CCTVKING

All of the major manufacturers of tape recorders have already ceased the production of tape recorders, including the units used in the CCTV market. Due to the strict component (hazardous materials) demands placed by the EU and now followed by the United States, tape recorders will be extinct within the next 6 months from all the major manufacturers. One of the largest suppliers of tape recorders in the CCTV market (Sanyo) is currently running on nothing but inventory which is rumored to run out by the begininng of 2006.

Seems like your way behind in your knowledge of some units. Sanyo's "buffer time" of retrieved video was an issue over 2 years ago. They have since changed their software and there is no more then 2 seconds buffer time to retrieve any stored video. The "Atari" system that you claim is installed in more casinos then almost any other DVR manufacturer in the country. I have installed almost 1,000 of their units myself and have had a TOTAL of only 4 come back in 14 months with hard drive failures. I have installed enterprise systems as well, but we are talking about 2 totally different systems. One of the main obstacles in Las Vegas is the "8-hour repair time" regulation which states ANY failure of a digital surveillance system must be repaired within 8 hours. Many of the casinos simply do not have a staff that is technically capable of repairing a higher-end system, let alone do it in 8 hours. Sanyo's casino DVR system is indeed a "transition technology" in the gaming market. It allows the casinos to exit the tape recorder world and enter the digital arena at a low cost that will pay for itself within a matter of a couple of years.

CCTVqueen - Are you my wife? I designed and installed dozens of large casino in Vegas and tribal applications. I have used Bosch, Pelco, AD, Honeywell, and Sanyo. Your comments regarding Sanyo's DSR-M810 being "grainy" cannot be accurate unless you have a problem with the install. While Sanyo's box is not as sexy and advanced as the enterprise systems, their picture quality is indeed FAR BETTER. In fact, you cannot even tell the difference between live and playback. Add in the low price, and it's a hard box for many casinos to pass up. As you probably already know, Sanyo has over 70 casinos installed with this unit. You may be referring to the DSR-M814 QUAD unit. Ask Brian James about it.

Sanyo has the DSR-M810 and DSR-M814 single-channel and four-channel digital recorders that work very well for this application. They have also added a new software package that is specifically designed for this market. It includes an archiving system that will store all audio, video, and paperwork from case files. Meaning, you could include video from the DVR, audio from multiple different sources (including hand-held devices), and even scanned paperwork all retrievable from the software. I have bid the system to a local jail and the price is considerably lower then other systems that do not offer as much.

Most manufacturers have already released official letters explaining this fact. You can request one from whatever manufacturer you buy through. It makes a great sales tool in upgrading to DVRs.

blowrabbit - as I stated in my last post, I have installed several of the Tiger units. I sent you a PM.

kandcorp - It is not just Sanyo, it is EVERY major manufacturer of tape recorders. This is not a choice, it's a demand placed by the EU and now followed in the states. There is a "hazardous" or "dangerous" materials as specified by the EU, and therefor, cannot be sold into the EU. The US followed along with the spec once it was obvious that the manufacturers were not going to reengineer their tape recorders. Again, ALL the major manufacturers have shut down their production. I believe the deadline in Europe is 2006 (cease all manufacturing) and the US is late 2006.

kandcorp - It's not only true, it's already happened. Ask you manufacturer of tape recorders if you are hesitant in believing if this information is accurate. I am looking at a latter from Sanyo who specifies that their inventory will only last them until about February.

Securitymaster - IYou've got your Sanyo DVRs mixed up Sanyo's "Tiger" model is not approved in ANY of the regulated areas of the casino. The "Tiger" was never intended for that application. However, Sanyo's DSR-M800 series of DVRs are approved by all governing bodies within the gaming market. From what I heard, Sanyo's DSR-M800 digital recorders are in more casinos then any other manufacturer. The "Tiger" is much different then the Cheetah. It comes with 120fps and storage capabilities that exceed 1TB per bay. There is also an additional storage device, and free "Spider" software that is able to effectively link multiple sites through the software which can be user customized. The bottom line is that the "Tiger" is one of the closest embedded boxes I have seen to an enterprise system. I'll take the Sanyo DVRs over GE any day of the week and twice on Sundays. I purchased and installed my 60th multi-channel Sanyo DVR in September and had a TOTAL of 2 failures between all of the 60 installs. One was a hard-drive failure and other was an easy fix with a firmware upgrade. The Sanyo regional sales manager even met me at the job site on a Saturday to make sure the firmware upgrade solved the issue. I installed 78 GE multi-channel DVRs last year and had a total of 21 failures. 9 of which required more then 3 visits to the site and several returns for repair. The assistance from GE during this time was horrible.

No manufacturer is willing to disclose their failure rates to customers. The only way of obtaining an accurate "failure rate" is by reviewing the information from their warranty repair department. This also means that DVRs that were not sent in are not calculated. However, after GE's aquisition of Kalatel, many "things" have happened and this type of information became readily available. Thus, DM had no issue releasing their failure rate considering it became common knowledge that their largest competitor was more then double. When GE landed the large Starbucks deal, their failure rate even exceeded the 8% mark. I agree that DM's customer service and support needs some work. They are heavily distribution based with the vast majority of their sales through ADI and the remainder through the larger distribution accounts such as NAV.

Your wrong rory, their are many DVRs that have a browser based utility that is pushed out from the DVR itself, meaning no software to install on your PC. GE's DVRs are easy to operate but horrible in the reliability department. GE's DVR failure rate in 2004 topped all the large manufacturers at a whopping 8%. Dedicated Micros, who sells just as many in the US, if not more, was a little more then 4%.

The "Tiger" is a nice machine. 120fps, built-in CDRW/DVD burner, built-in Compact Flash. It also has a Region of Interest (ROI) feature that I have seen in enterprise systems such as NICE. It gives you the ability to further compress other areas of the picture where picture quality is not needed. The unit then allocates a larger amount of picture quality to the selected "region of interest". The free software is very powerful. You now have the ability to use the advanced software that can "interlink" units from any location, or use the simple browser-based interface that does not require any software. Sanyo has really stepped it up. They also just released their first PTZ's. It has a 520-line Sanyo color camera in all PTZ configurations for LESS then Pelco, AD, and Ultrak.

The unit is sold. As of March, all I use are the Sanyo DVRs. Their new DSR-3716 "Cheetah" and DSR-5016 "Tiger" are very reliable DVRs. I have not had a single unit go bad in 45 installs. The new "Tiger" unit is black and has a CDRW/DVD built in and also has a new software (free) that is very elaborate. It has a very enterprise feel, but in an embedded box.

There is no difference as of today. Sanyo just released their new "Cheetah" and "Tiger" DVRs. Over the last 6 months, the 3506 used their newer platform while their 9 and 16 channel units were waiting to be sold off so that they can introduce the new "Cheetah" and "Tiger" DVRs. They now have the 6, 9, and 16 channel all of the same platform. Sanyo's new "Tiger" DVR with FREE "Spider" software is an excellent unit. Imagine a hybrid, PC-based system in an embedded box.

JPEG2000 is Wavelet. Sanyo has had JPEG2000 in some of their products for a few years now.

You won't be able to put any mux into the M800 series recorders from Sanyo. They were made to be single channel replacements for Sanyo's casino market. The MPEG2 compression will not allow a mux signal. The unit is the best on the market for storage, picture quality and ease of use for a single-channel solution. On a 240gb hard drive, you can store 14 days of video at 30fps and 720x480 quality, all in a half-size chassis DVR. That is remarkable for a digital recorder. However, the mux interface is an issue for non-casino applications.

The best way to get a Sony manual is by calling SANYO. They make all of Sony's tape recorders.

AVConsulting - good points. There is light at the end of the tunnell with the current "structured selling philosophy" that is bringing the market down. Some manufacturers are aware of this and I have been consulting on some "no brainer" changes. The key is for manufacturers is to establish a legal dual class of trade operation which seperates the way they sell to the distribution and integration channels. Integrators will receive better pricing on specified "integrator" products while distributors will be contractually obligated to not go below a minimum selling price. This is very similar to the way a large majority of the computer industry operates in large chain stores. You can go to the three different retail stores looking for the same HP printer and the price will rarely be diferent. As many of today's manufacturers expand and increase their technical support operations, they are essentially feeding right into the distribution game without knowing about it. The complexity and level of technical aptitude needed to support todays products are extensive. Integrators are taking the right steps in hiring IT professionals and employees who can effectively support the products they sell and install. At the same time, they are increasing the costs of their infrastructure needed to maintain operation of their company. Distributors realize this and are able to undercut open bids and then outsource the labor to a number of unqualified installers. Distributors are also turning more into "order takers" that no very little about the products and are armed with all of the manufacturers tech support phone numbers that they immediately distribute if any questions are raised by their customer. Manufacturers continue to add more tech support capabilities which are giving distributors free "after the sale" support and an open door to compete with integrators. There are many ways to combat these growing issues while making the playing field benificial for both the inegration and distribution channels. Unfortunately its going to take a collaborative effort by at least 4-6 of the major manufacturers to agree on, follow, and enforce. Many manufacturers products are slowly being filtered into the hands of a few select distributors who do not mind making 3-5% margin while offering no support to the customer after the sale. This is a channel of sales that is doomed to fail and cost much more to the manufactuer unless changes are made.

While I completely disagree with Panasonic's direct sale to the New York New York casino, it was not a typical CCTV sale. Panasonic's CCTV division was brought into the job after their consumer division was awrded the sale of all the televisions, radios, phones, etc in the hotel rooms. The consumer portion of the sale was on a direct basis which forced the CCTV division to either sell direct or lose the sale. Sanyo's only direct sale was the Home Depot project, which was an entire CCTV industry affair. Every major CCTV manufacturer was on the bid list and the only way to bid the project was on a direct basis. Sanyo was not even the lowest bidder but their package which included superior cameras won them the job. Bosch is not an angel by any means. They have done countless direct sales to casinos and then gave a small "commission" to an integrator (usually GSA) to make the sale look clean. They have done an excellent job in keeping it all a secret and cameflouged with the "commission". It will take a lot more time for many of the manufacturers to sell direct on a consistant basis. The larger players such as GE and AD will be the first. They not only have a complete solution that spans every protection platform (CCTV, fire, burg) but also their own finance companies which gives them a major edge with dealing on direct basis with end-users.

rory - you seem to be LOST in the Bahamas. I am looking at the most recent price sheet for both GE (Kalatel) and Sanyo. Sanyo's pricing is far less then GE and with a much better warranty program. MetzLyov is the real-deal and runs a very successful CCTV business in southern California. MetzLyov - The Regional Manager from Sanyo speaks highly of you. Do you talk to him often?

All of the Home Depots nationwide use a combination of Sanyo and GE. The Home Depot bid was over 2 years ago and was well over 7 million dollars in CCTV products. Sensormatic is by far the largest player in the retail market. They own upwards of 70% of the tag business in most retail chains. This allows Sensormatic to create "package" deals to bring in their other products. In most cases, they will give the retails chain free tags if they buy their cameras, dvrs, etc. Sensormatic has specialized in POS systems as well as complete solutions for the retail market which makes them very appealing to the retail platform. However, many of their products have been sitting idle in advancements while other manufacturers surpassed the capabilities of Sensormatic's "retail specific" products. The majority of the large "chain" retail jobs are going to be sold directly by the manufacturer in the future. The large retail outfits have become more aggressive in the price requirements and are demanding that the manufacturers sell direct at their lowest price. 5-10 years ago, it was agreed by the major players in the industry that no one would sell direct. Today, everyone is playing by themselves and thus, ruining the market for everyone.

The Sanyo DVR's come with the LAN Card. It also has a built-in compact flash port for quick retrieval of video. Compact flash cards now go up to over 3gb, much more then a CD. I don't know who gave you that quote but they are wrong. Sanyo does not sell any of their 9 or 16-channel units without hard drives. The $2,900 figure is also ridiculous. You can get a 9-channel, 500gb for under $2,500. A 9-channel 80gb runs about $1,000.

3-year DVR warranty is the norm. However, if Sanyo's DVR requires a repair during their warranty period, Sanyo pays for overnight shipping to their facility, they fix the unit within 24 hours, then ship it back to customer via overnight shipping - all paid for by Sanyo during the entire warranty period. If the customer needs a loaner unit during the repair, Sanyo ships it out overnight at no charge and will even have a rep readily available to assist at the jobsite if needed. The best warranty is one that you do not have to use. In over 37 installs, I have had one Sanyo hard drive fail. Not bad.

As far as DVR's there are many that record in MPEG2. Contrary to some of the comments in this thread, MPEG2 does not need a lot of drives for storage. Depending on the algorithm used, MPEG2 can take up far less space then other compression technologies. MPEG2 is basically a "refresh" technology that updates at predetermined cycles upon specific change. Example: Sanyo's DSR-M810H600 is a single channel digital recorder with MPEG2 compreesion and a 600gb hard drive that was designed primarly for use in casinos. This half-size chassis unit can record 35 days of 30fps at a crystal-clear resolution of 720x480.

Don't let anybody tell you different - DM digital recorders are some of the best in the business. Dedicated Micros has grown from a small company just 5 years ago, to one of the largest manufacturers of DVR's in the industry. However, Dedicated Micros is heavily distribution based and their integration type support lacks that of GE (Kalatel). When dealing with the new generation of CCTV which involves more complex products, the installer needs to have the adequate support from the manufacturer. That is why we see dozens of no-name companies go in-and-out of business every year. The lack of support AFTER the sale is what digs the graves of the "no-name" companies. Whatver DVR you choose to use, make sure they can support their products in any scenario AFTER the sale. This is one of the main differences between the small "no-name" companies and some one like Pelco, Panasonic, Sony, Sanyo, and Deicated Micros One of the primary DVR's I support is the Sanyo DSR-3000 series. The price is almost $1,000 less then DM or Kalatel and the warranty covers everything including any shipping costs to and from (overnight) their facility if anything goes wrong. If I have an installation where a DVR goes bad, I can get an immediate advanced replacement and the local rep will even come out to the install and assist if needed. Their tech support is excellent and the unit is very reliable. I have had one unit with a bad hard drive in over 37 digital installs.