DVRS That Suck

[securitysys 0]

Everyone wants to know what's good, why don't we list what's bad!!

 

I'll start my list off:

 

It starts with a A ends with a H,

All AVTECH.

Most Dedicated Micros

99% Arm Electronics

 

I don't consider these DVRS but some do:

 

QSee

Swann

Lorex

Clover

 

And if one more client asks me why we charge 20X this

 

http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11273790&whse=BC&Ne=4000000&eCat=BC|

 

I'm quitting.

 

Nuvico seems like there stuff is pretty good, how ever they send out press releases to the general public the same time that they send it to the dealers. Their supports kind of confusing. And it seems like they like to release new products before expanding on their current bases, remember the XG?

 

I got more, but I want to let other people rant as well .

[Daryl733 0]

It's basically you get what you pay for.

You can't expect to pay peanuts and get cheetah right ?

You should group them into price range.

 

AVTech SUCKS at Network. Even the Newest model also sucks at network. But other than that, for standalone w/o network, it's quite ok.

 

Everyone wants to know what's good, why don't we list what's bad!!

 

I'll start my list off:

 

It starts with a A ends with a H,

All AVTECH.

Most Dedicated Micros

99% Arm Electronics

 

I don't consider these DVRS but some do:

 

QSee

Swann

Lorex

Clover

 

And if one more client asks me why we charge 20X this

 

http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11273790&whse=BC&Ne=4000000&eCat=BC|

 

I'm quitting.

 

Nuvico seems like there stuff is pretty good, how ever they send out press releases to the general public the same time that they send it to the dealers. Their supports kind of confusing. And it seems like they like to release new products before expanding on their current bases, remember the XG?

 

I got more, but I want to let other people rant as well .

[securicorp 0]

I have never had network problems with AVTECH DVR, its one of the reasons its our best seller, cheap and easy to set up although navigation of menu when using front panel and command delay on network AP could do with a little tweaking for usability.

[Smit9352 0]

I've had horrible luck with Av Tech dvr's as well. Tho T.O.M Tech is actually doing quite well for us. Easy menus to navigate and great functionality. Also use some of Hi-Sharps.

 

 

My .02

[rory 0]

Dont forget NeverFocus and AmateurVideo's OEM DVRs.

 

Oh yes the HiPoints also ...

 

AvTeach do work but their lan do suck ..

I have found some better ones for less than those but dont have the funds to bring them in yet ..

 

The main ones that suck though, are those that are not free

[normicgander 0]

securitysys- I hear what your saying. Many businesses will say our quotes are high and they can get it direct on the Internet or Sams Club. Frankly our industry has **d itself out. It's not just the Chinese hardware. Try quoting GE, Sony, Panny, Pelco etc. The major quality OEMs also provide online retailers with distributor (or lower) pricing and allow them to sell direct to the people we (dealers) are trying to sell, service and support. They often sell 5-10% higher than distributor pricing. You may also be surprised that some major distributors have their direct sales pipelines via other company names. They send their catalogs directly to every Tom, Dick and Harry and their cousins too .

[securitysys 0]

I think everyone has a different demographic, but I have to say that for the AVTECH I don't know any professional security company would carry it. Please don't take offense to this, but I'm just trying to see what reason why any company would want to carry their units.

 

There are products that are:

 

A) Lower in Cost

B) Better Quality

C) Easier To Use

 

Plus, their stuff is sold all over the place, Costco, Frys, Sams Club, Best Buy, etc.

 

And Normic, your correct, the industry is "**d" out. The key now is to seperate your self from the bunch, give key reasons why it's better to purchase from you, explain the difficulty in setting up their own system or paying a inexperienced installer to do it.

 

Now, for the most part we OEM all our equipment and rebrand it, so we usually don't have to deal with that, but when we did, we where able to overcome the problems with the stratigies mentioned above.

 

We used to sell GV-1480's in a P4 System with 1 TB of Storage, 16 Sony Superexwave cameras for $20,000 installed when you could purchase them seperately for around $7,000 online .

 

I forgot to add, the way we where able to do this was by showing the value in utilizing our service:

 

1) 24 hour call-back support

2) 5 Year Extended Warranty

3) Unlimited Technical Support

4) Professional, Licensed, Insured & Bonded Contractors

5) Life Time Warranty on Labor

 

In addition to this we would do a professional site survey to:

 

1) Create a facility map that outlined key areas that needed to be addressed immediately

2) Provide proposals in the low - mid - high budget ranges and explained the differences between them.

3) Make our recommendation on the system that needed to be installed (not the system that we have most profit in)

[Daryl733 0]

I have never had network problems with AVTECH DVR, its one of the reasons its our best seller, cheap and easy to set up although navigation of menu when using front panel and command delay on network AP could do with a little tweaking for usability.

 

It's also one of our best seller, as it is CHEAP. not because of the features.

 

As i had mentioned, it is not problem with network. Rather, it is the feature or more accurately, the lack of network feature. I got a lot of customers who read the specs, bought it, then come back and complain abt the network viewing and searching.

 

When the boss is accessing the DVR at the office/guardroom through network, and see something of interest on camera 1, click on camera 1, the office monitor will change to see camera 1 as well. Viola, the staffs know the boss is watching. Viola.... the guard lost the ability to monitor the compound and is stuck to watching only the camera the boss choose to watch.

Have you also try to search for recorded video over network or internet ?

It's damm frustrating. Each click sometimes take up to 10 secs to reflect on the screen. Try it out. Try changing the date and time to play back from, to pause a frame, fast forward, etc.

[Scruit 0]

I have never had network problems with AVTECH DVR, its one of the reasons its our best seller, cheap and easy to set up although navigation of menu when using front panel and command delay on network AP could do with a little tweaking for usability.

 

It's also one of our best seller, as it is CHEAP. not because of the features.

 

As i had mentioned, it is not problem with network. Rather, it is the feature or more accurately, the lack of network feature. I got a lot of customers who read the specs, bought it, then come back and complain abt the network viewing and searching.

 

When the boss is accessing the DVR at the office/guardroom through network, and see something of interest on camera 1, click on camera 1, the office monitor will change to see camera 1 as well. Viola, the staffs know the boss is watching. Viola.... the guard lost the ability to monitor the compound and is stuck to watching only the camera the boss choose to watch.

Have you also try to search for recorded video over network or internet ?

It's damm frustrating. Each click sometimes take up to 10 secs to reflect on the screen. Try it out. Try changing the date and time to play back from, to pause a frame, fast forward, etc.

 

My old CPCam CPD576W was like that - the remote software simply send commands to the DVR as if you were standing there pressing buttons. If I select CH1 on the network software then the main DVR display changes to CH1.

 

With my new CPCam (equiv to AVTech 717) the remote software can bring up a channel without changing the main DVR display. I can select any individual channel using the tabs across the top (does not affect DVR display) - or I can select the DVR tab and change what the DVR is displaying.

[scorpion 0]

If security guards are involved then I see a higher precedence for security than just a simple home "surveillance" system.

 

How much more would it add to the final bill to have a device such as a multiplexor that takes the camera's video loop out from the DVR, and show it on a secondary monitor?

 

Would this allow the guard to see what he needs to see yet allow the "owner" to view what he wants to see?

 

If you wanted the employees to see that you interact with the DVR so that they know that you are watching then this becomes a non issue.

 

In what other ways would you wire up a "system" to keep it budget, yet allow it to do things you would not think it could do?

[Daryl733 0]

If security guards are involved then I see a higher precedence for security than just a simple home "surveillance" system.

 

How much more would it add to the final bill to have a device such as a multiplexor that takes the camera's video loop out from the DVR, and show it on a secondary monitor?

Haa.. i say the same things.. but appearently customers always wants things as cheap as it can goes. so too bad.

Then again, only AVTech/CPCam has this issues. None of the other brand of DVR we carry does it this way.

[securitysys 0]

There are DVRs that are in the same price range of even the cheapest avtech dvr that do a much better job, you just need to know how to find them .

 

Alot of times when a customer wants a cheap system like that we turn down the business. The amount of money I have to pay our contractors to install the system will be more then the price of the DVRs & Cameras.

 

We recently started retailing some cheap systems ($1,500 to $3,500) to customers. My thought was if I'm going to waste time coming out and going back, then why not just sell them a DIY system instead of having them buy it from Costco. No head ache for me and I pocket a few hundred bucks rather then losing the gas for going out to the job.

[Scruit 0]

There are DVRs that are in the same price range of even the cheapest avtech dvr that do a much better job, you just need to know how to find them

 

 

Props for keeping that to yourself.

[securitysys 0]

There are DVRs that are in the same price range of even the cheapest avtech dvr that do a much better job, you just need to know how to find them

 

 

Props for keeping that to yourself.

 

I'm not keeping it to my self, I would gladly share the information (and have via PM).

 

Attached is the pic of one we used to order.

 

Like I said I think their are much better DVR's in the same price range so I don't see the need for even ordering this one . Then again, maybe I'm just naive

[d_guth 0]

PM sent....waiting reply.thanks

[mr.surveillance 0]

 

The main ones that suck though, are those that are not free

 

Please don't use the "F" word!

 

I have sold a few "neverfocus" and the customers were very satisfied.

 

I won't sell anymore promo units like the 760 because they create unhappy marrages to customers.

 

If equipment won't pass my personal tests, I won't sell it.

[benf 0]

I'm not keeping it to my self, I would gladly share the information (and have via PM).

 

Could you please PM me with that info as well? I don't have enough posts yet to send one to you. Am in the market for a decent, but not top of the line, 16ch unit. Thanks

[dopalgangr 1]

Heres my two cents for complete junk:(see below for a camera as well)

 

SPECIFICATION

 

Model No.Silver Hawk 490 (also sold on Ebay as the ULTRA CCTV)

VideoFormatNTSC / EIA or PAL / CCIR

CompressionM-JPEG

Input4 CH, BNC

Output1 CH BNC,1 CH S-video

Loop-through4 CH, BNC

AudioInputN/A

OutputN/A

DisplayResolution720 x 480 (NTSC), 720 x 576 (PAL)

Frame RateMax. 120 / 100 fps (NTSC / PAL)

DivisionSingle, Quad, Sequence, Freeze, PIP, 3x Zoom

RecordingResolutionMax. 720 x 240 (NTSC), 720 x 288 (PAL)

Frame RateMax. 30 / 25 fps (NTSC / PAL)

ModeContinuous / Schedule / Alarm / Motion detection

HDDBasic StorageUp to 2 sets of 3.5" IDE HDD (Max.400GB/single;total 800GB)

ExpansionHDD Box (up to 4 HDD)

AlarmInput / Output4 / 1

Triggered ModeVideo loss, Sensor Input

ActionRecording, Relay Output, Sound Alert

Post Alarm1 ~ 30 sec

Search MethodBy Date, Time, Event, Mark

Network10/100BaseT Ethernet (RJ45)

Backup DeviceHDD, VCR, TCP/IP Network (live & plackback)

Serial ConnectorsRS232, RS485

Pan / Tilt / Zoom ControlYes

IR Remote ControllerYes

Power SupplyDC 12V / 5A

Weight4 kg (without HDD)

Dimensions385 x 70 x 285 mm (WxHxD)

Operating Environment30 ~ 80% RH, 5°C ~ 40°C (41°F ~ 104°F)

 

Camera- COP CM35IR-48 led Day/Night LEDs stopped working after a week, poor customer service[/img]

[Rebco 0]

 

Camera- COP CM35IR-48 led Day/Night LEDs stopped working after a week, poor customer service

 

Oh do i know what you are talking about, The cameras suck but the customers service is even worse....

[Media 0]

 

The main ones that suck though, are those that are not free

 

Please don't use the "F" word!

 

I have sold a few "neverfocus" and the customers were very satisfied.

 

I won't sell anymore promo units like the 760 because they create unhappy marrages to customers.

 

If equipment won't pass my personal tests, I won't sell it.

 

760 was an ok but people for get what they have paid for..

 

One thing I like is feature control the whole system remotely

[dubwiser 0]

I think everyone has a different demographic, but I have to say that for the AVTECH I don't know any professional security company would carry it. Please don't take offense to this, but I'm just trying to see what reason why any company would want to carry their units.

 

Exactly. I've tested 5 or 6 brands of DVR's. None of them sucked as much as all you folks are describing, and I feel for ya. I think part of the reason I was able to avoid the really bad units was that I did a bit of homework before I bought. I came up with a list of DVR's that I compiled by simply getting on the phone and calling large alarm companies to see what they were using. All of them stand-alone, most of them pushing GE/Kalatel. Why? Because they dont break!. There are alternatives of course.

 

I also think that if your main objective is to find the most reliable (profitable) low end DVR for your customer, then you aren't qualified to do video surveillance work and you're doing the industry quite a bit of harm in the process.

 

Either you have the resources and the integrity to furnish your customers with solid equipment or you don't. Now, Im not in the "video surveillance" business per se, but I do know a little bit about equipment. If your customer threatens to go the Costco/DIY route, its not your customer. Encourage them to go to Costco........ they're more than likely to call you back first when they need someone to fix that problem 6 months down the road. They're also likely to be ready to incur the necessary cost of installing a useable CCTV system just the same. Dont waste your time looking for the best of the worst.

[scorpion 0]

I have to agree with you!!

 

In 2006 most of my customers earned $15,000, to $20,000 a year in income.

 

I was doing 20 installs a month.

 

I did not say I enjoyed selling the AVtechs, but for the customer, and the price I was able to fill a niche market that was being ripped off by others, and also by "trunk thumpers".

 

Now that I have grown my business I can no longer cater to the $15,000, to $20,000 income customers.

 

I have to say that I am really enjoying working with higher end products.

 

Now I have to go back to "school", and learn all about Pelco DVRs, and Cameras. I am hoping that I can be as knowledgable with the Pelcos, as I am with the AVtechs.

 

I do have to admit that when you make mistakes on entry level equipment it does not hurt so much such as the first time I hot swapped a hard drive on an AVC 777. Opps! Fax Paux! They are not hot swapable!!!

 

Yikes!! The DVR survived, but the hard drive did not. Whew!!

[dubwiser 0]

In 2006 most of my customers earned $15,000, to $20,000 a year in income.

 

I was doing 20 installs a month.

 

I did not say I enjoyed selling the AVtechs, but for the customer, and the price I was able to fill a niche market that was being ripped off by others, and also by "trunk thumpers".

 

Good point. Value based equipment does serve people really well in a lot of cases. Especially those at the lower economic level who are forced to live in areas where video surveillance would be more of a necessity than other places.

 

Saying that, knowing what low end works the best is a good thing. WHat I said earlier applies more in situations where the customer can afford to invest a fair amount in a system, but hasn't been properly educated.

 

Congrats on growing your business!