Yet another camera choice question

[dknapp 0]

Hello Everyone,

 

I am setting up a DVR for use to monitor a driveway at a farm. I would like to stay below $150 for the camera. Would like mostly day use monitoring as we have no street llights, no security lights, just natural lighting at night. I don't expect much quality for night time use. Some questions:

 

Do the cameras with built-in IR actually work at their advertised ranges?

 

Also, do the IR illuminators show up in the dark if one is looking at the camera? Do they glow or show up in human vision?

 

I plan to semi-conceal the camera in a tree and point it at the driveway some 30 or more feet away. What lens size should I use, or should I get a zoom and just make my adjustment when I install it?

 

Will moving cloud and tree shadows trigger the motion detection? How do I avoid that?

 

I have a nearby shed to house the DVR and camera power supply. I will be able to check the DVR only about every two weeks, so the motion detection is crucial for the whole plan to work. I should not have more than 2-3 triggers per week.

[scorpion 0]

Do the cameras with built-in IR actually work at their advertised ranges?

 

Yes. er no! Ok. How about a flash light. two AA batteries. It can shine up to a distance. If you stand in front of the flashlight your face is washed out, and if you move back a bit you are illuminated perfectly, and if you move out to the outer range of the beam the light is there, but you are not illuminated properly as we can see your form, but not the details.

 

Take the IR range, and cut it in half at small distances. If it is rated at 30 feet, then it will be effective at 15 feet from the camera.

 

What you really need to do is to measure from where the camera will be mounted out to where the "target" area is or where the camera is watching. Take this measurement and double that for your IR distance.

 

IR works better when there are things to bounce off of (just like the umbrella at the photographer). If it can bounce off the ground, and the underside of the canopy of large trees the better.

 

The worst place for me is watching a boat on a dock. There is nothing for the IR to bounce off of!

 

Also, do the IR illuminators show up in the dark if one is looking at the camera? Do they glow or show up in human vision?

 

Yes! This is great for trouble shooting also! No glow no power!

 

I plan to semi-conceal the camera in a tree and point it at the driveway some 30 or more feet away. What lens size should I use, or should I get a zoom and just make my adjustment when I install it?

 

Get a varifocal lens. This will help to get the right shot! But! There is another benefit. Later down the road you may have a new "event" that you will want to capture. You will not have to go out and buy another camera. You can adjust the camera, and point it to another area, and when you are done you can turn it back, and adjust the varifocal back to where it was till the next new "emergency".

 

At a minimum you will need a 60foot IR range. The IR LEDs have to match the lens. You will need long throw IR for zoom lens (or varifocal that is set for zoom), and you will need wide dispersion LEDs for wide angle lens, or better is to have both LED types on the camera, or the illuminator.

 

I plan to semi-conceal the camera in a tree and point it at the driveway some 30 or more feet away. What lens size should I use, or should I get a zoom and just make my adjustment when I install it?

 

Paint the camera black, or green or what ever the color of the tree is.

Do not forget about winter time!!

 

When the tree is bare the camera will stick out like a sore thumb!

Take some hot glue, or some silicone, and glue bark to it, and glue on a branch, and some stems to get it to blend it.

 

You can wait till winter to get this effect, and then you can just LEAVE it that way!! LOL Sorry! I could not help myself!

 

Will moving cloud and tree shadows trigger the motion detection? How do I avoid that?

 

Yes. It will trigger motion detection. You can cut down by getting a DVR that has motion masking. Cars driving by at night will do the same.

 

I have a nearby shed to house the DVR and camera power supply. I will be able to check the DVR only about every two weeks, so the motion detection is crucial for the whole plan to work. I should not have more than 2-3 triggers per week

 

You will have more than 2 - 3 trigger per week. The camera is outdoors. You might, might be able to achieve this inside of a dwelling, but not in the open. 2 triggers is sun rise, and sunset!!

 

Does the shed have power? Does the place have internet? Does the place get a cell phone signal? Is there a corporation such a "Tennessee Gas" or some such business that would have a wi fi connection that you could pay to use?

[dknapp 0]

Thank you for the reply. To boil it down:

 

Varifocal lens

 

I/R of double the predicted range (have not actually measured it)

 

Lots of hot glue - I liked that idea.

 

Not sure if I like the idea of glowing IR illuminators though. Good for troubleshooting, but I don't really want intruders to see the camera glowing in the dark at them. The guys that break into my place would just take it or break it. I guess I am really interested in just catching their car license plate, not get their face. They would be driving up my 1/2 mile driveway, probably not walking. This is a driveway cleared through woods with a gravel surface and 10+ feet clear on either side.

 

My DVR does have motion masking. No one will drive by without first turning down my lane and going hundreds of yards. Deer, skunks and turkeys yes, no drive bys. I did not think sunrise and sunset would trigger motion detection as that seems so gradual. The DVR is a SecuMate Mini Portable Security Recorder with a 1 GB SD card for storage.

 

Yes, shed has power, no phone or Internet (boy, I wish it did).

[Kiwi 0]

Varifocal lens

perhaps to about 60 or 80 mm, with automatic iris.

Not sure if I like the idea of glowing IR illuminators though.

I think you can get longer wavelength units (940 nM) that are not humanly visible.

I guess I am really interested in just catching their car license plate, not get their face. They would be driving up my 1/2 mile driveway, probably not walking. This is a driveway cleared through woods with a gravel surface and 10+ feet clear on either side.

That's going to take a bit more thought and experimentation. You need to really tighten up the shot to get a readable plate, the car should fill at least half the frame. Plus there's glare from the headlights at night to deal with. The camera being high in a tree will help.

 

Here's a thought - if the "visitors" are not walking I'm wondering if you will get much value from an IR illuminator. I doubt they would be recognizable inside the car. Instead, if you place something reflective at the side of the road like a white sign you will provide enough bounced light off the headlights to illuminate the license plate.

 

I did not think sunrise and sunset would trigger motion detection as that seems so gradual.

The camera changing to night mode and back again will likely trigger it.

Edited May 20, 2008 by Guest

[dknapp 0]

Also, what are advantages/disadvantages of bullet cameras like SCDLink CFC6056EX over non-bullet like the ARM CFC6003VF? Is it just a shape issue or is there more to it?

 

How about the CFC602VF from SCDLink (Sony HAD varifocal, weatherproof). Would the 0.03 lux work OK for my purposes vs. the IR glow-in-the-dark that gives away its presence?

 

Is Sony HQ-1 better than Sony HAD chipset?

 

Thanks in advance for any info.

[scorpion 0]

HQ1 is new to us, and we are still learning about it.

 

PC DVRs are having problems with the HQ1 Chipset.

Standalones so far have not had issues, but it is possible that high end DVRs that are more PC based may have some issues.

 

You will be testing this on your own. Then again all cameras react differently in every type of environment. There are cameras that I would swear that they would work fine, and then I get embarrassed! There are cameras that I would never install, but I test them for "giggles" sake, and low, and behold they work like a champ!! Who knew?

[dknapp 0]

What about bullet vs. non-bullet? Any issues there I should be aware of?

[scorpion 0]

That is a budget verse the job of the camera verses the environment that the camera is going into.

 

High threat situation? Forget the bullet. You can take a broom and smack it in to a different direction so that you can steal what you want.

 

Budget? Bullet is the way to go.

 

Budget with some threat?

http://www.avsdvr.com/?s=product&sub=camera&cat=outdoor&p=vnd49ir

 

Low threat, higher then entry level budget? Get an impact resistant dome that has high resolution that provides excellant video.