Please advise on cheap DVR

[SammieT 0]

Hi All;

 

I've been browsing this forum for a little while but this is my first post (so please be gentle ). I appreciate all the good information even though a lot of it is over my head at this point.

 

Now to the question: Can anyone give me any input on this DVR? http://www.samsclub.com/eclub/main_shopping.jsp?mt=a&n=0&BV_SessionID=_SC_0035428002.1103115784_CS_&BV_EngineID=ccciadddfkhmjeicfkfcfkjdgoodfkf.0&coe=0&oidPath=0%3a-23541%3a-23966%3a-26343%3a-31108%3a890019 ?

 

I know you get what you pay for but I am not ready for ( read "can't afford") a multi-thousand dollar unit. This would be used for home security for four cameras. I don't need internet access at this time. I am basically looking for something to replace a VCR. Right now I am using a standard (not time-lapse) vcr so almost anything would be an improvement. I don't need a lot of features but I want something that I will be happy with for a while before I decide to upgrade. Any help would be greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance.

[VST_Man 1]

repalce the VCR? Ok, look at a "Go Video" DVDRW. Under 200, works like a VCR. But, I'd spend the money now and get a decent system.

[CCTVINSTALLER 0]

Hi Sammie, first of all your link does not work! There are quite a few posts on 4 channel DVRs for home installations. Try the avtech model, seems quite popular on this forum and it is fairly budget, ideal if you dont want to spend a lot. Its about £200 depending on where you are.

[SammieT 0]

Sorry for the inoperable link. The model in question is the Clover 4 Channel IP addressable digital video recorder for $533. Can anyone give me any input on this specific model? It does not show a part number but does list some specs. It is on the Sam's club website at www.samsclub.com. Thanks.

[rory 0]

Are you and end user or an installer? this makes a world of difference. I take it you are in the US?

 

Let us know some more.

 

Rory

[rory 0]

Basic specs are okay, dont know the manufacturer though, one of the most well known and sold IP based cheap DVR is the HiSharp DVR but this is not that, another is the argus/intellicam DVR. If you can, take a test drive and let us know, before you buy it.

 

Rory

[SammieT 0]

I am an end user in the US. I just want something to monitor 2 cameras in the front of the house and 2 cameras in the back as I am having a problem with vandalism. I will eventually upgrade when funds allow but just looking for something basic that is not a piece of junk. Right now I am just using a vcr and 2 cheap-ass cameras (don't laugh!) so looking for a little upgrade. From what I understand, I would be able to set this recorder to get images (of decent resolution) from all four cameras at one time and also set it so that it only records when motion is detected. That's pretty much what I need for the time being.

[eganson 0]

Another source is Costco, for the cheapest of DVR's...look at them online, under electronics->home safety & security...

http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11002870&whse=&topnav=&cat=4803&hierPath=79*4803*

 

Doesn't look too bad at all for the price; $400 U.S. and spend what you save on a better camera or two...

[cctv_down_under 0]

Best I have seen on a budget is the Nadatel $500 US

[rory 0]

$1000 time as it comes to the US though .... and its an unknown name .. in time though ... as its still new.

[cctv_down_under 0]

Hardly new anymore, plenty in the field...all working fine

[rory 0]

Hardly new anymore, plenty in the field...all working fine

 

not over here, new meaning they only recently released them, a couple months ago, i got the email from them when they released it, would you like a date. Its an unknown company still, Im not going to risk my dollars on it right now, Id throw it into some pano cameras and other names to test out.

 

for you guys there it is different, you are closer to them, over here, im screwed if the thing arrives and doesnt work or breaks down a month later, or the company goes out of business ...

 

 

by the way these people just started selling it in the US:

http://www.intellicamusa.com/g44000dvr.htm

Good Specs.

 

Basically, when my distributor starrs carry it, Ill buy one from them to test, cause they will always give me my money back incase of a problem. $300 more right now I get the StoreSafe with Real time playback also from a known company that isnt going anywhere any time soon. For now .. If they send me a free demo Ill be glad to look at it, and if I like it sell it It does look impressive. Though Im wondering if the 120pps playback is not in low res mode?

 

Rory

[34Ford 0]

Im in the market for my first 4 channel dvr and I was wondering if anyone could say if this one Sammie started the thread on could be looked at again.

 

Here is Clovers site for specs.

http://www.cloverusa.com/equipment/cdr4010.asp

 

 

 

Thanks,

 

Dennis

[rory 0]

Its up to you, I cant recommend anything from Sams Club, Kmart, etc.

 

But I can point you to other budget DVRs.

 

PowerTellecom R4000 - great 4 channel unit and Self Executable for Remote Video Live and Admin. Post a Request on this forum if you are interested in it as only dealers sell them. No motion detection though.

 

AvTech 4 channel - Great little 4 channel if you need browser based DVR. Has removeable HDD, and USB. Client program is not great but if you can live with Browser based, this is a good little unit. Motion detection really doesnt exist though.

 

Those are "budget" ultimately cheapest.

 

Next step up is the Active-Tek 4 channel DVR.

http://www.active-tek.com/jun/HtmlPro/product1-2.htm

USB, VGA, Motion Detection, CDR, LAN with Admin, etc.

(also sold under EclipseCCTV, Uriel (.net), Lexion, etc.

http://www.bahamassecurity.com/uploads/tm4cd.pdf

 

 

Those are stand alones, then you move into the PC based, and also high(er) end stand alone systems from companies like Bosch, GE, etc.

 

Rory

[34Ford 0]

Thanks for the reply Rory,

 

Boy how I wished I have just started a new thread about how the features of this Clover compared to other 4 channels.

Clover is not just sold in chain stores, and I have found web sites selling them, but all I wanted is the skinny on what this unit has compared to better ones that are mentioned here frequently.

 

I just wanted someone to say, hey the wavelet is not as good as Mpeg4 or that it dont have a usb, or it dont have a removable hard drive.

 

Now, the Active-Teklooks pretty good at this point. I need to go to these sites and readup on it. And yes, I thought about a card in a pc, but I believe I would rather go with the stand alone.

 

Dennis

[rory 0]

Hi

 

No prob, though whether it has USB, MPEG4, or a Removeable HDD, doesnt really make it a good unit, some of the higher end stand alones have none of that, and they are the best around It is just a good machine for the price, obviously loaded with features.

[shawliou 0]

hi SammieT,

 

As a manufacturer in far east, I don't think it's hard for you to find a one.

There are so many products which are aiming at the VCR replacement market and those are much cheaper than the VCR.

 

What I have to explain when you're looking for DVR in US

1. Do not take the internet function

2. Do not take the CD RW function

 

I do you could find one easily in States within your budget.

[AndrisN 0]

I recently bought and installed the Clover CDR4010 from Sam's Club along with Clover cameras 2 B&W and 2 Color (1/4 " CCDs w/nite vision by Panasonic).

 

I had been using a laptop w/Safeworld software and 2 USB2 video converters with webcams pointing out the windows. Webcams are built for indoor light, outdoor shots are often too bright (tried many cams). Also my wife objected to the constant flux of wires underfoot as I experimented etc. So I decided to invest in something more substantial and decided on this Clover system.

 

Clover : the controls are straightforward but really too spartan, menu choices are yes/no/up/down/next/back - many clicks or button pushes to do anything.

 

A lot of time recording slots, weekdays, sat, sun, holidays with several slots each day, good for programming optimal disk use for a business but irrelevant for home security.

 

Motion detection is flakey - sometimes minor change in cloud cover sets it off, people or cars have to move rapidly, dogs have to really run. At less than maxumum sensitivity its poor, maybe it would work well in a building lobby where people could loom large in a camera, its not reliable at all outdoors. With Safeworld s/w I could set a % movement until I got slightly more than I needed, with Clover I am always seeing myself walking then vanishing then appearing ten feet further on. I am working on installing PIR detectors to trigger the alarm recording to make up for it (any inexpensive wireless recomendations?).

 

The network connction is fine when not recording, but drops in recording mode when there is too much activity, I think the CPU is underpowered. The browser interface is click for click the same as the front panel buttons, with labels misspelled (ALRAM for ALARM), and the same tedious menu structure.

 

The recording is solid, no artifacts of other problems. I tried to contact Clover USA about a possible software options to increase sensitivity but their site rejects the email address they publish for tech support.

 

Summary, its probably good for a business recording a lobby and exit door, I don't recomend it for seeing whats happening outside a house. I just lost a cat to a coyote and hoped to be able to record critters prowling on our acreage.

 

BTW, the B&W cameras are not very good a night (the color cams are worse) - they see only a small spot where the 8 LEDs illuminate, so I orderd a Sony 1/3" super HAD w/tons of IR LEDs to see if its any better.

[CCTV_Guy 0]

Andris,

 

the Sony cam, or any cam with tons of LEDs will certainly be an improvement, but for honest-to-goodness coverage you might want to go with a discrete IR illuminator although they are expensive. On the bright side, if you'll pardon the pun, they last forever (well, years anyway).

 

Incidentally, I have a li'l VisionTech camera with ... I dunno, 40 LEDs I guess, at a nearby salmon hatchery. Those LEDs cast a lotta light.

 

Another thought re illuminators ... check the spectral response of your camera. If it can operate in the covert range, I'd trade off range for stealth. The term 'covert' refers to the fact that those illuminators do not betray their presence with the red glow characteristic of IR illuminators.

 

That way, 'bad guys', if vandals are the reason for the night vision in the first place, bad guys never know they're in the spotlight and being recorded for the viewing pleasure of the local court system.

 

Best wishes,

 

bill

[rory 0]

Ha ha, i just threw away 3 OEM Sony cams with IRs, 3 levels of IR, all sony chips, but ofcourse as we all know (we do dont we) sony doesnt make any of these cameras.

 

anyway they ranged from 20 leds to like 100 on the biggest one. Client got them by mistake. Worst color image ever .. and IR was a waste of time.

 

The only brand I rely on for IR is Extreme CCTV gear.

[CCTV_Guy 0]

Man, judging from Rory's comments, I guess I've just been lucky with Sony cameras ...

 

Now, admittedly, I have only five years' experience with Sony cams (generally block cams bundled into someone else's housing), and zero experience with Sony's smaller cams, but if a no-name outfit like VisionTech can make a pretty strong performer, one would expect that Sony can too.

 

I've used cams similar to the 8-LED cameras that Andris spoke of, and night vision-wise, they were always a disappointment. Some o' the larger 40-LED cams throw a lot of light, though. Comparable to a 60-watt illuminator? probably not, but it ain't drawin' 60 watts, and it didn't cost $500, either.

 

Certainly, Extreme CCTV is a quality manufacturer, but one pays for that quality, they ain't givin' it away. Someone working with a Clover budget may wish to avoid Extreme pricing. I think Andris will see a significant improvement with his new camera over his previous 8-LED camera. Will it be the best possible configuration? probably not, but it will be a significant improvement, and (I'm guessin') at a reasonable price.

 

And, contrary to Rory's experience, my experience with Sony cams lo these last five years (I sold my software company five years ago and got into this gig immediately thereafter) has all been good.... no, GREAT. My clients aren't complaining. I like it when the tech support phone remains silent.

 

I also use Watec / Genwac cameras where applicable.... I guess we all have our favorite brands, brands that came through for us when it really mattered, and Sony and PELCO did just that for me. Consequently, even though Rory may prefer his favorite brand, Sony's a winner in my book('specially those block cams .... they're putting my kid thru school) as is PELCO.

 

Best wishes,

 

bill

[rory 0]

Dude, i am, and I thought he was, talking about OEM IR cameras that use Sony Chips, not sony cameras.

[CCTV_Guy 0]

Oh! Maybe he was. If that's the case, then you're right, of course.

 

After all, who knows what some other manufacturer'll do with the chips? But when Sony does sumthin' with'em, it's been my experience that the results are professional-grade.

 

Sorry 'bout my misunderstanding.

 

bill

[rory 0]

Yeah we all know Sony is good, but thats them ..

Maybe he was talking about a Sony BW cam with External IR .. dunno

 

hey bill got any pictures and specs of your cams?

[CCTV_Guy 0]

Hi Rory,

 

please excuse my delay in getting back to you ... I was out doing battle with some raccoons, if ya can believe it.

 

Yeah, along with conventional, off-the-shelf cameras, we sell what we call the Predator camera which, as stated earlier, is simply a packaged Sony block camera (for example : http://bssc.sel.sony.com/BroadcastandBusiness/DisplayModel?m=10005&p=2&sp=10&id=69180 ).

 

Now for us, this is pretty much a niche-market item and a specialty item, but all come ready for networking, and all are pretty much tailored to the client's needs. Some operate remotely (and/or autonomously) as wildlife projects, others serve in homes or yachts. Some come equipped with covert illuminators; some are ambient-light only.

 

We embed entry-level PHP scripts in Axis 2401+ servers to control the basic camera parameters as well as optionally controlling the camera's response to ambient light (i.e. rather than simply turning the camera on 'AUTO' and letting it fly, we offer an extra-cost scripting option which'll manage the cam's response predicated on the output of a light sensor peering out the housing window alongside the camera).

 

And, if a client wishes to do some fine-detail camera work, we'll write and install the scripting, or (rarely) sell the scripting and let the client modify it as he/she sees fit. Or, at least we've talked about selling the scripting; we haven't actually done it yet.

 

However, the 2401+'s days are numbered and we don't have many left so I think I'll have to re-cast the PHP scripts as shell scripting 'cuz I think the newer Axis servers no longer use PHP3 (or any flavor of PHP for that matter).

 

Regrettably, while I'd like to house the Predator in a dome, I've found it tough to find a dome that is reasonably priced AND whose control language is known to us or openly available. I like the Hitachi PT-50 ( http://www.eaglepantilt.com/ ), but only very recently learned of it and haven't yet had an opportunity to play with one. In the meantime, if the client specifies a dome cam, I generally suggest PELCO or the Sony EVI-D70 ( http://bssc.sel.sony.com/BroadcastandBusiness/DisplayModel?m=10005&p=2&sp=22&id=72199 )

 

Incidentally, I know of a manufacturer here in the Seattle area that became stinkin' rich selling packaged Sony block cameras. The camera alone - no illuminator, no P&T, no networking - goes for $6000 (not a typo: I meant to type $6000 - camera alone). Their niche? US military, US law enforcement, and oil companies around the world.

 

Indeed, after selling $6000 cameras for years (they began with the IX45-a (perhaps even before that)) they're now rich 'n powerful enuf that while they still sell their repackaged Sony block cam, they now work with the Predator remotely-controlled aircraft, Homeland Defense projects, and other ultra-high-profile projects. Their clients want results and don't want to be bothered with trivial issues such as cost. They know the name of the camera they want and that's what they specify in their RFQs - no substitutions, please!

 

Can you imagine the profit margin on selling a Sony block camera for $6000? Heck, you don't hafta imagine it, call your Sony distributor, get your price on the 480, and calculate the profit margin!

 

Consequently, I'm a big fan of Sony and Pelco (oh! and VisionTech and Watec/Genwac).

 

Best wishes,

 

bill