Sawbones

Yeah... gotta disagree with your buddy. Soundy is right on. I'm on my third generation of CCTV in my home... started with a standard non-recording system, went to an embedded DVR, and am now moving to a PC-based NVR. Embedded systems are good for what they are, but your upgrades are very limited, you don't control the hardware or software, and once they're EOL'd by the manufacturer, you're SOL. Computing technology, storage density, and value/$ is advancing rapidly in the PC field... far more rapidly than the DVR field.

I like the reasonable price of the SMB version... except they restrict you to a single web client, they don't allow archiving to network drives, no PDA client... The single client and no network archiving are deal killers in my installation.

Are those cameras day/night? (eg. are they IR sensitive?)

I currently have a 9-channel Dedicated Micros DS2 (Netvu version), and it's not a bad unit. It's an embedded system, it's very reliable, and the Java web-viewing client is lightweight and provides full functionality (you never have to use the console). It also operates my PTZ cameras just as well as anything else... but it's not without its faults. In my opinion, the video quality could be better. It also is advertised to record 120FPS in whatever resolution, but attempting to push the FPS close to that limit causes the entire thing to bog down; the web interface becomes almost unusable. Servicing them can be a hassle, and they will expect you to send the unit back to dedicated micros to service it. It also won't be cheap (I found their tech support to be less than stellar, particularly as an end-user... they really weren't interested in talking to me). I had a hard drive die in mine, and successfully replaced it myself, though it took me a while to figure it out (but I did, and in the process I successfully quintupled my storage space... so take THAT, DM!). I voided the warranty in the process, but I don't like having hardware that I can't tinker with. It's also quite loud (the fans)... you wouldn't really want one in your workspace or office (mine is rack-mounted in a separate room in my home... it would be a painful distraction to have sitting next to you). There are a bunch of little things that I dislike about it... including the fact that they expect you to run an open mail relay on your network in order to receive email from the unit (it won't talk to a mail server that requires any sort of authentication... which is fairly poor in this age of email SPAM). Also, until the latest firmware revision, it didn't even require any sort of password or authentication to view the web interface... not exactly something built with an eye towards network security. I found that a bit ironic for a security-oriented product.

I think one of the caveats for self-defense in some jurisdictions is that you can't be in the process of committing a crime. The guy may have a shady past, but if these were a bunch of goons looking for some payback, I'd say they underestimated their opposition.

Well sure... it's pretty hard to look at that video and claim the guy didn't have a right to defend himself... especially with four armed men storming the house right there on tape. The home owner may be a criminal (or borderline criminal), but I don't think one can look at that video and reasonably argue that he wasn't in legitimate fear for his life.

What does IPconfigure get per channel for their NVR software?

So this shootout was red-on-red? That figures... many of these incidents turn out to be something like that.

Dedicated Micros uses Java for their web client... which IS nice (I'm a firefox user myself)... I just wish the video quality was better.

The HDs most certainly ARE removable. They're regular PATA drives; I've actually removed and upgraded the hard drives on mine. I did it the last time I upgraded the firmware. There are instructions on how to do it on this site... do a search and you'll find it.

I went through exactly this problem with my personal home. I began with day-night bullets, then from there to Speco "Intensifier" cameras (AVOID!), and from there to WDR domes with separate IR illuminators. Frankly, the latter solution has proven to be the most reliable, and has provided the best pictures. Camera-integrated IR is nice, in that it simplifies your install (less wiring, fewer holes to drill, fewer mounts)... but that's where the benefits end. It attracts bugs, shows the location of your cameras (unless you use the VERY expensive 940nm+ sources, and the VERY expensive cameras that are senstive to that spectral range), and provides about half the range that most of the manufacturers claim. Vandal domes that are day/night with an ICR (infrared cut filter) are probably your most cost-effective bet, unless you go with Mobotix, Arencont, or other high-dollar cameras that have separate imagers for day/night. Depending on the distance and area you need to cover, you'll have to choose your IR illuminators based on what you want. I did a review of some commonly-available Ebay illuminators (versus a big-bucks RayMax) a while back, and posted the pics: http://www.cctvforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=13935 I went all-IR because of some HOA rules, but you should know that you're almost always better off increasing your visible light rather than going all-IR. IR images are granier, only B&W, and are generally inferior to what you get with regular illumination.

Interesting... I learned something today... thanks!

The other posters are exactly correct.... PoE precludes GigE being used on the same run of Cat6, since one of the twisted pairs is taken up for power transmission and cannot be used for data (at least in the implementations that I've seen). Somebody may come up with a solution for that (perhaps something similar to powerline networking), but I don't know of any common conventional switches that do it.

They sure scattered like ****roaches when he started shooting... nice work on the homeowner's part

To their credit, they did refund my money the very same day I called them... and they actually do have a physical storefront, unlike most of the scam operations out there. But I know what you're talking about... I've likewise been burnt by the NY-Boiler-Room-internet-company thing before, though you usually find those on Ebay (I found one of them via Pricewatch one time). Those places operate out of a basement somewhere, drop ship from a third-party warehouse, offer no tech support, and refunds are incredibly painful to get. I generally avoid buying electronics or computer equipment from any NY-based internet retailer; I made an exception in this case. As for surveillance-video.com, I just didn't like how my transaction was handled, that's all. If there's a problem, or you can't meet the agreed-upon terms, you should contact somebody... you don't just cancel the order and keep their money until they contact you. If you screw-up, you should make it right.

I saw that... good thing the homeowner was armed and trained. Incredible video, and you can clearly make out the rounds coming through the windshield.

OK... here's the update: They never called me back... I had to get back in touch with them. Turns out the item wasn't in stock, and they were going to order it from Taiwan (item was a Nuuo encoder card). Shipping was going to be $72+, so they simply canceled the order without telling me, and didn't refund the money until I contacted them. It was only after I called that they noted their error. The customer service person I spoke with stated that she sent me an email two days after I got the "Your item has shipped" email. That email never showed up in my inbox, or spam folder. I don't know what sort of warehouse space these guys might have... but here's google's map (including street view) of their shop: http://maps.google.com/maps?q=387%20Canal%20Street%2C%20manhattan%2C%20ny&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wl They are actual dealers for a number of CCTV/alarm manufacturers (Crow, ExtremeCCTV, etc), but I wonder if they simply drop-ship some of their products, like many dealers on Ebay frequently do. Not the best shopping experience I've ever had (and certainly not the worst); I'm going to find another vendor for that encoder card. ****************** Edit ********************* They are a couple of companies and websites using the same NY address: www.canalalarm.com www.123securityproducts.com www.surveillance-video.com A private investigator agency Abco supply company

Funny you should mention that site; I recently ordered something from them, and they canceled the order without telling me, or any explanation. I received an email back in January telling me the item had shipped, but their item tracking didn't work... took me calling after two weeks of the item not arriving to find out that the item hadn't EVER shipped, and in fact had been canceled entirely (but they hadn't yet refunded the money). They were very nice when I spoke to their customer service people, and they're looking into it. I'll let you know what happens.

If you have the expertise in system building, there's no reason why you can't do it yourself. I've built plenty of desktops and servers (including some exotic water-cooled gaming monsters), but recently I've been trending towards smaller-and-quieter PCs. I'm one of those guys with a garage full of orphaned computers. I'm actually experimenting right now with some of the Lenovo (formerly IBM) small form-factor Thinkcentre desktops. They're a common ex-corporate desktop machine, and you can buy them off-lease on Ebay for a song (usually 200-500$ for a complete 2U-height computer, with anywhere from a P4 to Pentium D to Core-2-duo processors and up to four gigs of ram). They have integrated video, but also have two PCI slots or one PCI slot and one PCI-E slot, so you can add a video card if you need one. They also come with gigabit ethernet. I've got a couple that I'm experimenting with as NVRs... if they work, I'll post up some pics and specs.

You know what? You're right. I'm going to take a step back from my last post; Rebco probably didn't mean that the way it came across. Still, I don't blame a poster for coming here and laying out their experience with a vendor. If you can't get somebody to return your phone calls or pay attention to you any other way, what are you supposed to do? Coming here certainly beats getting a bunch of lawyers involved... and it may have actually helped the original poster resolve his issue. It took a bit of wrangling, but I'll give props to IC Realtime for at least recognizing the OP's issue and stepping up. As for the bailout 500... don't get me started on that unmitigated disaster.

Rebco is right on this one. If you don't have the slightest idea about any of this stuff, please don't DIY it.

Did you really just write that? That looks to me like an oblique threat of a lawsuit designed to intimidate a new poster into shutting up. We're going to track down your IP address and have our lawyers come find you? Is that how we do business here? Really? As we all know (or should know), it's not libel or slander if it's the truth. Why the presumption that this new poster is lying through his teeth, and thus deserving of a legal proctoscopy? Mind-boggling. I may be alone on this one, but I don't think it's very good business to drop a dime to your lawyer every time somebody complains about your customer service. That's nothing but intimidation and legal thuggery, and doesn't reflect well on the organization that chooses to do business that way. How does that serve the customer that may have a legitimate beef? How do you think that looks to other customers?

This is very good advice... please heed it. I say this as a non-dealer. Unless you have a significant amount of technical knowledge already, you're going to be completely in the dark about what you really need. If you don't understand camera specs, DVR specs, resolution, frame-rates, storage calculations, processing power required for motion detection and other analytics, IP-versus-analog, and so forth, you'll have great difficulty getting it right, and you'll make LOTS of mistakes... probably waste a lot of money in the process too. There comes a time when you should consult an expert, and this is one of those times.

Never knew if these were required or not... but here we go. I'm primarily a CCTV hobbiest. I have built my own analog system, and am now moving to an IP-based system. This stuff is loads of fun. I tinker with all things electronic and computerized... been a Ham radio operator for almost 20 years, and life-long computer geek (*nix OS's preferred). I'm also a military vet, and used those skills in the deployed environment (even built a gaming network on my last trip to the desert... and successfully kept it running despite our dusty/filthy tents, and almost-constant 20mph winds, much to the delight of my fellow medical corps members). My day job is in the healthcare arena.

I've noticed a slow-down as well. Perhaps the site is simply becoming more popular.