Sawbones

Which cameras are those?

I like that setup... you can tell when your steaks are burning

The axis has much better color in that pic compared to the Pano.

Bluecherry looks like they want about $130 for that lens. Is it that good to be worth half-again the price of the actual camera?

Thanks man.... that camera is the best bang for the buck for indoors.... use it all the time. What lens are you using on that second picture, Hardwired?

I don't think anything will even come CLOSE to doing what you want in that price range. Sorry.

If it's only a couple of cameras, and their datastreams are not too huge, 10/100 is fine. I'm running 10+ megapixel cameras, in addition to a large network storage array, and I have an IP PBX that's going online shortly. Needless to say, I had to do gigabit.

3com makes a very similar unit, designed specifically for the purpose, and it can be had for the same price point. I use one such unit for testing, and it works like a charm. http://cgi.ebay.com/3Com-3CNJPSE-802-3af-Power-over-Ethernet-PoE-Midspan-PS-/290440253190?cmd=ViewItem&pt=COMP_EN_Networking_Components&hash=item439f968f06

I will only say that I've confronted this particular problem before. If you like, I can show you the solution I chose for one of my own weapons storage lockers (one that primarily stores ammunition)

A single network hard drive inside your safe should neatly take the place of a Goldenrod, since a goldenrod is simply a small heater element. The Goldenrods don't remove any humidity... they simply heat up the safe. The theory behind the goldenrod is to raise the temperature in your safe above the dew point... that is, that point at which water will condense on the guns contained within it (as long as the metal is above the dewpoint, water will not condense on the surface). It's not necessarily the atmospheric humidity that is so terribly harmful to stored weapons... it's the water that sometimes condenses on the surface of cold metal (for instance, a gun safe stored in a cold, damp basement). Elevating the temperature inside the safe retards rust. A single drive inside a decent-sized gun safe will raise the temperature within it, but it shouldn't cook the drive. In addition, it will frankly be to the benefit of your stored weapons to do this.

I just checked the power consumption on my switch (this is from the management console), and the port that serves my Acti 1231 is currently pulling 3.6 Watts. Now... remember that it's daytime here, and that camera will pull significantly MORE once it gets dark, and the IR LEDs turn on.

Depending on the size of the safe, and the power consumption of the network drive, that's not a completely unrealistic solution.

Just get a PoE switch, and don't mess with injectors. The camera is designed to take a standard PoE 48V. I'm using a Cisco/Linksys PoE switch with that exact camera: I also use a PoE switch for testing... a slightly different model: I tried one of the D-link injectors (probably similar price-point to the Linksys), and it didn't even last a year. Stick with actual switches, and I think you'll be much happier.

I'm going to disagree on the PC-based DVR point. PC hardware is a commodity item, and can be had dirt-cheap. It may not be as cheap as a low-grade DVR, but you maintain full control over the hardware, and have your choice of software. You can add or subtract encoder cards, add some IP cameras, easily expand your hard-drive space (1TB drives can be had for VERY little money these days... and are probably the same drives the embedded DVRs are using), add a network drive for remote/redundant storage, etc. You don't have to ship it to Taiwan to get it fixed, either. I went PC-based, and I'll never go back.

One thing you're going to want to avoid is the "system in a box." It's a full system, including DVR (usually low-grade), and 4 or 8 cameras (even lower grade). You'll find them at Sams Club, Costco, etc. First of all, some of those systems come with non-standard cabling, so changing out cameras or replacing the DVR is a real pain. Second of all, there is no single camera for every view you're going to want. Some cameras may need WDR (wide dynamic range... usually used for nasty backlighting situations, like catching somebody coming into a darker area through a glass or otherwise well-lit exterior door), while others may need to be IR sensitive, and some can simply be color area-coverage. Some cameras can be zoomed into a specific area (like a cash register, or high-dollar merchandise, etc. There is no "one perfect camera," so avoid the boxed system. You're far better off getting a quality DVR, and building your system piecemeal, with cameras chosen for the specific view you're after.

cglaeser speaks the truth on this one. Cameras systems are good. Believe me... I'm a big fan... but quality night images are very tough to come by with limited expertise, and consumer-grade hardware. Unless you get lucky, you're not going to see very much... and you have to carefully select cameras based on available lighting, and so forth. Catching somebody moving around at night is what separates the men from the boys in the camera world. The wireless alarm idea has real merit; I'm using it myself. Even though I have a serious alarm on my home, it only covers the building perimeter (windows, doors, etc), so I still use separate sensors outside the house to catch anybody screwing around. More specifically, this system: http://www.voicealert.com/ Their PIRs are not the greatest... but they have motion sensors, driveway sensors, and you can hack their transmitters into serving as remote alarm sensors for other applications: Here is a gate I alarmed: They even have motion sensors you can place on an object (or inside the pocket of a car door): Lots of options... be creative! And catch the bastards.

While he is at it, a shot of a properly focused pano, or least one captured on a decent DVR. That Pano is focused as well as it can be... and the image is taken directly off its attached Axis 241Q camera server. That image reflects a real-world image through that camera, with everything that entails, including dust and dirt and pollen on the dome surface (which was pretty dirty for that picture... just like it would be after about a week in an actual install) Here's the full-size, 3MP mobotix night image. It's set at a pretty fast 1/60 shutter speed, which degrades the image quality just a bit. Slowing the shutter makes this pic look a LOT better... but I'd rather sacrifice that to get better images of somebody moving through that area.

The mobotix camera was completely blind without the IR on that side of the structure... but so was the Pano. That side is extremely shaded, and there is no ambient light to speak of at night. You can't hardly grow grass there, because it literally doesn't get enough sunlight. Here is the Pano during the day: And the Mobotix (this is only 1.3MP setting... the Mobotix goes up to 3MP)

For a narrow area, where you can make the greatest use of your pixels, analog remains a good choice... particularly since bang-for-your-buck low-light performance is better. The IR that I'm using is coming from two illuminators. One is an Ebay illuminator that I expect to die any day... which is a shame, because it puts out a very nice, wide-angle IR beam: They tend to last about 6 months, after which they do this: The other illuminator is a supercircuits puck: I have an ExtremeCCTV cube ready to replace that Ebay special when it dies.

Do you have any comparisons? I havent seen a decent low light BW image from a MP camera yet, but maybe im missing something?? Sure. Top picture is a Pano 484S dome, and bottom picture is a Mobotix D12 with the L65 B&W imager. The individual you see is me in a hockey mask (don't ask...). If you look carefully in the right-upper corner of the Mobotix image, you can see the Pano dome; they're literally mounted a few feet from one another. Lighting conditions are identical, and are provided by two different IR illuminators. Pictures are taken a few minutes apart from one another. The original Mobotix picture is also MUCH larger, and has been resized to match the size of the Panasonic. Panasonic: Mobotix: You can see the low-light performance is pretty close. The WDR capability enhances the contrast in the top picture, maybe giving a slight edge to the Pano. Low-light is one of the only areas where analog matches or edges IP in performance terms.

I went from Analog to IP... and haven't looked back. And there's nothing wrong with the analog system I was using... I used good hardware (Axis encoders, and Panasonic WDR domes... which STILL have some of the best light-handling characteristics I've seen). It worked OK, but the resolution wasn't high enough to see what I wanted to see... and adding more domes to zoom in on separate areas was a no-go in my residential installation. I went over almost entirely to an Acti-and-Mobotix system, and have been very happy. I can read license plates now, where I couldn't before. The Mobotix B&W imagers have just as good of low-light response as the Panansonic domes, and the fine-tuning of shutter speed and such that Mobotix gives you puts those cameras head-and-shoulders above an analog system. There's no comparison between the picture quality either. Now given, Mobotix is three times the price... but you're also getting a lot more in terms of resolution, options... and their software is free. I'll also grant that my case is probably not typical. I already had a large gigabit-over-copper (with PoE) network in my home, and adding cameras was as simple as pulling cable, terminating it, and mounting the cameras. Not everybody NEEDS an IP-based system... but I've found that there are certain advantages.

Never had a problem with on-board video.

One of my acquaintances years ago had a similar problem... moron teenagers regularly went down the country road where he lived, playing "mailbox baseball." He grew steadily more pissed off every time it happened, and after he'd replaced his third or fourth mailbox, he went a little gonzo. Attached a post-hole digger to the PTO on his tractor, and sank a pre-fab concrete-and-rebar beam down into the ground, deep enough that the top was about mail-box-post height. He took more rebar, put forms around the beam, and poured concrete around a standard sheet-metal mailbox. He then put wood over top of the whole thing, and painted it pink-and-white like a giant birdhouse. Absolutely irresistible to a teenager with a bat. The next time they came down the road to take a swing was only about a month after he built it. They were going pretty fast, and the bat rebounded so hard that it broke the bat, and the teenager's arm. IMO he's lucky he didn't get into any legal trouble over that.

Wow... look at the weathering and corrosion.

A laptop and a pre-configured AP that you can plug into the network to focus network cameras? Absolutely invaluable: Alternatively, you can use wireless bridges: Having an easy wireless link to the camera through which you can focus and adjust the FOV is a huge time-saver.