Need Help Buying: DVR, Cameras, Etc

[Fry 0]

My parents own a store and are looking at getting security cameras to help with theft and just keep an eye on things.

 

I have been looking at DVR stand alone systems and cameras.

 

Since I live in Minnesota, we have been told we will need the following.

 

A DVR

A monitor

4 outdoor cameras in heated enclosures

4 indoor cameras

Cable

and a few other miscellaneous items.

 

I have never installed cameras, but think I can handle it as I am pretty good setting up electronics.

 

My dad told me that he wants a system that is decent, nothing fancy as he wants it more as a deterrent. And without finding another online forum before this one, there are so many choices, I am not sure what to get or where to start.

 

So I would like to get a 8 port DVR...and hook up a regular VGA monitor to it. Something simple to use, and not confusing. Something to record all 8 at once with a built in multiplexer. Suggestions for good outdoor cameras and good indoor cameras. I know that 420 lines is pretty good.

 

Please keep in mind, I don't need anything with zoom, but just something simple. The outdoor cameras should be clear at night with I suppose, with infrared to see in the dark.

 

Can you guys steer me in the right direction of which brands to look into and which to stay away from?

 

Budget is 2,000.00.

[scorpion 0]

You will be able to install everything "electronically" but the system will be a crash, and burn.

 

There are 100 things that you need to know about installations.

 

#1

Most quicksell systems will come with wide angle lenses on the cameras (whether box, or dome, or bullet). This is great for peripheral vision, but be FORWARNED!! Wide angle lenses have a distance distortion. Something 20 Feet away will appear farther away in the video, then in reality. Great for watching shelves, but terrible for facial recognition.

 

Use non wide angle cameras at the front entrance to avoid this distortion, and to get zoomed in on to the faces.

 

To make a camera cheap they start leaving out circuits that make a camera work.

 

They yank out an 8 cylinder engine, and they replace it with a lawnmower engine. They yank out the cushion seats, and make you sit in a cheap plastic bucket. They take out the shock, and springs, and you no longer have a luxious cushion ride, and you bounce yourself to death! They take out the dash panel, and you have to guess how fast you are going when you see the police on the side of the road with the radar pointed at you!!!

 

This is kind of an exaggeration, but then again if you read these posts then you will see I am not to far from the truth either!

 

YOUR PRICE OF $2000.00 IS TO LOW FOR AN 8 CAMERA SYSTEM!!

 

Drop some cameras from your list, and take that money, and buy a great DVR, and later buy some more cameras as the cash flow comes in.

 

Think about viewing over the internet. Some DVRs are great like the ICRealtime DVRS

 

http://icrealtime.com/solutions/dvrfxr30.asp

 

AVTech DVRs are great for budget systems, but they leave a lot to be desired to watch over the internet. They are OK, but if you want better then at least you have been forwarned

 

http://scorpiontheater.com/cpcamtechsupport.aspx

 

Download the manual of a AVC 785 DVR that you see in the above link. This will give you some info before you spend your hard earned money!!

 

 

What do you think?

 

 

How to mount inexpensive bullet cameras!

http://www.cctvforum.com/cms_view_article.php?aid=54

 

How to run wires from an attic with drywall walls

http://www.cctvforum.com/cms_view_article.php?aid=48

 

How to trouble shoot camera problems!

http://www.cctvforum.com/cms_view_article.php?aid=42

 

Here is how to fix your video source problems

http://www.cctvforum.com/cms_view_article.php?aid=41

[Fry 0]

I noticed that yesterday at Sams Club, just poking around looking at a shelf system. The further away...about 20 feet I noticed facial blur. But even though that system sucked, I don't think we need anything much better than that one. I don't think internet viewing is really necessary. I'll take a look at the links you posted.

[scorpion 0]

NO! NO! NO! NO!

 

You must have internet connection!!

 

How can you guage if your payroll schedule matches your customer count?

 

Would you like to see if you have more staff than customers that is burning up your money?

 

Would you like to see pissed off customers becuase there was only one cashier lane open?

 

Where is your safe? Would you like to watch assistant managers while they are handling money while you are at home?

 

Do the pretty cashiers hang out with the "gods gift to woman" manager in the office?

 

Anyone setting beer or other items out the back door?

 

Get crazy!!! How about a camera on the temp guage of the ice cream cooler. Now you do not have to drive to check on it!!

[Rebco 0]

I noticed that yesterday at Sams Club, just poking around looking at a shelf system. The further away...about 20 feet I noticed facial blur. But even though that system sucked, I don't think we need anything much better than that one. I don't think internet viewing is really necessary. I'll take a look at the links you posted.

 

You are absolutely right you don't need it at least not till something happens and the (Bleep) hits the fan. You install cr@p you get cr@p I see this everyday, Just yesturday a client of mine called me that they had a detective there and wanted video off the system, I later found out the store accross the street got robbed and the cops couldn't get a good picture of the guy that robbed them off the stores cheap camera system. So they went accross the street to see if they can get something which they did.

 

 

I don't think we need anything much better than that one.

Are you sure? This is your family we are talking about, god forbid something happens and you regret your comment.

[scorpion 0]

The better question to ask is: (do not answer these question on the forum)

 

How much is your parents store worth?

 

How much cash is in the safe on monday morning?

How much income do they produce a week (gross)?

How much is left over after payroll, and other overhead?

 

Do they rent the building, or do they own the building?

 

How much is the stock worth in inventory?

 

How much is the equipment installed worth?

_____________________________________________________________

 

If someone came in and cut all of the copper pipes to the refridgerent systems then how much would it cost to replace it?

 

How long would it take a company to come in to complete the work?

 

How much would the company charge you to replace the equipment?

 

What is covered under your insurance, and what is not covered?

 

_____________________________________________________________

 

How much do you loose to two legged rats (employess)?

 

Based on these dollar amounts then I would spend 10% of that value.

 

 

What do you think?

[Fry 0]

Thank you for the comments. You bring up valid points. My parents are basically the only ones there. They own the building. We looked at some nice Toshiba and Speco outdoor cameras that have separate lenses that were recommended from other security companies. My father wants the outside a priority over the inside, so I think we are going to get a nice DVR and the outdoor camera’s and enclosures and maybe one indoor camera.

 

So, you’ve sold me. I’ll post up some suggestions later today to see what you all think.

[GT_Cameras 0]

Since I live in Minnesota, we have been told we will need the following.

 

A DVR

A monitor

4 outdoor cameras in heated enclosures

4 indoor cameras

Cable

and a few other miscellaneous items.

 

I have never installed cameras, but think I can handle it as I am pretty good setting up electronics.

 

My dad told me that he wants a system that is decent, nothing fancy as he wants it more as a deterrent. And without finding another online forum before this one, there are so many choices, I am not sure what to get or where to start.

 

And now the crap is likely going to hit the fan because I'm going to disagree with everyone.

 

First off, you can definitely do the install yourself. Just remember, the difference between a good install and a bad install happens before you drill a single hole. Good installers take the time to draw everything out using graph paper, rulers and a protractor. A camera sees in a cone - the distance between the two 'lines' is the camera's angle of view. Plot everything out and try some different camera set ups. As far as lens/sensor choice, feel free to contact me directly and I can give you some more resources....

 

You know what your Dad says? About wanting this system as a deterrent? There is really strong science to back up what he says. Social psychologists have proven on many different occasions and in many different studies that people behave differently when they know they are being watched. The simple act of setting up cameras will dramatically change behaviour. Employees won't hang out in the office with the 'lady's man' manager because they presume that you watch the tape. People won't steal as often because they will see the cameras, see the signs and, if you are smart and really into creating a deterrent, see the monitor you set up so they can see the video feeds that you see.

 

On the last point, I'm really surprised by how many retail installs don't let their customers watch the feeds. It is way better to keep from stealing than to have evidence to catch them when they do.

 

In my experience, remote view (internet viewing) actually ruins lives. Entrepreneurs only succeed if they are slightly obsessive. And remote view is the perfect tool for an obsessive person. Some people never leave work once they enable remote view. Even when they're at home, they're logged in watching their store, watching their employees and making mental notes. Remote view won't show you anything that you can't see the next day at several times the regular speed. But it will add to your stress and it will keep you from getting the rest and relaxation you need to be successful for years to come. If you really must set up internet viewing, monitor your usage of it and don't be afraid to shut it down.

 

In my mind, a standalone DVR is a giant scam. You are paying really good money for a hard drive with some buttons on the front. Yes, they are easy to set up. Yes, they are easy to put the images online. Yes, they are easy to secure. They are also prone to break. Hard to fix. And they only do one thing - record/'serve" video.

 

The alternative to a standalone DVR is to use a computer. There are a few benefits to using a computer. For one, you don't need much of a computer to run an 8 channel system. In fact, the 16 channel cards we carry retail usually retail for $105 canadian. To run this card, you need a Pentium 4 computer with 512mb of RAM (though I'd suggest you have 1gb) and a hard drive (the bigger the drive, the more video you can store). These computers are considered obsolete so if you look around, you can find all kinds of used ones for sale.

 

Here is my favourite part of using a computer. When I sold surveillance equipment to end users, we used to carry standalone DVRs made by some really well known brands. Standalone DVRs break as often, if not more often, than computers do. Anyone who tells you differently is trying to sell you one. And here is the difference. If your DVR breaks, you get to send it back to get fixed. And then you get to wait for at least 3 - 4 weeks (if you're lucky). I've had clients wait for 5 and 6 weeks on a DVR repair. If you don't buy a name brand computer, every part that will go wrong is going to be readily available in your area. A computer is really only five things - a power supply (these go all the time), a mainboard, a processor, RAM, and a hard drive. Everything else is optional. All those things are extremely common and very easy to get replaced. If your computer technician can't do the repair in less than a week, get a new technician (or take the time to learn how to do it yourself).

 

And finally, when you use a computer, you have access to other things right there. It is easy to take a screen shot and then clean it up/use high quality digital zoom algorithms using a software package like Adobe Photoshop. Furthermore, if you take care of your computer (ie - antivirus, antispy, clear your caches, be a smart internet user, etc), you can easily use it to multitask - do your books, research products, etc.....

 

I actually live just north of you, in Saskatchewan, Canada. We get pretty well the same kind of weather that you get. I've had a whole lot of luck with Vitek heated enclosures. They're around $80 US a piece, but, in my mind, they're worth every cent. Making your budget with these could be rather difficult, so I'm curious whether you need to go with four outdoor cameras right now? Perhaps two would give you a start and then you could always add on if those two aren't giving you full coverage???

 

As far as indoor cameras go, again, having them there is a deterrent. It doesn't sound to me like you're really that concerned with nabbing a particular employee who is stealing. It doesn't even sound like you have that big of a shoplifting problem. But, it does sound like bad stuff is happening and you'd kind of like that to stop. Depending upon the size of your interior area, and the areas you really want to cover, even a combination of 3.6mm and 6mm lens equipped dome cameras should give you a combination of range of vision with face detail.

 

And now finally, I prefer to work with small business because I really understand the situation they are in. Fact is, sometimes its about making a decision between good enough and too expensive, know what I mean? To do your location properly (so you get multiple angles, lots of high quality face shots), you're likely looking at around double your budget. However, if you set things up properly (and have some help along the way), you can stretch your dollars out significantly while getting 'good enough' coverage.....

 

Feel free to ask me anymore questions.....

 

Greg

[scorpion 0]

And now the crap is likely going to hit the fan because I'm going to disagree with everyone.

 

 

No. I would not disagree with you. Everything has its place in the right environment, and budget. For a learning process, sometimes I will play the DEVIL's Advocate just to bring up another side.

 

First off, you can definitely do the install yourself. Just remember, the difference between a good install and a bad install happens before you drill a single hole. Good installers take the time to draw everything out using graph paper, rulers and a protractor. A camera sees in a cone - the distance between the two 'lines' is the camera's angle of view.

 

Yes he can, and that is why he is weighing our comments. He may disagree with all of us, but he will take nuggets of information that will work for his environment, and his budget.

 

 

In my experience, remote view (internet viewing) actually ruins lives. Entrepreneurs only succeed if they are slightly obsessive. And remote view is the perfect tool for an obsessive person. Some people never leave work once they enable remote view. Even when they're at home, they're logged in watching their store, watching their employees and making mental notes. Remote view won't show you anything that you can't see the next day at several times the regular speed. But it will add to your stress and it will keep you from getting the rest and relaxation you need to be successful for years to come. If you really must set up internet viewing, monitor your usage of it and don't be afraid to shut it down.

 

Yes. Luckly we have started a CCTV rehab foundation.

7 steps, and then you will have to use a support group for life.

 

You may not get your job back, your wife, kids, or your house back, but at least you will have your peace of mind!

 

 

You are right though. I can go into any fast food restaurant, and any sub shop, and I can tell you what is going on without looking at a camera.

 

Have you ever been in a nonalds (as my 3 year old son says), and it is just after lunch is starting to be served? Do you see the fries under the table? Do they sell fries for breakfast?

Are there a lot of trays stacked on the trash cans? Are the trash cans full?

Is there a lot of debris in the parking lot?

When you walk up to the point of ordering, and the cashier is off to get some supplys out of the back does everyone stand around and chit chat without giving you notice, or do they say "someone will be right with you", or are they lazy, and start screaming at the top of their lungs "CASH REGISTER"!

 

Can you see in the back? Is the sink full of dishes during a non rush time frame? How many employees are leaning on equipment, and sucking on drinks?

 

If you do not see any employees do you hear laughter coming from the managers office?

 

Yes, you are right CCTV is not the end all. LOCK YOUR SAFE! CCTV does not stop crime, as it only reports the crime.

 

CCTV should give you more than who did it. What time did it happen?

Did someone else do it, and frame another? How did it happen? Why did it happen? What made it happen? How can we prevent it next time?

 

I find that many more "managers" steal than employees steal. They have control of the drawers. They just wait for the new hires, and take some cash. New employees are forgiven for cash problems as they are untrained.

 

If a manager, and a staff member are sharing a drawer than they both have to split the shortage 50/50. If the manager steals $100.00 then both the manager, and the staff pay up the $100.00, and the manager walks away with $50.00.

 

When it comes to staff I find most of the theft is in the drive through. Hand out a drink only order, and pocket the $1.50, and do this 10, or 15 times in one night, and you got some cigarette money.

 

You inventory the meats, so they cannot hand out a bunch of burgers. They can probably feed one friend here, and there without getting caught. Do you inventory the cups?

 

Here is another manager trick. Pick an employee that you hate. They always seem to come up short. Everytime they work, and it does not matter the shift. After a time the GM will fire them.

You could also spread it around so that everyone is having "problems".

 

Do you an install CCTV at a restaurant where there is a high turn over rate? Do the managers complain about how bad the employees are "today".

 

I am exaggerating a bit, but then again I am not to far from it either.

 

 

In my mind, a standalone DVR is a giant scam. You are paying really good money for a hard drive with some buttons on the front. Yes, they are easy to set up. Yes, they are easy to put the images online. Yes, they are easy to secure. They are also prone to break. Hard to fix. And they only do one thing - record/'serve" video.

 

Scam? Everyone knows that I sell my equipment to those in neighborhoods where they make $10,000, to 15,000 a year. I used to do 20 installs a month. My numbers have dropped off alot recently. In fact I have lost a lot of business from that piece of my "revenue pie".

 

Is a computer not a hard drive with a bunch of buttons on the front? OH! You are right. It has a mouse! My mistake!

 

Scam? This would make me a scammer! I believe that I am the only one (if not one of the very few) who caters to this "market". Based on this then I am the worst one from thousands of people who are on this forum!

 

Read my post. I am the first to complain about AVTech products! Would you guys on the forum agree? Again I am the first to promote the advantages, and price break of AVTech Products. I just worked with my first Dedicated Micros 16 channel DVR! After working on AVTech DVRs I thought I had died, and gone to DVR heaven with the DM!! LOL!!

 

 

I have tried selling PC based DVRs to this market! I would sell picos if I did not have to go back and fix them.

 

How come I am not having much luck with the $300.00 computers from Wally World? It is a computer right? I should be able to make it work right? What should I make on a profit? Cost times 2.5? I could do it cheaper by dropping my licenses. How much does court fees cost when I get popped for working without a contractors license? Maybe I should drop insurance instead? No, I better not do that. OK, I cannot sell my products at the same price I am buying it, and I probably cannot compete with EBAY.

 

Why does everyone who buy from EBAY go to a search engine, and google stuff about AVTech DVRS??

 

Just from google alone I get 1600 hits a month looking for everything! Maybe you are right stand alones are junk. No! I disagree. I believe there are a lot of companies who sell stuff, but they do not provide tech support, and that leaves people fending for themselves, and I get to be the shining Knight in Armour!

 

If I had a website designed for computers similiar to my website for AVTech tech support then why do I feel that my numbers would quadruple? I would really hate to get in to Vista issues!

 

Would you guys on the forum agree, or disagree with that thought?

 

Is that right? Would my queries quadruple?? Maybe I should forgo my crappy website as I do not put any money into it, and I do not have the time to work on it! Thank goodness the website is free, and it does not cost me anything out of pocket! Maybe I should fill it up with advertising, and make money that way??

 

My domain name is coming due in Sept. Do I just let it go without renewing? Who cares about 5000 hits a month with people who are looking for DIY help?

 

Wait a minute! I do care! That is why I posted all of that info in the first place! It took me a long time to research every aspect of every manual, tech help, and matching AVTech DVRs to model numbers, and type, and all of that kind of stuff. I cannot let all of that info go to waste!

 

Maybe I should charge to download manuals, and tech support help??

Naaaa. I will keep it cheap, and simple. Yes my site does not have the glimmer, and glitter, but it does get the job done!

 

Now I still have to live with myself being the biggest scammer out there!!!

 

 

The alternative to a standalone DVR is to use a computer. There are a few benefits to using a computer. For one, you don't need much of a computer to run an 8 channel system. In fact, the 16 channel cards we carry retail usually retail for $105 canadian. To run this card, you need a Pentium 4 computer with 512mb of RAM (though I'd suggest you have 1gb) and a hard drive (the bigger the drive, the more video you can store). These computers are considered obsolete so if you look around, you can find all kinds of used ones for sale.

 

Sold!!! I have a bunch of Pet Stores that I have to do here real soon all over the state of Florida. I like your pricing as it is better than what I can get through my "certified" dealers.

 

Sold! What are my warrantys, and guarantees? How much for offsite tech support, so that I can have you handle my "help desk" for this chain?

 

How soon can you start? 16 channels that retail for $100, and some. Hmm What is your cost? $50.00? Can you certifiy me, so that I can pass on any leagle issues back to the dist of the card?

 

Thanks!

 

 

Standalone DVRs break as often, if not more often, than computers do. Anyone who tells you differently is trying to sell you one.

 

I have already confessed to being a scammer, but the rest of what you say is not correct, and I can document it in court with full affidavites!

 

I will be more than glad to show you all of my AVTech AVC 772s, and AVC 773s that are still running after all of these years. If those DVRs are not crap then I do not know what is crap. If those can keep working then even I have to say I am truley amazed.

 

How I found out was I was checking on all of my customers in an area that was devasted by fires, and 30 homes were burnt to the ground, and 60 more were deemed uninhabitable. People were really surprised to see me. I wanted to know if my customers still had a house standing! I set up some loaner DVRs until I could get their olds one running again. Some had some cameras that died from the heat of the fire as the soffits were starting to melt, and the windows would shatter. I had to run some wire for a few, and for others I was just playing "dog, and pony" show reorienting the cameras to make them happy. We all had a good time catching up on "so how are you doing"? They asked about my baby, and I said she is 6 years old now! Boy time flys! Wow! It was nice seeing people that I have not seen in a long time.

 

 

Do you want to see some AVC 773s in action??

 

Do not get me wrong! I have been embarrassed by all measures on DVRs that have created some quirk, or just died with no know excuse. I have had customers come pounding on the counters, and try to reverberate the walls with bellows from deep within lungs.

 

I had customer tell me to get off the property duing an install once! (I saw a copy of a cctv mag that was just delivered, and they decided to do it themselves. Guess who got a call later to fix a mess)?

 

I think most DVRs die because of power issues. Maybe we should sell more line conditioners!!

 

 

And finally, when you use a computer, you have access to other things right there. It is easy to take a screen shot and then clean it up/use high quality digital zoom algorithms using a software package like Adobe Photoshop. Furthermore, if you take care of your computer (ie - antivirus, antispy, clear your caches, be a smart internet user, etc), you can easily use it to multitask - do your books, research products, etc.....

 

For other things?? If I walk in to a house, and I look at your tool bar and you have 17 tool bars, and helpers than I do not want to sell you a computer based DVR, and I do not care how many of your neighbors are willing to steal your stuff!!! YIKES!

 

I love watching people's eyes bulge out of their heads after I do a quick scan, and all of those spyware pops up, and then we get into the Trojans!!!

Wu Hu!! as that bank says!!!

 

 

And now finally, I prefer to work with small business because I really understand the situation they are in. Fact is, sometimes its about making a decision between good enough and too expensive, know what I mean? To do your location properly (so you get multiple angles, lots of high quality face shots), you're likely looking at around double your budget. However, if you set things up properly (and have some help along the way), you can stretch your dollars out significantly while getting 'good enough' coverage.....

 

 

You sound like you know what you are talking about!! Good job!!

Find a niche market, and sell it deep. Sounds like you have found that, and more!! You must be very successfull with this clientle. There are large numbers of these customers as well!!

 

Spend more...... Good advice again! That is a true statement. I back you up 100 percent on that one!

 

Streching your dollars....... Another find piece of advice. Sounds like you have been in this business for a very long time!

 

I agree with what you say, but I feel really bad about being a scammer, and being the guy who sells junk, and the junk that I am selling is not going to last very long, and it is going to be a constant battle to keep it running!!!

 

I was having a good day, but now I feel like it is time to go home early!

Yeesh! I was having a good day!

 

I am trying to sell something. I think that is why they call it a job. If people would buy these from me without a sales pitch then I would be happy!! I would love to stop playing the guessing game!!

 

Is this a customer who has a need? Is this a customer who is kicking tires, but will eventually buy something? Is this the guy who is pumping with a bunch of questions so he can buy something at the discount internet site??

 

Is this the guy who comes back and screams at me because the stuff he bought on the discount website broke down, or he has a problem with it, and I am supposed to fix it, or give him advice for free???

 

Sometimes I do, as maybe he learned a lesson, and down the road he might send someone my way in thanks. Then again this guy may take me for all of the info a second time, and never send anyone my way!

 

Do I pay for a store front to look professional, or should I just close up, and sell at a flea market??

 

I can sell out of trunk of my car. Less overhead. More profit! Hmmm!

 

Ding! Ding! What does this customer need??

 

Info! I have lots of CCTV info for you!! You better look at this computer monitor at my website. You had better sit down, and bring a lunch as it is going to take you a while!!!! LOL!!

 

A scammer with something to sell. Oh boy! I am in trouble!

Edited June 4, 2008 by Guest

[RickA 0]

Absolutely the best piece of writing and factual statements that I have seen from your creative side yet, Scorpion I am in total awe!!! You have stated exactly what I was thinking, Thank you!

[alanjh1965 0]

Scorpian for PRESIDENT

 

PHEW ! Scorpian you had better go and have a lay down for a while. But what a great post.

 

 

In my mind, a standalone DVR is a giant scam. You are paying really good money for a hard drive with some buttons on the front. Yes, they are easy to set up. Yes, they are easy to put the images online. Yes, they are easy to secure. They are also prone to break. Hard to fix. And they only do one thing - record/'serve" video.

 

I have never seen a Blue Screen of Death on a DVR.

 

It really does come down to 'You get what you Pay for and 'Buy in Haste Repent at Leisure'

 

This sounds like an advert but I buy DM which is expensive but you get a 3 Year Warranty on the DVR's (4 on Domes) and also I get advance replacement on products under 6 months old. I have a dedicated account manager who calls in at the shop and will pass on sales leads.

 

I get more problems with the budget DVR's I sold just to make a fast buck and I can tell you it is not worth the hassle.

 

I too am sick off time wasters coming into the shop to ask for advice and then go to Maplins and buy some crappy wireless, battery powered camera.

 

The CCTV industry is rapidly changing, more people are installing their own systems, instead of hiring a professional, no wonder the industry is getting a bad name when you see images on the news from robberies that are out of focus or unuseable in a court of law.

 

Those of us that are in it for the long haul are going to have to adapt and change with new technologies, MegaPixel and IP are coming weather we like it or not.

 

Time for a Beer

[scorpion 0]

I just got back from lunch at 1:45, and I was feeling sleepy. I think my alter ego wrote the post!

 

 

Hey Rick,

First time I have never heard any complaints about my "novels"!!! LOL!!

Edited June 4, 2008 by Guest

[scorpion 0]

In my mind, a standalone DVR is a giant scam. You are paying really good money for a hard drive with some buttons on the front. Yes, they are easy to set up. Yes, they are easy to put the images online. Yes, they are easy to secure. They are also prone to break. Hard to fix. And they only do one thing - record/'serve" video.

 

This is the best sales pitch I have ever heard in favor of a stand alone DVR!

 

I think I am going to use this in my flyers, and my website!

 

LOL!

 

 

You know what your Dad says? About wanting this system as a deterrent? There is really strong science to back up what he says. Social psychologists have proven on many different occasions and in many different studies that people behave differently when they know they are being watched. The simple act of setting up cameras will dramatically change behaviour.

 

Yes! They do! They put on hats, and sunglasses before they walk in to a bank, and they make a request written on paper!!

[C7 in CA 0]

I've had clients that wouldn't leave their store prior to me installing systems with remote view. Sure they can see what happened the next day and take corrective actions. But these guys are passionate about what they do. They insist on preventing issues before they become problems; not simply fixing it after the fact. Now one of them I know personally feels comfortable only working 12 hours a day instead of 16.

 

And if you are going to showcase what the cameras are seeing to employees and customers you better have all your bases covered. Whether they are good guys or a bad guys they are going to size up the system and look for weak spots.

 

 

Interesting discussion!

[scorpion 0]

Jan 1 08 to June 4 08

 

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video server 1.0.6.3

 

 

MAYBE HE IS RIGHT?? MUST BE A BAD DVR, AND EVERYONE IS BUYING THEM!!

[rory 0]

Wow at this thread!

 

Anyway my quick 5 cents. There's places where PC DVRs cant go, and a stand alone can (depending on the DVR ofcourse) such as hot dusty environments, small closet shelves, etc. Cost of a basic stand alone DVR is almost 1/4 the price of a basic PC DVR (using decent enough parts ofcourse). There are places where I would definitely prefer a PC DVR also, I can change the parts if they go bad, in country and fast, the features blow away even most of the expensive large brand name stand alones - mind some more expensive yet PC DVR priced equivalent OEM stand alones of late have highly impressed me with their features.

 

I get alot of emails, Scorpion knows, those $50 DVRs from Asia for example. It might not have LAN, but hey it doesnt crash either, it just records and thats about it, hence Digital Video Recorder. But its not your GeoVision DVR thats for sure - its near featureLESS.

 

Anyway, we've been through this over the years quite a few times, it really depends on one's clientel, and support one can get and or give on the product. A $50 DVR is great but useless if its going to cost us $150 to ship it back anytime it goes bad. If we sell 5,000 of them though, and only a couple go bad, we made out good enough to afford that expense.

 

PC DVRs .. oh yeah .. was buulding them for a while as many know, and supporting them, writing the odd software for them, etc, mainly GeoVision. Anyway, lately you would goto order PC Parts and the next day they are gone, out of stock or discontinued - then you need to order completely different parts. Its really annoying. less you prebuild dozens of them, its tough keeping up with the hardware these days, and pricing too. Building to order became pointless to me, I stopped selling them for now.

 

But ofcourse look at where I live .. tings different down here dred.

[rory 0]

Oh yeah and to answer the OPs post, bottom line is it depends on Budget and how experienced, or at least how confident you are, with PC parts and or learning how to adjust cameras - course a cheap bullet camera needs little adjustment, but selecting the right camera for the job can use some knowledge and experience.

 

Ofcourse the forum is here for these reasons so ask away.

 

How good are your parents with the PC, if you arent there they will need to know what to do in the case of .. whatever .. eg. Windows doesnt come back up ..DVR stopped recording .. or the cops need to get video off it. In other words are they PC literate? If not, then best bet is with a basic stand alone DVR, nothing too fancy in that area either, as they themselves can be confusing also.

[Rebco 0]

Just remember, the difference between a good install and a bad install happens before you drill a single hole. Good installers take the time to draw everything out using graph paper, rulers and a protractor. A camera sees in a cone - the distance between the two 'lines' is the camera's angle of view. Plot everything out and try some different camera set ups. As far as lens/sensor choice, feel free to contact me directly and I can give you some more resources....

I agree but what happend to being a good installer you design a great system and them give them crappy chinese cards with Pico (or other crap)software? Tell me how that makes you a good installer or am i missing something, You can give them the best cameras in the world 20 megapixels and it would still be worthless if a lawyer starts asking questions if it was altered in someway, Ye i will spend $300 dollars for a camera and then save my video onto a $200 DVR. WOW 16 camera Dvr for less than $400. Makes sense I guess i have been doing it all wrong all these years. What can your card do better than a quaity pc based dvr or stand alone for that matter? I try to get people to buy quality items when thay can afford it But Ebay items that i will have to service. thanks but no thanks....I don't want the headache or the bad name...

 

 

 

Yes. Luckly we have started a CCTV rehab foundation.

 

Why was I not sent a membership letter?

Edited June 5, 2008 by Guest

[scorpion 0]

The CCTV industry is rapidly changing, more people are installing their own systems, instead of hiring a professional, no wonder the industry is getting a bad name when you see images on the news from robberies that are out of focus or unuseable in a court of law.

 

I do not know why, but this quote kept "ringing" in my head. As I thought about it.

 

I remember in the old days as a kid where I would be standing at an open window, and I would be looking at a TV, and I would be screaming out the window "right there dad! No, you went to far! Turn it back a little! No, the other way!"

 

My dad would be up on the roof reorienting the TV antenna after it blew "off course" from the wind.

 

In those days didn't everybody do their own antenna? We used any kind of pipe we could find! If it was in a garbage pile, and it was long, then it was gone!!

 

As that quote went through my head I think about today where I call a cable company to come out, and resolve my issues. They used to run a cable for free, but now they charge for that.

 

Will there be a company that rents you CCTV equipment in the future, and we just call them to resolve an issue?? In the future will everyone stop looking for those "long pipes in the garbage" and rely on a company to do it for us?

 

In the future what CCTV company will have the JD POWERS trophy to claim number one in customer service?

 

As I see it, down the road the DIY will probably go by the way side for the majority of us.

 

I see a day where the mega corps will be buying out every mom n pop CCTV business, and forming a giant consortium.

 

HMMMM. Food for thought!

[RickA 0]

Scorpion and what is the price for yours? As usual there goes the tech support.

[alanjh1965 0]

My dad would be up on the roof reorienting the TV antenna after it blew "off course" from the wind.

 

and I bet he wasn't even wearing a full safety harness, hard hat, high vis vest, safety boots

[scorpion 0]

and I bet he wasn't even wearing a full safety harness, hard hat, high vis vest, safety boots

 

You got that right!

 

LOL!

 

Why was I not sent a membership letter?

 

You were given a LifeTime Memebership prepaid. You must have missed the memo.

 

Scorpion and what is the price for yours?

 

My what?

 

With purchase then tech support is free, (with some limitations).

I try to figure things out over the phone, and then I will drive out to the location. If the DVR is not recording then I am out there right away.

 

Without purchase, then I will give you 15 minutes of free time to take a look at "it", but they have to bring it to the shop themselves. If it can be worked on then I will quote a price for repairs. If I fix it, I may not charge so that I can gain a customer.

 

If I have to drive out to a location then it is $50 for residential, and $100.00 for commercial.

 

I try not to charge $100.00 just to plug the power strip back in. I try to explain that you cannot unplug the cord from the wall to make room for another plug, and that the power strip will not work when it is plugged in to itself.

 

If a stranger with a product comes in with an attitude, and it is not a product that we sold, then I may not help him/her at all!

[RickA 0]

You missed the mark on that one Scorpion, was asking how much to sell your business to the large consortium, and then there goes the tech support!

[Rebco 0]

Hey Rick, Scorpion is the mega corporation, Hes just here to see what the little guys like me and you are doing....

[RickA 0]

forgot, must be getting ready to buy out the Bahama group.