rory 0 Posted February 23, 2004 anywhere I can download the windows software from to demo? I want to make a good 12-16 camera PC based DVR for clients who cant afford the Kalatel Units. Rory Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
squale 0 Posted February 23, 2004 okay thanks for the explanation, but let me clear something up.. you said that you can stream at whatever your bandwidth can handle and the capture rate will not limit that. So lets say, looking at the GV-600 card, the specs say the following: Screen display rate: 30 fps/NTSC, 25fps/PAL Record rate: 30fps/NTSC,25fps/PAL Playback rate: 30fps/NTSC, 25fps/PAL So now, assuming you have all 4 cameras connected at one time. You will be getting 7.5 FPS for each camera. But now lets say you view this remotely, there is NO POSSIBLE way that you can be streaming video over the internet at anything more than 7.5 FPS per camera because that is the fastest that the local video is being captured at. It doesn't matter if you have a T3 Up and Down connection, you will only get 7.5 FPS per camera at MOST because that is what the camera is being captured at locally. This is how I understand it, and this makes sense to me, so are you saying what I explained above is not true? are you saying that even though LOCALLY I am only capturing at 7.5 FPS per camera that I may still be able to stream and view over the internet at a speed GREATER than 7.5 FPS per camera? if this is what you mean, then I am just confused as to how this could even be possible. If while sitting infront of my LOCAL pc where the cameras are attached and I can only view the 4 cameras at 7.5 FPS per camera using the LOCAL software, then how in the world would I be able to view these same cameras over the internet at a speed greater than 7.5 FPS.. you see.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cctv_down_under 0 Posted February 23, 2004 www.geovision.com.tw Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cctv_down_under 0 Posted February 23, 2004 I amy be wrong, I will test it later but his is my understanding.... when you capture the video you take the uncompressed file and use the CPU to compress it then it is stored on the HDD. When you stream the file it is not touched by the CPU (not entirely true) but it is not compressed yet or sent to the HDD, therefore you stream before the compression takes place and that is not limited to the BT878 chip... I will check this out.. but really busy now.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rory 0 Posted February 23, 2004 avconsult may be able to help in this area. I think thiugh that what ever speed you can view it on locally, is what yo uan view it on over the internet, depeding on net speed.Normally you will see it real time locallly, at least with standard muxes, though standard muxesalso dont always show you real time locally, as you are splitting up the video amoing a lot of cameras. In other words 1 camera system may be real time, 4 will be slower, but it has nothingto do with your recording speed, just the amount of cameras, the mux and the internet. Rory Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
squale 0 Posted February 23, 2004 yeah, I see what you are saying about not being sent to the chip first, but still it just dosn't seem possible to me that you can stream at anything faster than you can capture locally with. Here is a test, if you are sitting infront of your LOCAL pc with the cameras attached to it. And you open up the local installed Geovision software. Let's say for instance you have a GV-600 card with 4 cameras attached. So you are getting at most 7.5 FPS NTSC per camera. Now when you look at these cameras locally on your pc screen through the software, you are only seeing 7.5 FPS per camera, so the cameras are not giving you a real-time picture because the card can't handle that speed. But now you go on the net and pull up the cameras. It would BLOW my mind if you could see these same 4 cameras through the net at a speed greater than 7.5 FPS per camera.. it just wouldn't make sense to me how you could view over the net FASTER than you could view sitting in front of the local computer through the software... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rory 0 Posted February 23, 2004 dont know about GeoVision But using a kalatel standalone as an eg. With a Mux/30pps all in one DVR, 10 cameras, in multiscreen mode, you will see the largest images in real time, the smaller ones in mux mode. If you view one camera in full screen, it is real time. Basically it is analog so it is real time (correct me if Im wrong please). Now for PC based I have seen them streaming real time also. But I may be wrong. I all depends on the multiplexer technology, not the recording part of the system. Rory Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cctv_down_under 0 Posted February 23, 2004 Like I said I may be wrong, just goiung off past experiences, I do nto stock the lower end cards, I will look into it when I geta chance and get back to you Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rory 0 Posted February 23, 2004 now using the same example of a kalatel all in one DVR (or mux with seperate DVR), I have used a local 10/100 network, with 10 cameras, using their network software, and I get the video in just about real time, basicaly as fast as the network and mux will work together. So that may answer your question. Depends on the mux. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rory 0 Posted February 23, 2004 if its for your home, just get the cheaper one, it should be fine. If you have any doubts, and have the extra cash, then get the more expensive one. Its only PC based, not a all in one DVR, so its not all that expensive and you are not tied down to it for life, you could always sell it to a friend if you want to upgrade. Rory Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
squale 0 Posted February 23, 2004 yeah I really don't know much about stand alone dvr's.. only getting into the computer systems.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cctv_down_under 0 Posted February 23, 2004 The standalone is different.. has no CPU to buffer before compression, therefore is limited Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
squale 0 Posted February 23, 2004 yeah I just don't get it why you need such an expensive card just to view real time video at 30 FPS on multiple cameras at once. Damn, even my Logitech webcams, I can view at a full 30 FPS a couple of them at once via USB... you would think that these pro line cameras would be even better... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rory 0 Posted February 23, 2004 The standalone is different.. has no CPU to buffer before compression, therefore is limited ok, thats why I said ask you guys about that area Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rory 0 Posted February 23, 2004 (edited) yeah I just don't get it why you need such an expensive card just to view real time video at 30 FPS on multiple cameras at once. Damn, even my Logitech webcams, I can view at a full 30 FPS a couple of them at once via USB... you would think that these pro line cameras would be even better... your logitech web came cant go outdoors, the quality is not high res, it doesnt have the high end power boards of pro cameras, and alot more reasons, its not CCTV technology. You cant leave a web came going 24/7 all year long, for 5 years warrantied. Home VCRs are cheaper than time lapse industrial VCRs, but they arent designed to run 24/7 all year long. A CCTV Monitor can run 24/7 all year long, for several years, but a TV cant. Thats the real difference. CCTV is an industrial 24/7 all year product. Run the web cam 24/7 for a month or so and see what happens Hardware wil lfail or software will definately crash, probably after just a few days. Edited February 23, 2004 by Guest Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cctv_down_under 0 Posted February 23, 2004 Your webcam probably isnt multiplexed or compressed, your not paying for the card, your paying for development of the software Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rory 0 Posted February 23, 2004 stand alones cost even more, $3000 retail for a 4 channel name brand DVR/Mux all in one! But its stable and can run for years without any maintenance. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rory 0 Posted February 23, 2004 (edited) Your webcam probably isnt multiplexed or compressed, your not paying for the card, your paying for development of the software exactly, you are also paying for the software, embedded or not. Even embedded DVRs, need to pay another company who writes that embedded OS, so it gets even more expensive, then add a SCSI Hard Drive etc. and the price jumps up. So for eg. a Linux or windows 2000 all in one costs alot more than an embedded DVR, as that OS is cheaper, but their actuall software costs money still, so either way it is going to cost. For example. Average Alarm Central Station software costs $7000 for a certain amount of users, even SQL server costs $1000 last time i checked,. software is not cheap. Logitech software is extremely limited and is not a recorder. Edited February 23, 2004 by Guest Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
squale 0 Posted February 23, 2004 exaclty the software, then the price difference between a 4 channel GV-800 and a 8 channel GV-800 SHOULDN'T be $300 US. If it's using the same exact software, then the card shouldn't vary this much in price in my opinion.. hey by the way, that link you gave, do you know what setup they have? what card are they using? and how many cameras in total are they running. By comparrison, what are you guys getting FPS through the multi-view mode on that link.. When viewing ALL 12 cameras at once, I am getting about 2-3 FPS per camera. What is weird is that the cameras which are facing a wall or something where the image isn't changing, I am getting like 6 FPS on those cameras... you know why? Then when I view say just the first 4 cameras, I get about 3-7 FPS per camera. So I guess this means that the less cameras you are viewing at once, the higher the FPS speed for those cameras will be. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rory 0 Posted February 23, 2004 i tried that link, wont work on windows ME. Makes the whole system crash in a bunch of funny colors, and I have to restart, that turns me off straigh away! Only happened on on other card posted on this forum, other card software work fine. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
squale 0 Posted February 23, 2004 that link is running the version 6 Geovision software, worked fine for me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rory 0 Posted February 23, 2004 windows ME or XP? With my ME it crashed 3 times i tried it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
squale 0 Posted February 23, 2004 windows XP... ME is garbage.. lol Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rory 0 Posted February 23, 2004 windows XP... ME is garbage.. lol yeah, but it should work on all poular OS's, ME still being one of the most used. I test on 98, ME, 200 & XP. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cctv_down_under 0 Posted February 23, 2004 It will work on ME as well.. it has nothing to do with OS as it onl;y uses explorer, update your explorer and it should work fine. Make sure active x is enabled as well, the system is a 800-16 running 12 cameras so if your theory was right it would only be 8.3 FPS, so only view one cam and count the frames, mind you longt way away in Australia, the lag will affect massively, would be better to connect to a US Geo. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
