Aron2roy 0 Posted April 5, 2008 Great Forum, I have read alot and this is my first post. I need some help with choosing some cameras. I have ordered an avermedia nv5000 dvr card with a few extra extension brackets so I can hook up 16 cameras. Don't think I really need that many, but the price was good. I'm going to be doing my first install at my brothers small car rental business. The business is on a corner lot with some lighting. So I was thinking some low lux cameras would be best, since I have read that most IR cameras are overrated. The building is square, so I was thinking I could get 4 camera's with wide angle lenses to cover the most area. The camera's are only going to need to view about 30 to 40 feet deep, so I guess I'm looking for the best quality at the cheapest price (which is the idea of the wide angle lenses). Will need to be weatherproof and ok for cold because we live near Chicago. I was looking at the Eclipse ECL-595 cameras, does anyone have any experience with these? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I'm new to this and hope I have provided enough information. Thanks. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scorpion 0 Posted April 7, 2008 How to mount inexpensive bullet cameras! http://www.cctvforum.com/cms_view_article.php?aid=54 How to trouble shoot camera problems! http://www.cctvforum.com/cms_view_article.php?aid=42 This may not be for you, but then again there maybe a sliver of information that may be of use to you. How to run wires from an attic with drywall walls. http://www.cctvforum.com/cms_view_article.php?aid=48 __________________________________________________________ My suggestion is to not to use the wide angle cameras if you are looking 40 feet away. At least buy varifocal cameras, and then set them on wide angle, then you can change the settings if the wide angle does not work. Wide angle cameras will give you a distance "distortion". Things will actually appear farther away in the video then what is in reality. What do you think? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aron2roy 0 Posted April 8, 2008 Thanks for the reply. I was starting to think I wasn't going to get one. Understand what you're saying about the varifocal. That makes sense. What about for nighttime? Whats a good low-lux vari-focal cam? I was told that the speco Intensifier cameras were better than IR, but I've read some bad things online. Any suggestions? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scorpion 0 Posted April 8, 2008 It would depend on the budget, and the "threat level", such as residential verses commercial, or working mans neighborhood verses the rich man's gated community. Do you have a million dollars in cash?? Yes??? Please PM me with your address!! LOL! There are to many variables!!! If you are willing to spend a little extra I would suggest hiring someone to comeout, and do a site survey to match the right camera, to your environment. I could recommend an excellant camera that is in the entry level priced market, but it might be trash in your environment, and vice versa, there might be a camera that I would not recommend, but amazingly it performs flawlessly due to its specs matching your environment!! Do I sound crazy? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scorpion 0 Posted April 8, 2008 Here is one of my favorite cameras, but it is not a day/night camera. It is varifocal, and it can be ceiling mounted, side mounted, or on top of mounted. If you need a true day night camera do not get this one. http://avssys.net/?s=product&sub=camera&cat=ir&p=vnd49ir High res version: http://avssys.net/?s=product&sub=camera&cat=ir&p=vhnd49ir I have never used this one, but I wonder if someone can chime in about it?? How about it Rory?? Have you used this one? http://eclipsecctv.com/ECL-557HDA_dome_camera.html Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scorpion 0 Posted April 8, 2008 Have you read Rory's Post?? Here is a compilation of various threads to save on searching through the forum. Ill keep this as a sticky for now since its been searched for alot lately. http://www.cctvforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=6059 http://www.cctvforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=5776 http://www.cctvforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=4227 http://www.cctvforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=4172 http://www.cctvforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=3136 http://www.cctvforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=3012 http://www.cctvforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=4919 http://www.cctvforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=4666 http://www.cctvforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=5232 http://www.cctvforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=5095 http://www.cctvforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=4778 http://www.cctvforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=5257 http://www.cctvforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=4954 http://www.cctvforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=4890 http://www.cctvforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=4331 http://www.cctvforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=3907 http://www.cctvforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=3333 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aron2roy 0 Posted April 8, 2008 Wow that was quick!!! Must have caught you at the right time. The budget is tight, I'd like to stay around $1,000 total or $250 each for cameras. I can always just add a camera a month if they get too costly. I guess what I'm having trouble with is the entire day/night camera issue. The link you posted says it's a day/night camera, but you say don't use it for day/night because it's not a true day/night camera. I don't want a black and white, thermal image at night; and don't think I will need it because the area is fairly lit at night. If that is what is being considered as true day/night, then maybe I don't need true day/night? I just want good color quality at night in an area that is lit by street lights. Tried to post an image of the location, but I need more posts first Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scorpion 0 Posted April 8, 2008 I understand your confusion. There are some keywords that interchangable that create the confusion. True day/night means that there is a filter inside the camera. A sensors tell the filter to slide in front of the camera, or to slide out of the way of the camera. Unfortunatly the day/night camera can mean that it has IR LEDs, and that the camera can "see" in the dark, or in complete darkness. Each camera works best in the "environment" that it was designed for. This means that you may have to forget about reading the specs of the camera, and actually place it in a dark environment, and see how it actually works. A long time ago I was doing a demo of some cameras in a dark nightclub. I just so happened to bring a one inch by one inch mini camera that was in the box for my next presentation later in the day. I went ahead, and I hooked up this little mini camera, and I damn near fell off my ladder as there was a really good video on my monitor. What in the world?????? Wow! What a find!! I started demoing it at all of my bars, nightclubs, and cabarets, and I was able to sell expensive cameras for the front door, backdoor, cashregister, and then I sold med priced cameras for other areas, and then I used the mini camera for around pool talbles, dartboards, tables, and chairs, and other low threat areas in a business. I retailed the camera for $100.00, and owners were really happy to have more cameras then what they thought they would have had. The front, and back door cameras retailed at $1000.00. Imagine getting a bid for a night club where every camera cost $1000.00, or a total of $16,000 just for cameras only!! Do you see how I mixed, and matched various types of cameras in the same environment, to achieve different results?? Front door, and back door is where I want a really good facial identification. In a black, and white mini camera video, I can ID the person, and refer back to the front door camera for what the person looks like, but the mini cheap one can show me who threw the first punch at the pool tables to the police officer. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aron2roy 0 Posted April 8, 2008 Ok, replying to my own post. Now that I've read up some more, probably can't afford true day/night. Seen Rory recommended the Sanyo vcc-4594 previously and it seems to be in the price range. Considering it, but being that we're located near Chicago, I'm thinking I may want to find a heated camera? Any opinions on that? An installer by me is recommending the speco HT-INTB8, so still considering that one. Getting close to pulling the trigger on something....any recommended places to purchase? I'm not opposed to used stuff if its cheap. I've been checking ebay, but not sure how warranty would work. I'm getting information overload....time to step away from the computer for a while Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aron2roy 0 Posted April 8, 2008 Scorpion, Great example of mixed camera use. Way too extensive in my case, but now I understand where you're coming from. Main concern in my setup is car theft/vandalism outside on the lot. He's already been using a clover dvr setup with 4 cameras from sams club ($1,000 total), so I might relocate those cheaper cams inside in a couple of locations since that area isn't as important. I'd have to get a lorex 6-pin to bnc converter for those cameras to do so (guessing that'll work). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scorpion 0 Posted April 8, 2008 I would say go with a local company and have them do a site survey, and go with what they recommend. Later down the road when some issue comes up it would be nice to just pick up the phone, and let them worry about dead cameras, bad wiring, ground loop issues, or anything else that may pop up. Ask them about being able to swap cameras within the first couple of weeks. This way if you end up with the wrong lens selection, or camera selection maybe they can swap it out, to meet your expectations. Before you buy a camera have them bring out a bunch of different cameras, and have them stand on a ladder with a the cameras while you look at the monitor. You may be surprised at what you see, and what you expected to see. Do not forget about the distance distortion on wide angle cameras. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aron2roy 0 Posted April 8, 2008 I'm still waiting on return phone calls from the 3 local companies I called. If it's that hard for them to return a phone call for a quote, then I'm probably better off just doing it on my own is how I see it. Maybe I'll try to hunt down a few more companies. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aron2roy 0 Posted April 16, 2008 Never received call backs from companies, so I'm going at it by myself. Brother decided quantity over quality, so I picked up 15 ultrak kc552bcn cameras on ebay for around $200. From the specs, they seem to be about what he has now picture quality wise, but they have the varifocal lenses. Ordered a 24 vac power supply box for the cameras too. Still waiting on that. So far I got the lorex 6pin to bnc adapters for the clover cameras that he already has, but I can't get them to work. Anybody have any experience with these? Tried both the avermedia card and the bnc connection on the back of the clover box and both nothing. Would like to get the 4 cameras he already has working with the avermedia card if possible. Any suggestions? Thanks for all the advice. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
