3RDIGLBL

Have any of you installed a system in a small town? Wondering what to think about when choosing camera locations. Getting camera windows blanking so no one says the camera are looking into there apartment? Would like to propose an all IP solution as this would make the most sense. The town is really only one Main street so maybe 4 or 5 cameras could cover the area pretty well. They recently had a designer light pole ripped out by a truck in the middle of the night and it's a $12k replacement cost. What would you recommend for transmission? Maybe recommend that the NVR be setup at the Police Department so they alone have full access to it? So many questions If anyone can help me think this through it would be greatly appreciated. I'm not new to CCTV but for something like this I am. I'm not sure if the town will go for it but it's worth a shot. Thanks

I admit I am knew with the IP technologies but have been learning fast in order to start the push into that area. I purchased a NUUO Hybrid solution using the IP+04 NVR software and the Hardware H.264 4 channel card. I got it all running fine and I to start with integrated one analog (Panasonic CP484) and two IP cameras (1 ACTi 1.3mp and Arecont 5mp). It's amazing to see the quality when the analog and megapixels are sitting side by side. Anyhow.........The analog as you can image shows nice fluid live view motions no matter if I'm waving a hand full speed or walking through the room. The IP cameras though (we'll leave the ACTi out for the moment as it is remote right now) primarily the Arecont is pretty much un-usable. Unless the subject stops for a second they are complete blur. The still picture (no motion in the room) is to die for but for actual usable motion ist is downright horrid. Reading around I tried adjusting the shutter speed and as you can imagine it will darken the room in lower light and really only yields a slight improvement in live view motion. It's basically like seeing my hand wave but my fingers look like rubber LOL!!!! and on the quality setting which has a really awesome picture the motion is a complete blue. Now I suspect it is probably my computer but I am only running a couple cams and it still does it even when only running one IP cam. I have an older P4 HT running at 3.08GHZ and a Quatro video card. But my argument in my mind is since this is a hardware compression card the PC should be able to handle this? The live view shows this blur and it carries over into the recorded video as well. The analog camera other than not having nearly as good a picture at least has a nice fluid recorded video. I need some more ideas as I'm sure there is experience with this issue that may have been overcome by something I have not thought of yet. Thanks.

You're welcome. Let us know if you find a U.S. supplier if would be nice to have the source if anyone else needs any at some point.

something like this? http://www.sallas2.com/ I tried googling keyboard tray arm industrial and came across this site. Maybe you can find others as well. Hope this helps give you a boost in your search.

How about for Hybrid Systems? Any positive experience in that area? Thanks

I'll give Video Insight a try when I get back to the office. Thanks for the suggestion as it will at least provide me another piece of software to try. I unfortunately have not had much luck with adjusting the Arecont camera settings other than the basic setting presented from the web interface. I can not get the Arecont Vision software to run on two computers I have. I've re-downloaded it and uninstalled and re-installed. When I start up the viewer it is stuck in an endless loop trying to startup. No error no nothing so I have no idea what is causing it not startup. Unfortunately I want the software so I can dig into the camera settings. I've tried adjusting the shutter speed but had no luck with that. I also setup the NUUO software to least quality and even half res but that did nothing to curb the issue. The way it is I don't know why anyone would install this camera as it is useless for motion. I will have the ACTi at the office on Monday to try that one with motion otherwise it is completely remote right now so I can't test it the same way. Thanks for the quick reply. Do you have experience with NUUO? So far it seems fine to use but I only messed with it for a few hours last night.

This was a couple years back but we did a job that we thought would not work out and after a couple trips to the customers we were successful. He has a long driveway (over 1000') and he wanted a camera at the end of the driveway to try and capture the person destroying his mailbox. We were the only ones bidding as the other businesses they called said it could not be done. LOL! Anything is possible. Anyhow, the only cable they had was a telephone company service cable that had 2 unused pairs. Our first issue was how to get power over 1000' over a single pair and not only power the camera but also the heated enclosure....We accomplished that using a 24V AC source at the house and using a 12V enclosure with a 12/24V camera and a voltage regulator. By george we got it working and it has been for two years and they also got the suspects! The video used a single pair as well and a power balun. This customer only wanted one camera and this is what they wanted it for! They wrote us a great email for the job done and are very happy with it.

Is there any reason why you don't use dipmap? GV has a DDNS service you can install along with the rest of optional installs on the cd.

Well I approached the town and they kind of laughed at the idea of having cameras around their little town. So what I am currently looking for in the town is a good central location to mount a PTZ and a wireless transmitter/receiver. My office is about 1 mile by way of the crow from town center. I figured if I hook up with one of the many business owners in town whom I know then maybe they will be receptive to placing a camera on the outside of their business. I'll provide access to the camera for the PD for a period of time and try to sell them on the idea through trial. This project won't happen right away as I have too many self promotion projects in the pipeline as it is and money don't grow on trees!!! This is something I would like to try though. Thanks for all the great responses, I think many folks benefited from it.

Well this customer is in a stand tight mode so I have no idea if this job will happen or not. Most customers I run into nowadays are using this stand tight approach. Tough out there folks. Hey Vadsys, I don't see an attached file.

I second a Keri solution. I've installed this: http://www.kerisys.com/pages/products/nxt/NXT-system.asp Used a PC to program it and then can run standalone, however, the customer keeps a PC running in order to have full remote capability. They can add new users from any of there office buildings or from home. They also have full control of the doors from anywhere over IP. Keri has great tech support and they have training for installers as well. They helped me without hesitation for every question I had and I have a happy customer who states it has been running flawlessly. Good luck.

Hey this is neat. I have not seen this before and sure would make a project such as this so much easier especially if all that is needed is control for the garage door. Thanks for the great link coolie11. I'm putting this in as a favorite

I believe a typical garage door opener just needs a momentary switch to activate it. I have not actually done this but I have been able to operate a fuel pump using access control. I would think you could run a pair of unused normally opened contacts from your controller to the same contacts on your garage opener that the push button switch would normally connect to. You could use a door sensor to detect when the door is closed. So when the door gets opened this sensor detects the door is opened and after a preset amount of time if the sensor still detects the door opened then have the door close. I run a similar setup with the fuel pump. I use a momentary push button switch connected to the door contacts. When the user pushes the switch then the pump turns off but if the user forgets to stop the pump it will automatically shutoff after 8 minutes. Definitely can be done. I use Keri Systems NXT series which is an IP capable system. My customer likes it because they can do everything remotely like start the fuel pump for someone who may not have a card to do so. They have been very helpful to me and I'll continue using the Keri Systems units. Not sure if I have been of any help at all.

Well I just suffered through a grueling 45 hour electrical code course. The course was 6 weeks and I learned a whole bunch......now a couple questions which may spread into more I'm sure. Code calls for grounding to be done on outdoor installations before entering the building. My instructor says that all my camera installations must be grounded before they enter the building................HOLY CRAP is he serious. I can not imagine that people run a separate equipment wire to each outdoor installation that is done. He also said that my aerials should be grounded on each side at the box they terminate in. Are there BNC grounding butt connectors? A connector where you could actually connect an equipment grounding wire to so that the shield of the cable is grounded. Code states that you are not suppose to run any cable directly on top of drop ceilings. It must be properly secured above the drop ceiling to a rafter or something like that....Wouldn't this defeat the time saving practice of snaking a cable across the ceiling grid with long fiberglass rods or pulling the cable with a fishing line cable shooter. If you have to pop each tile and secure the cable above in order to meet code then it's a waste to buy these tools for making life easier. How do you all handle this? If this is how the code is interpreted then I find violations in every single building I've been too. I told my instructor that I haven't seen one install done by way of code then...He just kind of shrugged his shoulders because he knows this is low voltage and video cable but it's what the code states. Hopefully I did not open a huge hole here but maybe it'll get some good conversation going about proper code practice or maybe the response will be "F" the code

No but I have quoted out a job that was to use these. It was a car dealership where they wanted to have cameras in the service garage bays. I selected these as the device to use in order to get the cables from one side of the firewall to the other. They look to be pretty good and provide a very professional means of getting through the firewall. They look easy to use as well. ------------------- So ya I do know what the code says and I do understand the need for safety. What I am saying is if we were to follow the code all the time (which we should) then the cost of doing install really goes up due to the all the added time following the code. Actually using the wire supports of the drop ceiling grid as support for wires is also against code (thought I'd throw that in). Following the code like this really makes useless all the wire fish rods and such for getting wire across a drop ceiling. One would have to pop each tile in order to support the cable (adding time), also install hardware to support the cable (time and cost)......in the end it could really add up and make or break a deal. If your competitor goes in and bids much lower than you and he doesn't follow code then it's hard to justify to this customer why your cost estimate is much higher....you're doing the right thing and lose work because of it. No wonder so many including the big guys never follow the code, or seldom do anyhow.

Man I could have used this on my last job. The bundle of cable I had going through rafters and such were huge and a real pain in the @$$. Thanks for links for this stuff scorpion. This doesn't really help me for the small single cable or maybe two that I have to run on top of the drop ceiling though. When it's just a small business who doesn't want to pay much for a CCTV install I've just been running the single cable or two directly on top of the drop ceiling. I figure if electricians can run their cables directly on top (YA see this all the time!) then it's ok for me to do it Code says this is a big no no though and definitely a no no with electrical cable.... I assume that this is pretty much the norm with most of you then. Run the Siamese cable directly on top of the drop ceiling, especially for a small job with a few cameras seems to be the norm?

How far have you successfully gone with a CAT5 where you have power going over a double pair? I've done a really short run at the office where I put my own pigtails on the CAT5 for power but I only did like 30 feet or so. It worked but I imagine with the small guage of CAT5 conducors that running power over long distances would really create a massive voltage drop considering CAT5 at 24AWG. I'm speaking of using a standard 12VDC or 24VAC powersupply without having to make any power adjustments. I have to admit though that we have done an out of the ordinary install at a customers where other CCTV installers told them it was impossible. They have a 1500 foot driveway and the customer was getting there mailbox vadalized. We added a 12V heated enclosure and a box cam to a pole near the mailbox and ran power and video over the long service cable that was there. We are happy to report that the system has been running for over a year now trouble free and we have a happy customer. Power was achieved with a 24VAC power supply at the source end and we stepped it down to 12V at the camera end. It allowed for voltage drop along the way and anything in excess of 12 volts was stepped down to 12V. We do not do this practice all the time as we can see potential problems with this and the customer was well aware of that but surprisingly everything has been running without issue.

Hi Soundy, I was wondering the same thing. Are people more or less moving to CAT5 in order to support future expansion or technology upgrades. You answered that part as I was thinking of doing the same moving forward for those customers who on the edge of spending that extra for IP or especially for those that want hybrid DVR's. Hybrid DRV's is what's driving us to consider moving the direction of CAT5 if the customer is receptive to future upgrades... When you are running your CAT5 I assumer you have to run a separate 18/2 with each CAT5 or for each camera attached to that CAT5? How are you handling power if you don't have the fortune of having power at each camera location?

So do most folks use a standard Security CRT instead of an LCD? Computer LCD monitors are cheaper than security CRT monitors. OR....Do folks just tell their customer that they will find that the LCD monitor will not show a clear picture representative of the actual recorded video. I've shown customers in the past some video footage to prove that the picture showing live does not affect the recorded video. Unless they will be sitting in front of the DVR all day, like a security guard may do, that a standard LCD will be much cheaper and will satisfy their requirements for a small business or residence. I run into the same LCD issues as I stated in one of the other posts.

So as we all know it is cold everywhere, well except CA! I think I gotta replace my thermometer at home because I snapped pictures of it this morning before the sun rose and it showed -48F!!! The thing has got to be broken so I'll be replacing that this week! I do know that you can't breath when outside, it is so cold darn cold that you choke on your own breath....CRAZY! Anyhow, to the point, I climbed a ladder yesterday afternoon to put one of the small bullet cameras I'm trying out to the test. I figured well if I'm going to test one in the cold this is the time. I am happy to report that it ran all night and this morning it is still running. This small camera is a Messoa SCR351Pro....I can vouch that this one will run even though it is only rated at -10c like most of them are. I have a couple others to test out as well but I will not be able to get to it for a few days. update........I guess my thermometer is not broken, others near me report the same temp this morning...................CRAP IT'S COLD. Record here since the 1940's

I've always installed outdoor heater/blower enclosures around here and all have worked very well for me even down to the sometimes cold winter temps of -40F. I need to find an inexpensive bullet cam that can do this. I know Extreme CCTV can but man that option is WAYYYY to darn expensive for what I am trying to do. Has anyone tried a regular IR Bullet cam in really cold temperatures successfully? I've seen them installed around here from time to time but I have not stopped in to these venues to ask if they have problems during the coldest of temps. I even saw a gas station with a lipstick cam installed!! I have photos of my thermometer at -36F last year which I think may have been the coldest day but the year before I saw -40F. Thanks for any of your experiences. Cold weather adds challenges that those in the warmer climates do not have to contend with.

Thanks for the reply Soundy. I'm nearly drawn a final conclusion that these cheap low end DVR's really live up to the cheap price. The only thing I have yet to do was to do a side by side bench comparison between a few hundred $$ embedded 4 channel DVR and a $1000 plus 4 channel DVR to really see if there is a quality difference. I'm not totally convinced yet I have to spend a crap load of money on a good name brand DVR when there is probably a really good no name brand one out there that can visually easily compare in record and display quality. Someone PM me if they've done a comparison like this and settled on such a low end beast. I'd be curious to try one. I can't possibly try the hundreds upon hundreds of the low end crap out there.

Soundy, can you please PM me a DVR that you speak of above that has this selectable VGA resolution? I'm at wits end with this DVR and LCD issue. Makes no sense to me why I can't get a nice picture on a standard PC LCD Monitor. Thanks

Thanks for all the great advice and suggestions. I will be digging deeper into the suggestions mentioned here. I'll post back with what we've decided to do. Thanks thewireguys, I will take you up on your offer at some point.

Gotta rekindle this. sorry! I need a budget lcd monitor that will display a clean picture representative of the DVR live view. I'm just not getting this part. I find it crazy purchasing a dedicated security LCD monitor which costs twice as much as the DVR it is connected to. A lot of DVR's have a VGA connection for a PC based monitor. My CRT provides a very acceptible picture for the low end DVR I got but connecting it to the ACER LCD does it no justice at all. The picture is all pixelated and well...........is a total mess and does not represent the actual picture the DVR provides. Think I'll just send this thing back.....I was working on a project to try and piece together a good quality budget system for those DIY customers but I will just end up getting phone call after phone saying how crappy the picture looks when in fact it doesn't look as bad as what they are viewing on the LCD.