Weather Proof color dome cameras???

[Robocam 0]

I just purchased 8 sony color mini dome ssccd43 cameras for outside use. These will all be under soffits on my house and not exposed to direct rain per se. I live in Nebraska that can get quite cold in the winter and subzero temps. I have looked at other weatherized cameras from panasonic, but these indicate identical operating temps. Is there a reason to spend $400-$500 on a weatherproof camera vs. the $230 I spent on the sony ssccd43 mini domes??? thanks

[Thomas 0]

What happens to trapped mosture when it freezes?

[Robocam 0]

Like I said the cameras are under soffits and really unexposed to direct rain, snow, ect. I am not sure what moisture you would be referring to. Might as well explain what you mean. thanks

[Joebo 0]

thomas is referring to condensation build up from the change in weather (cold nights/warm days). Without a heater to remove the moisture (condensation) from inside the housing, there is a good chance of the unit failing.

[Robocam 0]

Is there anybody that can tell me whether they have used something like or similar to the mini dome ssccd43 in a climate such as Nebraska and that it worked ok in a soffit shielded application like mine? thanks

[Thomas 0]

Condensation from the air. I grew up in a cold climate and without a weatherproof dome you'll get the same effect you get on the car windshield.

[Robocam 0]

I am a newbie so bear this in mind. I get the impression that some of you are saying that dome cameras can form condensation internally and then fog up the dome. Well if that is the case, there will be no difference between a weatherproof camera and a non weatherproof regardless of watertight seal. Given that both cameras have no moisture entry externally (mine will be under soffits) these cameras will function no differently as to condensation formation internally unless I am missing something. Regardless of a 100% weatherproof seal, it appears that you are saying that condensation will form inside of the dome unless you have a heater unit. The key appears to be the heater.

 

Also, you are using the interior of a car window analogy which appears to be a very poor comparison point because of the rapid and considerable heat/cold changes from getting in out of a car and breathing from numerous individuals. The internal dome of a dome camera may get warmer and may get colder, but this will be within a relatively sealed environment (even with the non weatherproof) and only very gradually over a period of hours.

 

Tell me where I am wrong here?? And if I am all wet:

 

What is a weatherproof dome and can you give some brand/model recommendations that avoid this problem?

 

thanks for the help

[Thomas 0]

The weatherproof cameras will have things like heaters to help prevent the condensation from forming frost. They will have better water tight seals to prevent moist air from getting in. Rain is not the only way that moisture can get into an area. Humidity during the warmer months will get into the camera unless you have an air tight seal.

 

And my referance wasn't to the interior of a car. It was to the frost that can form on the exterior of a window.

[Robocam 0]

Well....there will be no difference between a weatherproof and nonweather proof camera (given that there is no heater) in them forming or not forming frost on the dome. The seal would not prevent this anyway.

 

The dome will be under a soffit and it will be hanging upside down and therefore, regardless of air tight weather seal or not, there is not going to be a high probability of significant moisture defying gravity and going up through the base of the dome bubble and getting into the camera. Any external moisture is going to either evaporate or drip to the ground with the effects of gravity. I cant see external water defying gravity to get inside even a non weatherproof housing as long as it is not taking direct hit from elements.....does this make sense??? Even on the non weatherproof sony's there is going to be some form of seal at the base of the dome where it contacts the base. I cannot believe that these would be so flimsy as to not have some seal be it weatherproof not.

 

Again what appears to be the only essentail factor would be the heater and I spoke with guy selling weatherproof panasonics who indicated they do fine up in Minnesota even without a heater.

[Thomas 0]

I'm not refering to rain. Rain is not part of this discussion. I am refering to humidity. That would be water that is evaporated into the air. It's pretty easy for humid air to get in, and when it gets in something it tends to have an effect. You can put a camera under what ever you like but that isn't going to make humidity go away.

[Robocam 0]

Im not quite sure how then the weatherproof model is going to help at all because no matter what seal they have there is going to be some trapped air in the dome and therefore we are back to square one.......the only real difference would be the heater aspect and if you dont have a heater you dont have a true weather proof model.....does this make sense???

[Thomas 0]

Not nesscarily true. If the air inside is at 0% humidity that's not a problem. Or it could be a vacum, or nitrogen based atmosphere.

[rory 0]

Hi Robocam, yep, the non weatherproof, generally does not have any seal at all, dont know about Sony though. Ive used a few mini domes outdoors, and put a non weather proof, but it was vandal resistant, dome under a roof outdoors, it was 10-15 feet away from the edge of the roof, but moisture still got inside from rain, and killed the camera, well not straight off, they dont die that easily, but after I moved it to a dry place it cropped out a few days later.

 

On a flip note, I had a weatherproof dome under a roof, a couple feet from the edge on each side, the hole where the wire came in from the side, was not sealed properly (my bad!) water got in from a cross wind during rain, the camera lens, everything got wet, I cleaned it up, and the camera still works fine to this day. I may have been lucky, but this happened a couple times with a couple other cameras I had not sealed proper when I first started doing CCTV. Now, I make sure they are sealed properly, and any cracks or holes are caulked good if they cannot be sealed normally.

 

I think your biggest problem may just be that there is no rubber seal between the dome base and the cover. If you screw it on extra tight it may be okay though, but also caulk around the edges of the base just incase. Use some of the clear caulking to do any sealiing so you dont see the caulk. In fact you can caulk pretty much any where you think may be left exposed, generally the part facing the outside will be more subceptible to the rain and moisture.

 

As for heating, frost, etc, im sorry I cant help there!

 

By the way, all my cameras made it through the past couple hurricanes but I did have to take a couple on the Ocean side down before hand, and seal a couple others up with some caulk also.

 

Rory

[Cooperman 0]

Robocam,

 

The other guys are giving you correct advice on the problems of moisture and cameras (in fact all cameras in general, whether dome or conventional).

 

I may be wrong, but I get the feeling Thomas is pulling his hair out by the handful. What he says is absolutely correct.

 

Seals, and sealing techniques like (rory suggested) 'caulking' are intended to prevent 'liquid', i.e. rain or spray, from accessing the inside of a camera. That is not to say, that if you accidentally have something like small particles of grit on a seal, then liquid can still be drawn into the camera, either by capillary action or reverse pressure, caused by a temperature differential between the inside and outside, at different times of the day.

 

If you have a rubber / neoprene / plastic seal in place, make sure it's clean and then apply a very thin layer of silicone grease before assembling the unit. This should keep 'liquids' out.

 

As regards condensation, micro droplets of moisture are inside practically every camera, unless they are vacuum sealed or nitrogen filled, as Thomas suggested.

 

For most CCTV cameras (housings) if you use some fresh silica gel, this will absorb the small amount of moisture inside a sealed camera. The purpose of a heater is to a) raise the air temperature to a point where the moisture cannot condense (temperature and convecting air currents prevent this), and also b) to prevent deep air frosts and sub zero temperatures from allowing ice crystals to form on the outside of the camera.

 

Without a heater, some cameras may well generate sufficient heat to have the same effect, but where the 'humidity' inside the camera remains high, even if it is not condensing it will still significantly reduce the life of components and solder joints.

 

In Europe, a camera will only really be regarded as weatherproof if it has an IP rating of 55 or more (i.e. IP55, 56, 65 or 66). Below these ratings, liquid can get in very easily. Note that the level of sealing, i.e. it's weatherproof rating, is totally seperate from the issue of whether a heater is required; that is solely dependent on operating temperatures.

[Thomas 0]

Sorry, I tend to get cranky doing Tech Support on the weekends.

[Robocam 0]

Were can i get some silicon gel packets and any recommendations on how to better seal (gasket material?) a sony sscc43v that is not weatherproof rated? It would cost another $150+ per camera to get the weatherproof rating and this would only be the IP66. thanks for the help. sorry for causing so much frustration, but I dont want to blow 2k on these cameras and then have to purchase another 3k worth. better to be safe than sorry. thanks

 

also, if there is any other cctv forum or similar to such forum on security systems i would be glad to go there and stop bugging you guys.....I googled and cannot find any cctv forums. thanks

[Thomas 0]

I apologise I wasn't intending to run you off. The easist place to get the Silica gel packets is oddly enough a shoe store. They are the little crystal packets that are in the shoes. Alot of the camera's I've seen come with them but the others here can answer that better then I can.

[Cooperman 0]

Thomas,

You call that cranky I can show you cranky, and it's not a pretty sight

 

Robocam,

 

As far as I can remember, IP 66 is shallow immersible, so you probably don't need anything rated that highly. If you do decide to use a clear sealant, try and steer clear of anything that gives off acetic acid as it cures. It could start off corrosion inside the unit. I can't advise you on the Sony as I personally don't use them, but no doubt others will have some advice.

 

Oh and I really don't think you're bugging anyone on this forum. If you were, I'm sure they'd let you know

[Thomas 0]

I have three states negitive states of being:

 

Cranky: You can hear my fustration. There may be hair in my fist.

 

Angry: I'm speaking very softly but the words comming out of my mouth are not soft words.

 

Caffeine withdrawl: I am no longer legally liable for my actions under the temporay insanity defense.

[rory 0]

Have you bought them yet? If not, why sony? I dont think too many people on this forum at least, even use Sony Cameras, there are better ones at the same cost.

 

I take it you are paying $300??

 

http://www.spytown.com/sosssemidoco.html

 

I take it you will have alot of light outside as this is not a low light camera.

 

These are weatherproof Domes I have in the field:

 

GE Vandal Resistant WeatherResistant Mini Domes - all types:

http://www.spytown.com/ge-interlogix--discreet-cameras-ultra-rugged-line--rugged-dome.html

 

Weather Resistant color versions start at $280 fixed lens

 

OR

 

Provideo WeatherResistant Dome:

http://www.spytown.com/spcvvarehire.html

 

all their domes:

http://www.spytown.com/search--by-part-number-speco-technologies--dome-cameras.html

 

 

OR

 

Sanyo WeatherResistant Domes, I have the day night version of these in the field also:

http://www.spytown.com/sandomcam.html

 

You can also get Hunt Domes in the same price range as Provideo. I have 1 Hunt in the field and it stands up well in all weather.

[Robocam 0]

Rory, I got them for $230 shipped each and bought 8 of them. I just lit up my property with some high pressure sodium lights and this will help. I liked the sony because of the price, the variable range, the auto iris, etc. Seemed like a good deal. I probably would pay a huge amount more just to get one with a seal. thanks

 

that speco one looks huge at 3 lbs but has some very good specs with A/I, varifocal, weatherproof, vandal resistant, and 1/3 had lens. Is this a good value? It would only be a little more than the sonys i am shelling out for?? thanks

[rory 0]

Its not that big, thats just the weight because its vandal proof.

 

Specs are good, but I havent used it yet. Value for money is good once it works per the specs. It also will see in low light.

 

http://www.csi-speco.com/cart/products/productDetails.asp?prodID=663

 

Would I buy it for my own home, if I needed Color and Vandal Resistant, yes, though I have some WizKid domes installed here, and they are more vandal proof than any Domes I have seen yet, but cost more.

 

Rory

Edited November 30, 2004 by Guest

[Robocam 0]

what is exview? never heard of this. thanks

[rory 0]

Sorry was editing as I posted, its HAD not Exview, HAD is a cheaper Sony Chip and not as low light as Exview, thats how they keep the cost down.

 

Also, here are the WizKids I have also.

http://www.wizkidoptotech.com/products/index.cfm?img=12

They have smaller ones that I am selling/installing soon,in the BW high res version:

http://www.wizkidoptotech.com/products/index.cfm?img=2

the color versions are not low light but they have a day/night version with IR. The Auto Iris VF version is around $350 while the fixed lens versions are around $300, 480TVL color, or $250 B/W 570TVL, or $190 B/W 400TVL. These ones are virtually undestrutable, i drove over it in my jeep, used a sledgehammer on it, and did not break! Plus they have some of the best weatherproofing in a fixed dome.

 

Rory