surf1div1

Hi Rory, and thanks again for your continued support- I really appreicite this forum's patience for those of us end users really trying to get as much feedback as we can prior to putting this together. OK- so, based on your feedback, that won't work- I really am trying to stay away from the IR. One, there's the additional issue of where to put it which in order to reach 75' I'm anticipating a whole lot of LED's and the glow that comes with it. Candidly, I would rather not try and do this on the cheap/budget. Though, my wife is saying that the car just isn't worth spending a lot of money in equipment to deal with this. I've tried relocating the car in front of the mailbox, but it is a hassle (mail-man, parking my other car (I need to get rid of that RV, but the wife likes her 'comforts') Given my druthers, can you contrast some model #'s you would suggest, and possibly suppliers here that you or anyone else would support for the camera's your suggesting. Also, some Day/Night 1/2' you would consider. Since I'm getting it in my head (ok, for tonght I am) that a bullet won't cut it, i DON"T want a box camera(discreet goes out the window) which brings us to either the Wiz Kid or the Extreme in a Dome- what is the difference in cost? Whew...thanks Rory- Surf1

Hi Rory, I thought what I would do is take a shot with my Minolta without the flash- Based on the picture here, would a camera like this work: http://www.cctvspecialty.com/1soexcobuca.html It is a Bulltet day/night by Sony 1/3" with the Ex-View but instead of the standard lens, using one like your suggesting- possibly a varifocal 3-12MM. Here is the webpage of the street for you to check out: http://spaces.msn.com/members/surf1div1/PersonalSpace.aspx?_c01_photoalbum=showdefault&_c02_owner=1&_c=photoalbum As you can see I'm still trying for that stealth factor and low profile. I'm curious if the dome by wiz kid would do it and do you feel that Dome's would be better then the bullet that I've listed above. If you could contrast the advantages for the dome vs. a camera like the one above. Thanks again.

Thanks Rory for the feedback. Back to perm... Surf1div1

Yes, that was how we narrowed down who vandalized it. It went off and after checking what caused it, one of our neighbors id'd the culprit. Also, one thought that I might consider would be the feasability of using that RV in the driveway to possibly use something less discreet poking out through the window, but using the house batteries in the RV to power it. I'm not sure that this would have an advantage other then getting me 25' closer and using the cover of the RV to monitor the house/car. I would lose the permanent aspect, but I might have better coverage by using a decent temp mount within the motorhome and having the cover of the smoked glass to see out to monitor the house in the current position in the driveway. Is that far-fetched?

VST...while I understand the rational, this specific vandal is targeting my stuff for a reason-a revenge one, so he's not going down the street (as in a crime of opportunity). I just want to have the evidence to document it beyond a reasonable doubt. Also, how discreet do you think a camera would be using the cover of the eave? Thanks again... Surf1div1

Hi VST...I'm answering within your message- The frequency of the vandalism since this one individual did this has been over 7 months since he was arrested, and since then it has stopped. But, I'm looking for coverage in the future when he end's up going to court and I testify. Currently theirs a warrant for his arrest (do you believe it? They can't just go to where he's living and arrest him, they have to have "cause" to pick him up. I've checked with the DA and the local police can't just knock on his door unless they have probable cause- go figure) Whew... thanks again for you feedback and any future help- two heads are better then one, and I'm greatful for suggestions as to the setup of this so that I can make an informed purchase. Surf1div1

Thanks for your feedback...I had read on this forum (and it's been awhile back) that $75 per camera was fair, but you've raised some issues that take into consideration as you stated insurance, etc. With the overhead going through someone, yes, that could be too little. I'm not sure which is why I posted pictures to determine what it would take (labor wise) and get the feedback that you've provided. One individual locally quoted $95 per hour, and I thought that was high, but knew that was the owner/operator. Optimatlly, and this is a consideration, I would like to get someone who's an employee of a company doing this for a living that would set the whole thing up and pay them approax what they would make at double their hourly and still come out ahead. If their paid $20 hourly and I pay them $40 for the overtime they would have to put in, would that be fair? But, who know's how long it would take to install two cameras on each end of the garage, one by the front, and the hardest one in the back yard? Thus the pictures to get an idea. Optimally I would want the entrance cam and the two front cam's in the front of the garage to be routed through that office you see in the middle just above the garage. Their's access from the garage directly into that room. The backyard would entail running conduit up along the wall into the atic and then routing through the attic into that office. That would take the most effort , unless using a wireless cam would suffice. The reason I say wireless, is because I have a motion detected light back there that when someone comes back there I would have lighting, and the depth of field is very limited off that area- about 16' deep by 40' across max and the need for a really highend cam would be of little need under those parameters. I'm open to suggestions from you fine people to feedback as opposed to pricing- actually pricing is seconary as I'm looking for system design first. Based on the options that are presented I can price accordingly. Thanks- Surf1div1

Hi, still searching this excellent source and have narrowed down the kind of camera I'm looking for to something black and white that would be on the corners of my home but recessed under the eaves that I want to have mounted that is as unobtrusive as possible. Does anyone have anything that they can recommend without me going with armored cable? I'm not interested in domes as they are too obvious in a exterior application and the cams I've seen appear to be more discrete. Thanks in advance

Hi Guys- I thought I would add to this original post here since the installer has gotten back to me re: some of the questions I have- Here is his response slightly edited (took his company name out for privacy) The cameras I've chosen are vandal-resistant, with very tough plastic bubbles. The part number is cc-3002-ir, which have infrared illuminators to ensure excellent night-time scene illumination. On the DVR issue, the requirement for greater than 4 camera capability is what is driving the price way up. Inexpensive 4-cam units have been introduced by many manufacturers, since they have the greatest potential distribution to small retailers, convenience stores, etc. However, reliable 9-cam units and up are pretty much a mainstream thing. A 9-cam DVR with a 160b GB hard drive that I would use for myself is going to run $1200, and it's a generic machine, not name brand. The name-brand units with the similar specs I have access to are: Bosch - $2200 GE Security - $2400 (10 cam, smaller hard drive) Pelco - $2300 (8 cam, not 9) Sanyo - $1500 (smaller hard drive by half) And all these prices are cost+10%, which is what I pay. There's a company in Burbank called VSSI that our company buys from periodically, and they have a brand called Nuvico that is supposed to be inexpensive with good features. I've got no direct experince, so can't vouch for the mfr, but it's an option. And VSSI is a well-established company with good customer service. They may not sell to you directly, because they're supposed to be a distributor only and protect their client base, but I know for a fact that people have bought stuff on a walk-in basis. I have seen a brochure on a tiny little pan/tilt camera, about 5 inches wide and 7 inches tall, that you may be interested in. It comes with a hard-wired remote on a 90-ft cable, but it's color and weatherproof. It's basically two tiny motors moving a little board camera in an aluminum housing, but I haven't seen anything else like it in the same price range of $750. It doesn't zoom in and has a fairly narrow field of view, but it might fit the bill for you. I'm sure who the manufacture is that he's referenced for the cams as he's only listed a part #, but possibly others are familiar, and with this forum, possibly someone has some feedback on (Nuvico) or this PTZ he's found. TIA- Surf1

Hi, I've recently discovered this forum and thought after reading through some of the posts that I would post my dilemna. I'm interested in help in suggestions as to what to purchase and possibly where to put a CCTV. I have a problem with a neighbor, or friends of them that are vandalizing my two cars that are parked on the street and would like some help with how to approach this. First, I would prefer a system(cameras) that were not obtrusive or in fact stealth in nature. I want to be able to identify who is doing it- that is the goal of the system- not to scare them off. I've made a police report, but as most are aware, without hard evidence, there's really nothing I can do. So far, over the course of 6 months I've had my new car's hood dented(which I wasn't sure was vandalism, but now believe) and then my new car egged. Recently, whoever did that probably drove my and threw a heavy canned food can at the side of the car setting off the alarm on that car. These acts(at least the most recent) are done at night, with the closet street light about 70' from our house. I have a 23-1/2 motorhome parked in the driveway that has on the sides smoked tinted windows that would give pretty close proximity to the one car parked against the curb(the newer one) and the van across the street(about another 30'). For stealth, I'm thinking of putting cameras in the motorhome and running a power cord to the motorhome going from the garage to the motorhome and setting up a decent DVR and cameras that would view through the windows in the motorhome. Since their tinted and the domes I've seen in a lot of the sites advertising cameras have the same shade, I 'think' that this would be ok. Also, the back of the motorhome comes up right against the garage door and the power cord wouldnt' be that noticeable (if they figured out that this was the monitoring station per se) The motorhome is alarmed full time with a paging feature so that if it was to be broken into, it would immediately signal us inside(if were home My other option is possibly replacing the motion detector light that goes off with one of the stealth camera's built into one of those same housing. Primarily, all I'm concerned about is the front of the house since I have a dog in the back yard and it's very protective and would not be something at this time I'm thinking that I "need" to cover with a camera. I also have a spare computer that I could configure for use as a DVR with upgrading the storage and replacing the video card. Currently, I'm not that interested in being able to monitor it off the net for security reasons, and my wife is a stay at home mom. Since being able to ID who's doing it is the primary criteria, I would like something with the quality and stealh to do it without announcing to the neighborhood that I've got these cameras- please post online as I prefer the dialog that comes about from suggestions and reasoning for what is being suggested. This is a great soucre for those of us considering a system. BTW, I live in California if that's any consideration. Surf1div1

RF modulator that allows me to monitor the cams on the TV inside. I don't have a link for the enclosure- and you've brought up a good point- the heat- since I'm in California, I'm not sure what kind of heat issues there would be it in the rafters. Once I get the specifics as to cams, and DVD recorder possibly this group will have some feedback as to what the limitations are of the gear, or suggestions for alternatives. Thanks,

Thanks Rory for your feedback, I'll cut/paste from your response on the questions I have, and thanks again for your feedback. "For vandalism and good quality, as well as discreet, the only real choice is a Varifocal Dome Camera. Several Companies sell these, such as Speco Provideo, Hunt, and i just bought one from Ameba to use on a job. WizKid has a literally undestructable dome, you can get in BW, fixed micro lens in a small housing, or a larger housing with a varifocal lens. All come in High Res Versions." If you were going for the above, but one that has the ability for better facial recognition, what would you suggest as to a model/manufacture? "DVR with full upgradable options, would really be a PC based. Im using the Iview PC Card and Im very pleased with them. Most stand alones will also allow you to change the HDDs though at least. AvTech has a 16 channel with removeable HDDs, its the cheapest on the market, fine for most home users. " Which stand alones are you referring to? I'm thinking of either a 4 or 9 channel as this is primarily residential. What the set-up of the home is we have two car's parked on either side of a residential street, and a motorhome parked in the driveway. The motorhome obstructs the view as you can imagine, which means that I'm considering putting a camera on either side of the garage on the first story. It's a two story home. Also we want to put a camera off the entrance to the home to see who's at the door. Currently we have a very good watchdog(Austrailian Cattle Dog) in the backyard that my wife believes could easily alert us to anyone coming in back of the home. The problem is that the individual who's doing the vandalism has a brother that has threatened their neighbors dog already, and don't want to depend on the dog if they should poison our dog-which wouldn't be beyond someone who would suggest that. My wife thinks it's overkill. Anyway, someone where I work who does this for a living has come up with the following, and would appreciate any feedback from the board based on what he has suggested. I'll paste that for your feedback, or anyone else- and thanks in advance for your help! For a surveillance system at your home, I recommend the following: 1: 4 vandal-resistant miniature dome B&W cameras mounted at the locations> indicated on the attached diagram. 2. 1 digital video recorder, network capable, mounted in a locking enclosure> in the rafters of the garage. 3. The wiring and hardware necessary to connect these devices.>> In addition, you will need the following: 1. A 120VAC power source, either by an electrical extension cord or a hard-wired electrical outlet in the area that the digital recorder is installed. 2. A run of network-compatible wiring to connect the digital recorder into the household network. 3. The option of an RF encoder and related equipment to insert the video output from the digital recorder into the household cable television system to enable instant viewing on any television in the house. Per our discussions, the digital recorder should have in excess of four inputs to allow for future expansion. The camera in the backyard will be the most challenging for wiring routing, due to the distance from the recorder and the nature of the contruction of the house. The wiring may have to be surface-mounted inside a raceway or wiremold for concealment and protection from the elements. Due to state law, I cannot perform work or provide equipment valued at more than $2000 unless I'm a licensed contractor. Therefore, I propose the following> arrangement. I will provide the cameras, related wiring, locking enclosure, power supplies, labor, and necessary hardware to install the equipment. I will connect the equipment, set it up, and test it. Due to the cost of the digital recorder and your concerns about warranty issues, I recommend that you should obtain the recorder directly from the distributor. I can provide guidance and recommendations as to which recorder will meet your requirements. By obtaining the recorder directly from the distributor, especially if you use a credit card, you will be better protected. The cost structure is as follows: Vandal-resistant B&W camera @ $195 ea., which includes cabling and power supplies. Locking 16 ga. steel enclosure @ $25, which includes mounting hardware. Misc. hardware, mounting equip., and other supplies @ $100.Installation labor fee @ $250 for the work outlined above, which will include initial installation, connection, setup, and testing of the equipment including the digital recorder. I offer these options: RF encoder (1 chan.) @ $150, which includes power supply, signal combiner, and necessary wire to insert video output from recorder into house cable system. The encoder would be set to an empty channel past the currently used spectrum,usually chan 85 or higher. Well that's it. I know that this individual is very capable of doing the job as the company I work for a huge Corporation and they chose the company out of any company. More importantly our work is banking related, so they can't do it on the cheap. This inidividual is the companies Lead Tech for our office which houses over 1000 people. That's it for now... Surf

Hi Rory, I'll respond within...

The budge I have would be hopefully under 2,000 US. When you refer to a quality box camera, would one of those Bosch day/night camera's fit the bill? Their products I've seen mentioned on this forum, but they have a 1/3" or 1/2" and am wondering the advantages/disadvantages to either of those sizes with any camera. I'll try again to reference what you have on your site, but the link in your post was working yesterday...I"ve drawn in paint a schematic, but am wondering how to post jpegs for viewing. TIA- Surf