Please advise on cheap DVR

[AndrisN 0]

I just returned the Clover DVR system and ordered an E-400-DVR (Matrix) from Polarisusa. Almost same price and much more configuratable.

 

In reading the spec for the Matrix it became apparent how pathetic the Clover DVR was. I just assumed that SamsClub would have the best value (performance/price) because thats their speciality, low selection but high value, how wrong I was in this case.

 

The Clover OEM Sony 1/3 " SuperHAD with 40+ LEDs arrived and has a much better picture both in bright and dim light (vs. the Panasonic 1/4") but its still useless at night .

 

It does cut out the low (or no) light speckling/shimmering (as I read in astronomy forums the SuperHAD was developed to do) but it does not really show much in the supposedly illuminated area.

 

Since its a wide angle (92 deg.) I am not really surprised, but maybe the LEDs will keep it from freezing during our mountain winter nights.

[rory 0]

cant tell you much about the polaris DVR, but they generally sell decent CCTV gear.

 

As for SuperHad, if its a cheap camera, yes it wont see much at night. Exview will see alot more at night, but will pixelise. Depends what you want. I dont know that camera but basically its gotta be OEM, with 40 LEDs, and I doubt it has an IR cut filter so you probably can notice fake colors in day time, especiallly with green like bushes? Most they are good for is sticking in a small room somewhere (indoors).

 

The 1/3" is going to be wider than the 1/4 inch if using the same lens.

 

Rory

[AndrisN 0]

Rory,

yes, the colors are slightly off, but pleasingly so, with the grass a little greener and the gravel driveway pebbles a little bluer than real life. Somewhat nicer than the non-superHAD where the colors washed out sooner as the light dimmed.

 

And much better than the CMOS I started experimenting with where non-plant colors at least were there (even if not accurate) but plants had their own non-colored whitish hue (from the IR sensors running in daylight?).

 

I thought Exview was better IR sensitivity for B&W ?

[rory 0]

Exview has multiple levels of chips, different prices, If you buy an expensive brand you normally get the best one, cheaper model you get the cheapest.

 

Exview Color mode is low light color, will pixelise to obtain that low light, which normal color cameras, and Superhad, wont see anything. So there is a trade off.

 

Exview BW depends on the camera, doesnt pixelize, and also the chip varies among the brands.

 

Decent Exview's these days will even switch to a digital BW mode.

 

Having an IR cut filter depends on the brand and how much you spend. Not sure but if you send me a snapshot I could tell you right off if it has an auto Ir Cut Filter. If it is a BW camera it doesnt matter.

 

 

Most CCDs will be better than any CMOS camera,

 

Rory

[34Ford 0]

I have a question about the motion detection in dvr's. I went ahead and bought the Clover unit http://www.cloverusa.com/equipment/cdr4010.asp just to see how it would work in the spur of the moment, and so far it seems to be ok.

 

But it only has 1 setting for the motion detect for all 4 cameras. I would think you would want individual adjustments.

Is this the norm? After getting some experence with this unit Im considering taking it back and buying something else online.

[rory 0]

Its not really normal, just how it is with the cheaper units like that. When you buy a more expensive unit you would get individual motion settings.

[34Ford 0]

Okay, Well I looked at this one http://www.cctvfactory.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=cmctech&Product_Code=DVR490&Category_Code=4CHDVRS

 

which there again maybe theres something out there better than this one for under $600.

 

Or is $600 to cheap for a 4 channel?

[rory 0]

Decent or high end 4channel DVRs with proper Motion Detection will cost more than that unfortunately. Otherwise you could look at a PC based using a DVR Card, most of them will have more features than the stand alones in that price range (DVR Card with PC price)

[AndrisN 0]

34Ford, I just when thru the exercize of buying the Clover 4010 thru SamsClub ($533) and returning it. The major problem was the motion detection which was terrible. The controls were awkward, especially replay.

 

I got a Matrix E0400 from PolarisUsa ($538) and its a world of difference.

The added features: 32 (or so) zones in each cam for motion detection, shuttle/jog control for zipping/reversing playback and a remote control for all configurations. Also the Matrix records one audio channel whilst the Clover records none.

 

Remote login is limited to one user at a time in both systems, the Clover system seemed very slightly more resistent to dropping the connection, the Matix is solid in quad mode, not so solid in mux mode.

 

Went thru some cameras and now conclude that Sony ExView is best, Sony SupperHAD if very good and all other color cams bad at low light even with night vision switching. The LED's (even many of them) only light up a small area, since my use is for outdoors I'm better off just with some low wattage night lighting. Rory's posts were right on about this subject and I have gone bac and reviewed more of his posts and now understand them better.

[34Ford 0]

Decent or high end 4channel DVRs with proper Motion Detection will cost more than that unfortunately. Otherwise you could look at a PC based using a DVR Card, most of them will have more features than the stand alones in that price range (DVR Card with PC price)

 

I had considered a card especially since I have a extra computer but unfortunately it is a Asus A7V VIA133 chipset m/b and I have heard these will not work with GeoVisions. So I gave up on this.

Dont know about other card manufactures.

[rory 0]

You could get a SIS chipset Mobo for under $100 and switch it out, load XP clean and good to go.

 

Rory

[34Ford 0]

This is true. But I would have to buy a new cpu also. This m/b is a socket A AMD.

 

Ah anyway its only money right.

 

So what about if I did go this route with the new m/b and cpu and maybe the geo GV-800-4? This is getting close to the 600 mark.

Do you feel this is a better system than a dedicated dvr for 600?

[34Ford 0]

34Ford, I just when thru the exercize of buying the Clover 4010 thru SamsClub ($533) and returning it. The major problem was the motion detection which was terrible. The controls were awkward, especially replay.

 

I got a Matrix E0400 from PolarisUsa ($538) and its a world of difference.

The added features: 32 (or so) zones in each cam for motion detection, shuttle/jog control for zipping/reversing playback and a remote control for all configurations. Also the Matrix records one audio channel whilst the Clover records none.

 

Remote login is limited to one user at a time in both systems, the Clover system seemed very slightly more resistent to dropping the connection, the Matix is solid in quad mode, not so solid in mux mode.

 

Went thru some cameras and now conclude that Sony ExView is best, Sony SupperHAD if very good and all other color cams bad at low light even with night vision switching. The LED's (even many of them) only light up a small area, since my use is for outdoors I'm better off just with some low wattage night lighting. Rory's posts were right on about this subject and I have gone bac and reviewed more of his posts and now understand them better.

 

I am reading the manual for this unit online and I do agree its looks to be better than a Clover.

[rory 0]

Depends what you want or need, it will definately have many more features and be real time display and recording. You need to also know something about PC software and hardware which it appears you do. Also make sure the memory is at least 256Mb (DDR), even better 512MB (DDR), and the video card at least 64MB DDR, better yet 128, and seperate video card is best.

 

For clients I normally spend around $700-1200 on the PC, though ive gotten away with an old 1.5Ghz celleron for my own testing of a couple cards.

[andy 0]

This is true. But I would have to buy a new cpu also. This m/b is a socket A AMD.

 

If you plan on using AMD with Geovision, try to find a MOBO with the NForce chipset.

[scottj 0]

or use a VIA (Gigabyte board) with an AMD64. It works.

 

scottj

[AndrisN 0]

34Ford, yesterday I was at a SamsClub store and they had a Lorex 4 channel recorder w/80 gigabyte removable disk for $299. No internet connection but it did have better controls in front than the Clover 4010. It also had a remote control so you wouldn't have to sit right in front of the TV to control replay.

 

About a year ago I remember spending $299 for a timelapse VCR (which served me well), this Lorex DVR is billed as a VCR replacement.

 

By the way, I remain satisfied with with my Matrix DVR, returning the Clover was the right move for me. One more caution about SamsClub.com, I ordered their outdoor Clover EX-View cam but they shipped a superHAD, don't know if it was a pick/ship mistake but I returned it - also the lens fogged up (internally) overnight at 40 degrees - so much for 'outdoor'.

 

 

 

It seems the hardware prices are dropping all the time but the setup and install complexity remains constant, so the business of selling and installing these systems should boom as these systems become affordable to a wider audience.

[34Ford 0]

AndrisN,

 

Well I bought the Matrix E0400. I figured something has to be better then the Clover.

Anyway I installed it yesterday evening. So far so good except the Clover i/r color camera keeps setting off the motion even with the sensitivity set to its lowest?

 

What cameras are you using? Im thinking Im going to take every thing back that has Clovers name on it.

[rory 0]

It wont matter, all cheap IR cameras will do the same ...

 

Rory

[AndrisN 0]

34Ford, I have 2 of the Clover color ir cams and they work ok with motion detection in daylight outdoors. I did have to adjust the zones to get tree limbs out etc.

 

There is still some residual triggering sometimes that I can't figure out , but acceptable to me. At night, when they haven't yet switched to ir, the low light speckling/shimmering sets the MD off all the time so I switched to continuos slow frame rate recording and intend to use stand alone ir detectors to trigger the alarm input.

 

When the cams are in ir mode I find the illumination by the LEDs are poor. The only good one is the cam with lots of LEDs but it also has the Sony superHAD chip which has excellent color anyway. Some SuperHAD cam descriptions mention digital signal processing capabilities to clean up the picture, this also stops the speckle/shimmer. Don't know if DSP part of SuperHAD or an add on. SuperHAD has a substate that bleeds off some static charge on the chip that causes noise in ordinary CCDs.

 

Have decided to give up on cams with ir illuminators and just have superHAD cams. Can't locate any inexpensive EX-View. A SuperHAD at Sams is the Lorex $83, I am waiting for this one.

[34Ford 0]

Hum, not sure which cam you have , but this is the one that is giving the problems at night; http://www.cloverusa.com/camera/oc285.asp

I have been happy with its day/night abilities but the triggering is not going to work.

 

Anyway in my situation I really done need ir. This camera is covered by a motion flood light anyway so its useless. I believe Im going to order some color day/night cameras. And not Clover's.

 

Have considered some Eclipse but last time I checked their site gives me a error. http://www.eclipsecctv.com/Dayandnightcams

[rory 0]

what are you looking to spend approx?

 

Eclipse does have a day night with a mech IRcut filter, thats the only one that will look any better from the clover, as otherwise they are all the basically the same manufacturers or designers.

 

The IR on those are pretty useless unless its just for indoors.

 

You can also check out KT&C KPC-N600H1 and KPC-N600H2 as they are resonably priced having an mech IR Cut Filter.

 

Provideo has the CVC-7706DNV.

 

To really get rid of the pixelisation and if this is outdoors, you will need to use high powered IR such as Extreme, lots of outdoor lighting, or Low Lux BW. To get a good color day image for a day night camera, you will also need a Day Night camera with an auto or mech IR cut Filter.

 

Exview color will pixelise, its a trade off to see in such low light while staying in color mode.

 

SuperHad, not as many work for low light so less pixelisation, depending on the particular SuperHad chip.

 

The Color IR cameras such as that clover you posted a link to, are simply digital color/mono cameras that have a very limited level of sensetivity in mono mode, which is why they dont even utlize the IR they have all that well. They also dont have any auto or mech IR cut filter.

 

I cant remember the Eclipse model will have to wait until it comes back up.

[AndrisN 0]

Dennis, I have that cam and the motion detection does work in daylight with the Matrix DVR. I had to set the zones rto exclude swaying tree branches and reduce the sensitivity by 1/8, but it catches my dogs running but very small birds in the distance seem not to set it off.

 

I also have a more expensive superhad model and its even more solid. But at night all bets are off (althought the superhad has much less noise), like I said I will use PIRs with alarm recording at night.

[34Ford 0]

Andris, I also had this camera http://www.cloverusa.com/camera/C3326EX.asp

 

but I took all of them back to the local store and you wouldn't believe what I had to go thru to do that. But I did end up with cash.

[34Ford 0]

Rory,

 

Thanks for the cam numbers. There is so many choices its overwelming.

 

Ok, Im now thinking that since I have several motion flood lights around here and as cheap as they are I can install more I dont think i/r is really needed unless it dont really add to the cost.

 

So far my breakins are in broad daylight while we are at work.

I like the KPC-N600H1 and KPC-N600H2 but if I can put the money towards a higher res camera without the additional costs of i/r in them.

 

I have noticed that most d/n bullit cameras had the i/r whereas d/n without the i/r are mostly box cameras.

 

Which I dont have a problem with box cameras.