What philosophy (approach) to take with selecting cameras?

[cwd10 0]

Ok. after doing a ton of research on Day/Night outdoor IR camera's, I have come to an impass. I have mostly been looking at bullet style cheapo ($200.00 to $300.00) units, and am a bit dissapointed about the quality and longevity of these after seeing some of the testimonials here and there. My question is: Is there the so-called holy grail of these camera's in terms of quality, features and longevity while still being relatively cheap? Or, should I start looking at the more professional unitized approaches? In other words, go with the "All in one" units, or build a camera system using individual parts like: Camera, Lens, weatherproof housing and external IR lighting? I'm trying to figure out which will be more economical in the LONG run.

 

Here is my intended setup: My own personal home protection system using a 4 channel network DVR, 1 PTZ outdoor cam (Dome?), 2 fixed outdoor IR-day/night cams and one fixed indoor day/night cam at a point of entry.

 

Obviously I'm looking for the most bang for the buck, but I'm willing to spend a little more where it counts. I don't want junk, but I'm trying to keep this at $1800.00 or less if possible. I know it's easier to buy plug and play camera's and such but I don't mind spending some time to build the components, as long as it doesn't cost a fortune. Any suggestions?

[scorpion 0]

This is the perfect one for buying cameras!

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophy

 

Skepticism

 

Skepticism is a philosophical attitude that questions the possibility of obtaining any sort of knowledge. It was first articulated by Pyrrho, who believed that everything could be doubted except appearances. Sextus Empiricus (2nd century CE) describes skepticism as an "ability to place in antithesis, in any manner whatever, appearances and judgments, and thus […] to come first of all to a suspension of judgment and then to mental tranquility."[15] Skepticism so conceived is not merely the use of doubt, but is the use of doubt for a particular end: a calmness of the soul, or ataraxia. Skepticism poses itself as a challenge to dogmatism, whose adherents think they have found the truth.[16]

 

Sextus noted that the reliability of perception may be questioned, because it is idiosyncratic to the perceiver. The appearance of individual things changes depending on whether they are in a group: for example, the shavings of a goat's horn are white when taken alone, yet the intact horn is black. A pencil, when viewed lengthwise, looks like a stick; but when examined at the tip, it looks merely like a circle.

 

Skepticism was revived in the early modern period by Michel de Montaigne and Blaise Pascal. Its most extreme exponent, however, was David Hume. Hume argued that there are only two kinds of reasoning: what he called probable and demonstrative (cf Hume's fork). Neither of these two forms of reasoning can lead us to a reasonable belief in the continued existence of an external world. Demonstrative reasoning cannot do this, because demonstration (that is, deductive reasoning from well-founded premises) alone cannot establish the uniformity of nature (as captured by scientific laws and principles, for example). Such reason alone cannot establish that the future will resemble the past. We have certain beliefs about the world (that the sun will rise tomorrow, for example), but these beliefs are the product of habit and custom, and do not depend on any sort of logical inferences from what is already given certain. But probable reasoning (inductive reasoning), which aims to take us from the observed to the unobserved, cannot do this either: it also depends on the uniformity of nature, and this supposed uniformity cannot be proved, without circularity, by any appeal to uniformity. The best that either sort of reasoning can accomplish is conditional truth: if certain assumptions are true, then certain conclusions follow. So nothing about the world can be established with certainty. Hume concludes that there is no solution to the skeptical argument – except, in effect, to ignore it.[17]

 

Even if these matters were resolved in every case, we would have in turn to justify our standard of justification, leading to an infinite regress (hence the term regress skepticism).[18][19]

 

Many philosophers have questioned the value of such skeptical arguments. The question of whether we can achieve knowledge of the external world is based on how high a standard we set for the justification of such knowledge. If our standard is absolute certainty, then we cannot progress beyond the existence of mental sensations. We cannot even deduce the existence of a coherent or continuing "I" that experiences these sensations, much less the existence of an external world. On the other hand, if our standard is too low, then we admit follies and illusions into our body of knowledge. This argument against absolute skepticism asserts that the practical philosopher must move beyond solipsism, and accept a standard for knowledge that is high but not absolute.

[scorpion 0]

$1800.00

 

I doubt you can achieve this.

 

You will need these also.

 

monitor

caulk

screws

wall anchors

wall plates

trim rings

spray foam for attic holes

 

You can do this but you will get stuck with stuff you will regret later.

 

You will really have to shop around to get these prices.

 

Be careful as the cheap DVR might be on a reconditioned status!

[thewireguys 3]

Without the PTZ you can do it for around 1800 without installation with good equipment. A good PTZ will cost you around $1800 alone. I recommend you say your money till you get a better budget.

[alanjh1965 0]

Seeing as scorpion is in a pilosphical mood.....

 

When it comes to CCTV..... Buy in haste, repent at leisure

[scorpion 0]

Nice one!

[cwd10 0]

Thanks for the replys guys. Noted. I do have to clarify something though. My budget doesn't include any of the the installation hardware, supplies and tools because I already have that stuff. In fact, I have all the cable, connectors, fasteners etc. that I would need. I even have some power supplies and a monitor. I literally won't have to buy anything but the DVR, PTZ/decoder? housings and camera's. This is a really easy install, because it's a newer house with pre run cabling. All six drops terminate in the basement, and come to a central panel. I ran RG-6, CAT-5e, 8 conductor mult, and 18g stranded power from each location. I only plan on using four. I was thinking ahead. I probably won't need to run any more cable, but if I do, I have more than enough of each left over.

 

Yes, I have been shopping around and found some good deals. I have already decided on the DVR (Avtech-AVC782A). I need opinions on weather I should build the PTZ camera system and individual camera's, or buy pre built. Setting the budget aside, I'm assuming that building the system piece by piece is better, but I'm not sure. I will be doing all the work myself, but my time is worth something too. Trust me, I have not approached this in a hasty manner in any possible way. I am also very sceptical of all the overblown specs listed out there. That's why I came here, for all the expert advice.

 

I may have found a decent used Pelco PTZ dome, so my main focus right now is the fixed cams. I just can't decide weather to buy something like the Nuvico CB-SD3895N-L, or just build up the box camera style. I do want something decent, that I won't have to replace in a year because it just doesn't work well enough. I can only afford to do this just once.

[scorpion 0]

If you read alot of these posts, and threads then you will see that I am a big user of AVTech DVRs, and at the same time I am spell out the biggest flaws of the AVTech. Please excuse my duality.

 

I would have you rethink the AVTech DVR. If you are on a budget then I am the biggest supporter.

 

If you plan on doing alot of viewing over the internet then I encourage you to do a demo of one before you buy one! The webserver that they use is below par. I love the DVR, but the server has got to go!!

 

I would recommend the ICRealtime if you plan on using it for internet viewing.

 

You will also want to test the PTZ with an AVTech DVR. It may work fine without any issues, and then again you may find that it may not work as smooth as you would like.

 

Do you have a storefront close to you where you can take a good look at one?

[cwd10 0]

Scorpion. Thanks for the heads-up on the web server issue. I didn't know there was a problem there. I had planned on using the web feature quite a bit. Unfortunately there aren't any stores near me that would have them. I'm in a rural area, with limited resources. Where can I see an online demo of one? I'm not too concerned about the PTZ part, but I will keep it in mind. Thanks.

[CollinR 0]

Well I think you have skipped the crawling and walking and went into the full blown sprint.

 

#1 Camera enviornment.

Do you live in Syberia? Do you live in Pheonix?

#2 Lighting

Do you have too much, too little, too adverse, too back lit?

#3 Cost

 

 

 

Thats the correct order, if you put cost at the front you will certainly not be happy.

 

If the enviornment is wrong the cam will die, if the lighting is wrong the cam won't work right. The is regaurdless to how much you spend, you can spend $1k per cam and fry them all in Phoenix.

[scorpion 0]

Try this for a demo.

 

http://www.securicorp.com/remote-cctv-demo.html

 

scroll down to the bottom for AVTech.

 

Here is another brutally honest link.

 

http://www.cctvforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=65138&highlight=#65138

 

 

Have you poked around my website about AVTech DVRs?

[cwd10 0]

Demo doesn't work. I tried the web link and direct using client software. Always comes up with a dead link/no connection.

 

Yes, I have been on your site. Very informative. That's one of the reasons I decided on that one. The ICRealtime stuff looks nice, but unfortunately it's out of my budget. I will try to find a working demo link to better evaluate, but I think I can live with the sub-par web interface on the AVTech stuff, given the price range.

 

CollinR. I think you may have missed my point. I have already taken into consideration, all those factors. The question is weather it is better to try to achieve my goals by buying all-in-one solutions (that meet those requirements) or to build the systems from scratch. Right now, I am leaning towards building box camera systems, even though it looks as though it takes more effort, planning and money to do so. I guess, I may have answered my own question.

 

Thanks a lot for the input guys. It's been helpful.

[CollinR 0]

Box cam no doubt,