Are the cheap IR illuminator from Amazon worth anything?

[Gesualdo 0]

Hi,

 

Are the cheap IR illuminators on Amazon.com; made by clover, lorex, and others worth anything at all to use orr just a waste of money? $30-$50 range. I don't need long distance only supplimental.

[emardiv3 0]

the old saying is you get what you pay for.., also ir is only good on b/w camera's and some high end limited color cams.. if distance is not an issue then cheap may work just learn about nano meters also know the lux ability of your camera's when ordering ir.

[robert 0]

Hi,

 

Are the cheap IR illuminators on Amazon.com; made by clover, lorex, and others worth anything at all to use orr just a waste of money? $30-$50 range. I don't need long distance only supplimental.

 

NO WAY, waste of money. You wont want to look at those pictures, trust me

As long as its not ExtremeCCTV or "Raytec" IR illuminator, its rubbish. I try not to use iR at all, instead normal 500W illuminators. Whats the point of having foggy grey image? Anyway you cant see faces properly.

[CraigVM62 0]

I have had a few budget installations where cheap IR Cameras did surprisingly well. The demands on them were limited as they just had to provide an image where people could be identified at closer ranges. I don't have any images captured, but found one online showing the type of results I have typically had.

 

 

These were with very cheap IR 4-9mm Day / Night Cameras that I picked up for under $90 and can be found from many sources including FLebay. No doubt they fall well short in the eyes of those who have seen high end IR solutions. These customers were amazed at the fact that a decent image could be captured in complete darkness and thought such technology would have cost many times what they paid. I have found that the actual IR illumination is around 1/3 of what they advertise though.

 

[Sawbones 0]

I'm currently experimenting with a handful of different illuminators. I'm spending my own money, and I didn't feel like spending 1K on an extremeCCTV illuminator, so I ordered an array of cheapos from Ebay (Hong Kong specials), and a couple from supercircuits, like this one:

 

 

I've got about half of them in my hands so far, and the supercircuits models provide the most even illumination of the lot... they spread about 45 degrees, and provide about 15-20 feet of usable IR (nowhere near the 30 feet advertised... buyer beware). A couple of those scattered along a hallway, alleyway, or the side of a building might do just fine for a short-range application. At $50 each, you could also get a handful of them for a fraction of what an extremeCCTV model would cost, though with admittedly less range. What's nice is that you'd get redundancy, and you're not hosed if an 8-900 dollar illuminator goes tango-uniform on you.

 

************** EDIT ****************

 

Update time:

 

Got a couple of these:

 

 

They're roughly the equal of the super-circuits models in terms of illumination, and at the same price point (approx $50 each). The Ebay model linked above (can be found here: http://cgi.ebay.com/Outdoor-Waterproof-IR-Led-Night-Cam-Array-Illuminator_W0QQitemZ230298047206QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item230298047206&_trkparms=72%3A1423%7C39%3A1%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14 ) has the advantage of allowing you to adjust focus and beam spread... it also looks more waterproof than the super-circuits model. At this point, the Ebay model has the edge.

 

And then there's this model:

 

 

Not nearly as impressive. It's certainly very bright, but only about a 30-degree beam spread (much less spread than advertised). It also has moving parts... an internal fan that audibly whirs when the unit powers up. It also ran for all of an hour before crapping out... literally flickering off-and-on for the rest of the night.

 

I'd avoid that one.

 

I also have a couple of these:

 

 

They're a bit brighter than the super-circuits model... but with much less beam spread. They're much more of a spot-light than a flood. They also get pretty damned hot when running, and I have doubts about their weather resistance.

 

So that's what I know so far.

[Sawbones 0]

So you want some infrared illuminators to use with your security system? You've probably looked at the dark, grainy images produced by many security cameras at night, and wondered if there was a way to brighten up those images.

 

First, some background.

 

As anybody with a video surveillance system knows, most day-night cameras do NOT function in complete darkness. They switch to black-and-white mode when the ambient light drops to a low enough level, but even a low-lux-sensitive camera is blind without some sort of supplemental light. Fortunately, CCDs (the actual "eye" inside many modern security cameras) are sensitive to wavelengths of light that are invisible to the naked eye, specifically the near-infrared band. It's possible to brightly illuminate a scene with infrared light, while having it appear pitch-black to the unaided eye.

 

Some cameras, including many cheaper bullet-cam varieties, include some form of built-in IR. At first glance, this would seem to kill multiple birds with one stone: camera and supplemental light source in a single package, less wiring, simplified installation, etc. However, there are significant drawbacks to this arrangement.

 

One notable limitation is that camera-mounted IR sources attract bugs... lot of them. Humans can't see infrared light, but many insects and animals CAN... and they're drawn to that light; the proverbial moth-to-a-flame. This is mostly an annoyance, unless you're using motion-detection with your cameras, DVR, or camera server software. In that scenario, the bugs flying into the lens will continually trigger your motion detection, and fill up your storage media with all sorts of images that you don't want. This greatly increases your signal-to-noise ratio, and may lead you to turn off your motion detection entirely.

 

Camera-mounted IR also gives away the location of your cameras. The vast majority of IR sources for security cameras are in the 880nm range. These are dimly visible to the naked eye as a dull red glowing light, and they may catch the eye of the very person you're attempting to discretely observe. There are IR sources that are truly covert/invisible to the naked eye, however these run in the 940nm range, and are significantly more expensive. It's also more difficult to find security cameras with good spectral response to the 940nm wavelengths, meaning that your regular CCD cameras may not benefit from the expensive 940nm illuminator you just purchased.

 

Many dome cameras also have built-in IR, some of which can be reflected back within the dome, interfering with the functioning of the camera. In addition, the polycarbonate domes that are frequently used on vandal-resistant cameras cut down on the transmission of the IR light, robbing your camera of yet more performance.

 

Fortunately, it doesn't have to be that way. This is where IR illuminators come in.

 

Illuminators run the gamut in terms of price, features, durability, water-resistance, etc. Even with all their differences, most modern illuminators have similarities in that they are LED-based, and run on DC current (requires a power supply).

 

I was surfing Ebay one day, and my curiosity got the better of me. They have a number of LED IR illuminators for sale there, and I wondered if any of them were a bargain (you can easily spend $1000+ on a high-end illuminator!) I ordered a handful of them, along with a couple from US-based super-circuits, to see how well they would work.

 

First two:

Link to supercircuits (model on left)

Link to Ebay (model on right)

 

 

Second two:

 

Link to Ebay (model on left)

Link to Ebay (model on right)

 

 

Last one:

Link to RayLED (british company)

 

Here is the scene where these lights will be tested. This is a daytime view, through a 420TVL day-night armored dome camera. This particular camera has built-in IR that is advertised to go 100 feet. However, as you're going to see with the camera and most of these IR sources, their "estimates" of range are wildly optimistic. You can pretty much cut the advertised range in half right off the top. The distance to the corner you can see in the picture is about 40 feet, and the illuminators will be tested by being mounted about 20 feet away, just off-camera along the right-hand wall, roughly focused on the same spot perpendicular to the camera's view. If that doesn't make sense, it will as soon as you see the pictures

 

Daytime view:

 

Night time view (with only the built-in camera IR operating). Ignore the IR light you can see coming from around the corner... that's another IR source and another camera. We're mostly concerned with the area between this camera, and the corner:

 

 

 

 

First, the super-circuits model. As you can see, it throws a dim pool of IR light, with a fair amount of dispersion. In contrast to what you're going to see from some of the other illuminators, it's more of a flood light than a spot-light. You can barely see me standing at the edge of the illuminated area. I will be standing in exactly the same spot for all of these pictures.

 

 

 

Second, we see the round, puck-like, 40-LED Ebay model. Compared to the super-circuits model, it's brighter, and the beam is tighter. It also gets quite a bit hotter when operating.

 

 

Third, we hook up the square floodlight-appearing Ebay model with 140 LEDs. This one's the brightest of the lot so far (as you might expect with the higher number of LEDs). It also has a cooling fan inside that whirs audibly when powered up. However, there is no visible vent area for the hot air to escape the case, leading me to doubt the effectiveness of the cooling fan. The included power supply also died within an hour of being hooked up.

 

 

Fourth, we connect the tubular round-lensed model. This one seems to be a much higher-quality unit, and also gives one the ability to focus the IR beam by adjustments to the lens. It provides very even illumination, without hot-spots, though it's a little dim compared to some of the other lights.

 

 

Last, we hooked up the RayMax50. This industrial-strength thing puts out some serious IR light, and adjusts from a 120 degree beam angle to 180 degrees (you're seeing the 120-degree setting in this picture). The angle adjustment allows one to illuminate the entire side of a structure with a single device, if desired. This all comes at a steep price, of course; almost ten times the cost of some of the other units:

 

 

I can't say anything about long-term reliability with any of these units, but they all do seem to work as advertised, with the aforementioned caveat about the limitations of their stated range. Even the RayMax doesn't seem to reach out quite as far as company literature claims.

 

I should point out that ANY of these illuminators would be sufficient for a person wearing a proper set of NODs. I tested all of these illuminators with gen2 and gen3 NVGs and found that even the cheapest illuminator (or simply the camera's built-in IR) literally turned night into day. It may be hard to appreciate in these pictures, but the entire area we're viewing is pitch-dark to the naked eye... positively stygian... but wire up a couple of these illuminators and don a set of NVGs, and it literally turns it into daylight with even second-gen goggles.

 

Hope this information helps somebody.

 

 

****************** EDIT *******************

 

Second set of pictures, taken with the same illuminators, in the same order, only these are from a WDR panasonic dome.

 

 

 

 

 

[Lucashugh82 0]

I wonder if there is any way to spread out the beam on the 140 led one....Since that is the one I bought 1 week ago before reading this forum. It has not arrived yet so still waiting.

 

It looks similar to the British one just with out some kind of diffuser... Im sure it is not the same quality but I wonder if there is something I could put over it to diffuse the light...

 

By the way to any of those lights have sensors to turn them on and off?

[VST_Man 1]

now, take a regular motion light and turn it on.......post that result.

 

my point is this. why use something "special" when something "simple" works better?

 

IR has it's place............I always recommend and install regular lighting outdoors as it is easily maintained by the Owner/users.

 

I appreciate the information you provided here...........but KISS is my way whenever I can figure it out

[Erron S. 0]

now, take a regular motion light and turn it on.......post that result.

 

my point is this. why use something "special" when something "simple" works better?

 

IR has it's place............I always recommend and install regular lighting outdoors as it is easily maintained by the Owner/users.

 

I appreciate the information you provided here...........but KISS is my way whenever I can figure it out

 

Let me first say that this is a wonderful comparison. I'm sure I speak for us all when we say 'thank you' for taking the time to do this and show us your results, that's fantastic.

 

I do have to say i'm with VST man on this one. I shouldn't be, I've sold well over 10k of the IR bullets and domes in my career but they have their place. They are often sold as a convience. We need light out there and the camera comes with it in one simple package that's all low voltage. Many times a 500 watt halogen would have been better but most guys are low voltage and not electrical contractors or licensened for high voltage.

 

IR is pro/con technology in my humble opinion. For instance, why are their IR cut filters on some of the higher end cameras? IR in general has a tendency to make images fuzzy and noisy when used with CCD's. (charge coupled device) This is also true and entends to the photography industry especially when talking about hi-res DSLR cameras. That's why IR cut filters are becoming more common place in high end lenses and cameras, they want to keep that light out if possible to preserve image quality. Having said that, IR is a good technology for COVERT applications. Is my driveway a covert application, no. I like light. It not only helps the camera to see better but serves as a deterent to would-be criminals. My house is not a dark spot they can hide in. It's brightly lit and if you walk over here you can see everything including the camera watching you.

 

Ok, ok, I'm droning on and on... When it comes down to it and you can do it with regular light sources, use them. Cost is lower, cameras see better, cost of replacement is cheaper, and it's a light that everyone can use, not just the cameras.

[Sawbones 0]

I fully agree with you gentlemen on the usefulness of IR. It's far more expensive than visible light, only provides a black-and-white images, and the image quality is worse than visible light. It's also very difficult to evaluate the effectiveness of it without mounting it (along with the planned camera), adjusting it, and actually physically looking at the images.

 

That's why I put up the comparisons... somebody might save a few bucks on Ebay by buying what they need instead of what the marketing tells them to buy.

 

I went with IR around my residence for two main reasons. first, it's discrete. Secondly, my HOA doesn't like floodlights... they emphasize "accent lighting" or indirect lighting of a structure (soffit-mounted down-lighting, ground-mounted accent lights, etc). I have those things on my home, but they light the home itself, and do very little to light the area around the home. IR combined with the appropriate cameras seemed like the natural (if expensive) solution.

 

It can work... for example, here is an image from the side of my home, courtesy of a WDR panasonic dome. It's likewise pitch-black at night, but is IR-illuminated by one of the tubular Ebay lensed illuminators (providing most of the lighting, and quite evenly too), with a little help from one of the supercircuits puck illuminators (provides the spot of IR light you see on the tree in the far end of the view).

 

 

I frankly enjoy playing with these things, and I don't mind throwing up a few pictures if it will help somebody out.

[thewireguys 3]

Nice work Sawbones!!!! Very in formative.

[scorpion 0]

Hey sawbones!

 

Job well done! That was great! I appreciate your time, and effort!

 

You have visualized what I try to explain to people in regards to Illumination intesity verses distance!

 

http://scorpiontheater.com/irlab.aspx

[rory 0]

Hey sawbones!

 

Job well done! That was great! I appreciate your time, and effort!

 

You have visualized what I try to explain to people in regards to Illumination intesity verses distance!

 

http://scorpiontheater.com/irlab.aspx

 

Im trying to stay clear of IR cameras now, eyes have issues with them either caused by testing so much high powered IR Lighting over the years, or just old age.

[scorpion 0]

Hey Rory!

 

How are you doing? I know you have been around, but I have not been on the same post with you in a long time!

 

I have been so busy that I only look in on the DVR threads.

 

How are things going with you?

 

 

 

Hey sawbones!

 

In your daylight photograph I see that you have many trees in the yard. I will assume that you have a large "canopy" over the area.

 

Would you be kind enough to point one of the stronger "spotlight" illuminator on in to the canopy? I am thinking that the canopy will diffuse the spot, and bounce the IR back down. I believe this would actually benefit the video shot.

 

On a second shot I would have you point the spot upwards, and then take one of the "weaker" IR illuminators, and point as you allready have, and then with the two I think you would have a "perfect" IR illuminated video shot.

 

Would you be kind enough to post those pictures?

 

Also:

 

Another reason that I like your photos is that I try to teach my customers that it is just like a photographer setting up for a photo shoot. They always have those "silver umbrellas", and they bounce their flash off of these umbrellas, and then they hold a flash with one hand to the side away from the camera towards the subject.

 

In your pictures I can see the hotspot from the brightest illuminator, and I can see the fade of the weaker illuminator, and I also can see the the illumination is not even throught out the illumination area. You can see a "cold spot" with in the area of illumination on the ground.

 

It reminds me of cheap flashlights when you point them at a wall, and you see the direct light from the bulb is weak, but the light bouncing from the mirror behind the bulb has a stronger illumination, or the bulb size creates a shadow within the illuminated area.

 

What do you think?

[rory 0]

Hey Scorp, right here, same thing different day.

Yeah a tip on making IR spots work better also is to mount it lower and point it up higher, off the ground almost, and if there is a reflective surface just short of the max distance of the IR then you can get a nice wide area of light. Thats the nice thing about the UF100 and UF500s where you can buy the beam width you need and also adjust the output power to cut back on the light if needed also - in addition you can choose which nm you would like which also effects the light distance and coverage.

[dudu_georgescu 0]

Gentlemen, a question for you: do the IR illuminators automatically turn off during the day and on during the night?

[Sawbones 0]

Yes. Most have a built-in photocell, so you simply wire them up and forget about it.

 

Howver, some do not, even some of the higher-end models. I have a couple of American Dynamics illuminators (AD1020 series). I don't think they're making them anymore, but they have great performance, and run off of 12V (actually 13.3V, but we're not splitting hairs here)

 

 

Unless you buy the PSU to go with it (they're quite expensive... to the tune of about $700 each), you have to wire up your own photocell.

 

Or you could just put it on a timer.

[zmxtech 0]

good test !

 

tho I must say only one real IR illuminator was used the rest are Ebay toys.

 

If a properly spec`ed`IR unit a Extreme cctv, rayled,cantroncs or microlight was used your whole backyard would be lit up like a xmas tree.

 

The other problem was most cameras see IR by accident not by design.

If you had of used an "IR camera" say a extreme FSX-800 the difference would be amazing.

 

keep the good work up

[troep 0]

Some time ago that this topic was made but I do have some extra info that can be usefull.

 

First of i'm an engineer that makes all sorts of lights and elektronics for companies.

 

I Also made IR illuminators and circuits for controlling them.

 

All the Ebay and cheap illuminators use just steady DC input voltages. It means that the leds are on all the time.

 

Just take A datasheet from let's say an LD274 that's an infrared led 940nm. If you are using this led for normal steady DC operation you can feed this led 20ma of power. If you pulse this led you can feed this led 1A over a time frame of 100 microseconds. This also means that the led is giving out more light (in MW because lux is not for invisible light).

 

The Rayled is one of the models that is likely to be pulsed. De leds are setup in a matrix and for example every 100microseconds a set of leds are lighting up. Having 10 sets of these leds and when they are switching on and of they appear to be all on.

 

But I can't be sure if this is the case. I can say a lot more about this of someone can open up his raymax and take some photo's of the PCB and so on. If someone can do that they can email me the photo's to troep[AT]isbelangrijk.nl

 

I can then post back more info on this forum. So we can all benefit from the info if it's better to get a pulsed illuminator then an non pulsed steady DC ulliminator.

 

Also you have to look at the angle that the leds are sending out. Using 100 degrees pulsed leds give you more IR light than 30 degree pulsed.

[rayled 0]

Hello,

 

It is nice to discover that forum.

 

I read this tread, and I do have some details to explains.

 

1) RayLED distances are given for 1/3" CCD size.

It means that if an illuminator distance is 100 meters, it will be less if you use a 1/4" CCD size and it will be greater with a 1/2" CCD size.

Moreover, if you use an ExView Type CCD, so the best is a 1/2" ExView CCD...

For example RayMAX 300 PLATINUM in 5° can reach 700 meters (and 1000 meters with 2 units) and we do recomend 1/2" ExView camera for that.

 

2) For PULSED units, the IR is not OFF and ON when PULSED.

The unit is always ON, but when you trigger it it PULSE far more power (a bit like a photo flash) but on a short periode.

 

Best regards

 

Aymeric JALABERT

sales@RayLED.com

 

http://www.RayLED.com

[troep 0]

@Rayled: Really always on? Don't you drive your powerleds using pulses? So you can drive more current through the leds? + powersaving because not all the leds are on at the same time (Well for your eyes they are offcourse and the camera).

 

I got building into IR illumination with my work and my current simple ir illuminator just get's pretty far. I got it now to 25 meter (see pics). And with some trics with a plastic layer I get a nice spread.

 

All with just conventional 5mm led's. A pain in the *** to solder them all. But my work just haven't got 880nm or 940nm IR 5 watt led's in stock (every other RGB color we do have in stock for street lightingfixtures and 10 watt+).

 

But pulsing led's will give some more light* or let us say mW's. But I always build pulsed led matrix circuits for power savings. The more led's you have the more current and watts you'll need. Some extra elektronics can save you current and the camera won't notice it.

 

When using powerleds (1 watt or more) you really wan't to pulse these if you are using a lot of them in your array. So to save energy

 

Then again you don't have to tell me how you are building your illuminators, because that's a company secret I presume.

 

*= The more light you get depends on the speed that you led diode needs to get to the specified mW's

 

This post is starting to get technical. And we just wanted to know if those cheap Ebay illuminators where any good. With a simple modification you can really get a nice spread.

[onamish 0]

G'day all, I've been involved with CCTV for the last few years.. Crime rate up, so are the cams!

 

A little too much unwanted notice by the local constabulary at first for my liking, but nothing to hide so not too concerned.

 

Anyways, just want to say that there are some really great posts here to help disseminate fact from fiction and save others the hours of research we have done in the past.

 

One point not made is that the new LED ARRAY illuminators are stronger than the past led illuminators and operate cleaner and more efficiently. I'm achieveing more cleaner light in a 9 led array as I did from a 140led illuminator.

 

 

 

Have a question though that requires input/feedback:

I was asssured by a chinese manaufacturer that they provided me with a 120degree illuminator.

Basic geometry suggests otherwise.

 

IMAG0407- Illuminator at 1m high

 

IMAG0408 - Illuminator at 3m high

 

 

 

Thanks