Isn't there a good all around camera that exists!?

[3RDIGLBL 0]

OK. I have a really simple issue, I think LOL!

 

I am trying to find a decently priced camera and by decent I've tried a few I have in stock that are in the mid hundreds, I then tried a higher end Toshiba camera that was in the mid $300's and I sent that back and tried another in the $200 range and darn it I can't find a good low light camera that works good at night and handles a bright sun in the day. I tried a WDR that was really bad at night as it was not true D/N I then tried a non WDR low light true D/N camera which worked well last night but I find the focus shift is just too darn bad. I focus during the day and as soon as the filter clicks away the picture gets unfocused so I then focus it nice and crisp for the night and when day comes back it is unfocused again.....ARG! I just logged into the DVR and the sun is out in full force this morning. Next to the building is shaded and in the parking lot is sunny. Well forget about trying to make anything out in the parking lot. It is so bright in the parking lot it's useless. I'm sure this is seen all the time, how do you get the best of night time and the best of day time in one camera without telling the customer that something that appears to be simple will cost them an arm and a leg to correct?

 

Isn't there a camera that is just plain good all around?

 

Getting expensive on shipping charges just sending camera's back and fourth to try one that will work well.

 

This is what I think I need. A low lux below .01 (true D/N) because the nearest light is across the street so it is a lowly lit area. A WDR because of the sun in the day and maybe a pixel based WDR that can compensate for the bright spots in the parking lot while still maintaining a nice picture in the shaded areas. I can't break the bank on it and I would prefer one under $300 but could go slightly higher if needed.

 

I've tried name brand and non-name brand cameras with no luck yet.

[Smit9352 0]

This is a image of the picture that he's trying to see.

(I'm on the phone with him now)

 

I recommended him a WDR camera or a True Day/Night camera because keep in mind this is a box camera outside and will need to be able to see at night.

 

Anyone got any good suggestions let's hear them!

Rick or Scorp, where you at?

 

http://img398.imageshack.us/my.php?image=92401507we6.jpg

[3RDIGLBL 0]

OK from what I am reading I am going to try the Panasonic CP-484. A little pricey but I read some good reviews.

 

I just want one that works well all around.

[griffonsystems 0]

you wont be disappointed with the 484 its a very good camera, just make sure to get a good lens 2 - computar, tamron, fujinon, etc

[RickA 0]

I think you will be happy with the panny and a good lens, has been a good camera.

[CollinR 0]

Good alll around the panasonic WV-CP484 is really hard to beat. Combined with a low F IR corrected lens and you have a real winner. Heck the 484 doesn't even need the IR corrected lens it will automatically rebackfocus when the filter opens.

 

However it's like x2 you price range, but "good" and "all-around" costs money x2. Maybe you should consider a BW option or changing the mounting location.

 

Also super dark and pointed into the sun is not a good combination.

 

If you think the cam you have now is good enough just get a day/night lens for it to minimize the focus shift.

[3RDIGLBL 0]

Ya it is pricey but I sucked it up to make that impression to the customer. When your a young business sometimes you gotta do that I guess. I'm not losing money but I am making less than I otherwise would have.

 

So the latest camera I was disappointed in is the ARM CX550DN. I am using 2.7 - 13.5mm Fujinon D/N lenses on them and the focus shift was something that can not be ignored. I was on the phone with their tech support and they said this camera was more subjected to it but they blamed the CFL lights I have in the office as a possible problem, because it shouldn't be that bad. I moved the camera outside in a housing and stuck around the office until late at night to play around with it. I adjusted in the day so it was crystal clear then when night roled around and it switched to night mode everything went blurry. Not to the point where nothing could be made out but noticable. I re-adjusted it during the evening and it was back crystal clear again. Day time roled around and it was unclear and also had a picture that Smit9352 had posted. I gave up on that ARM camera for sure.

 

I should be receiving the Pano's tomorrow so I am anxious to try them out. Customer better be happy with the effort I'm putting in here...LOL

 

If those Panasonics are as good as they say I will be getting more in the furture. Don't mind paying for a camera that lives up to it's cost.

[thewireguys 3]

Let us know what you think of the Panasonic. I have quoted 4 of them for a upcoming job and I would like to hear if they live up to the hype.

[RickA 0]

If you ever use a vandal dome for any of those you might want to try our V39AI, you will probably have to find a dealer or distributor in your area. I liked this camera when I tested it and it is very weather proof, with a IP67 rating. With the switch setting to day only it will operate in color in lowlight conditions, and I believe it is very affordable, course I usually don't pay attention to prices, I try to stick to the technical end of this stuff. If you try this one let me know what you think of it.

[3RDIGLBL 0]

All I can say is wow what a HUGE difference. The camera is always compensating for brightness differences, awesome but a crap load of menu items some of which are new to me for adjustments. I'm assuming defaults are typically OK?

 

Before with the ARM with sun in the driveway:

 

 

This is with the CP484 default settings with sun in the driveway and more shadows:

 

This is an inside shot of the two cameras side by side. You can see the back of my head showing that the BLC works well on the ARM but everything else is pretty darn bright. Guess which is which?!?

 

Both cameras are using a Fujinon D/N 2.7mm-13.5mm Lens.

 

Hope this answers some questions. It is boxed strangly though inside an aircusion container insert instead of the typical boxed container insert or foam padding insert.

[Smit9352 0]

Awsome results and thank you for posting them!

RickA and Griffonsystems good recommendation on that camera it looks like it did him some good!

 

Good find Chuck!

Thanks,

John

[ak357 0]

All I can say is wow what a HUGE difference. The camera is always compensating for brightness differences, awesome but a crap load of menu items some of which are new to me for adjustments. I'm assuming defaults are typically OK?

 

Before with the ARM with sun in the driveway:

 

 

This is with the CP484 default settings with sun in the driveway and more shadows:

 

This is an inside shot of the two cameras side by side. You can see the back of my head showing that the BLC works well on the ARM but everything else is pretty darn bright. Guess which is which?!?

 

Both cameras are using a Fujinon D/N 2.7mm-13.5mm Lens.

 

Hope this answers some questions. It is boxed strangly though inside an aircusion container insert instead of the typical boxed container insert or foam padding insert.

 

Why u have so high resolution ?

can u post original D1 or whatever is original

thx

[3RDIGLBL 0]

I was posting to show the glare difference not the resolution differences. These pictures are screen shots taken from doing a print-screen so no matter how I do it they wouldn't look as good anyhow.

 

But looking at the pictures you see the diffences in picture from one camera to the other which is what I was trying to do.

 

Sorry I cannot do any better than this.

[ak357 0]

I was posting to show the glare difference not the resolution differences. These pictures are screen shots taken from doing a print-screen so no matter how I do it they wouldn't look as good anyhow.

 

But looking at the pictures you see the diffences in picture from one camera to the other which is what I was trying to do.

 

Sorry I cannot do any better than this.

 

no problem

thx

just curios

[Viperoni 0]

Thanks for posting the pics, that's a very noticeable difference

[3RDIGLBL 0]

OK I'm back to bright. I grabbed a screen shot of the CP484 in todays morning sun. The sun is behind the building. I don't understand with a camera of this magnitude why I am still seeing this brightness in the driveway.

 

I spoke to soon yesterday being all excited about the picture but this morning during the same time of day I took the CX550DN photo the CP484 also has this brightness problem.

 

Am I missing something in the settings that could help this. I'm not familiar with the CP484 feature/functions like some of you.

 

 

Thanks for any help.

[survtech 0]

That's probably about the best you can get.

 

We have experimented with a number of cameras trying to get a decent picture under high backlight conditions and there doesn't appear to be a happy medium with any of them. We tried the Panasonic WV-CP484 and a Dallmeier, among others, and the results were unspectacular. I don't think any camera can handle that wide a range of light and dark areas well.

[kao 0]

Have someone go up to the camera during the time of day you are having the problem.

While you are watching the monitor, have them press the center menu button on the camera.

The camera will go through a automatic type of sequence in which it tries to set itself according to the lighting conditions.

 

I have had mixed results...sometimes the camera finds its own "sweet spot" and I just leave it. Other times it looks like a very good picture, but then the camera continues to adjust and settles for a less than perfect picture...in which case you have to go in to the menu system and adjust various settings yourself to get the best picture.

[3RDIGLBL 0]

Well I'm in the wrong friggen business

 

I'm not happy with any camera, low end to high end I honestly don't see a difference a lot of time. I've had everything in here from no name brand under $100 cameras to $400+ cameras and sometimes the picture look identical. This outdoor picture now although a bit better I'm still not happy with brightness. This camera was supposed to be the camera of all cameras when it comes to stuff like this and I just don't see the cost adder of almost $200 over the Arm when it comes to this brightness issue.

 

I spoke way to soon in my earlier post saying "WOW" because at that particular moment the picture was definitely better on the Pano. I'm either slow in figuring out how to adjust the fine settings or there is just no way to get a better picture.

 

I'm back to my original question that started this post. Isn't there a good all around camera out there? How do people adjust for brightness in parking lots when the sun is out? Do all surveillance systems look like this if so why the heck does anyone even install them gees!!! If I'm not happy how the heck to you make your customer happy with the picture?

 

Now I'm frustrated LOL!!!! When all is said and done it's almost cheaper to hire an unemployed person a few bucks to sit there and watch a parking lot

 

Am I way off? I mean do you all have these same issues to contend with or am I missing something? What do you tell your customers when they say this is to darn bright, I can't make out a person walking by but if it's cloudy out I see the people just fine. I stand up on a ladder and look down at the parking lot and those spots that the camera finds to be very bright just don't seem that bright to my eyes. I don't get it, isn't that what the auto-iris is for? I'd rather see the camera dim down a bit to make those bright spots a little more recognizable but I can't seem to find one that does that.

[survtech 0]

No camera system works as well as the human eye and probably won't in our lifetime. That said, I don't see a serious problem with the picture you posted. Perhaps you are just being too picky? Outdoors areas are notoriously difficult to get optimum pictures under every lighting condition because there are just too many variables like dynamic range (the difference between the lightest and darkest areas), reflections, etc.

 

This is a problem that we run into often in the casino and before, when I worked for an integrator. Customers often expect to see video like they see on TV shows. That's just not possible because we don't use $100,000 cameras and can't control the lighting like they do in production situations.

[3RDIGLBL 0]

Perhaps you are just being too picky?

 

Amen to that

 

So why pay huge premiums for some of these name brands with fancy features. These Pano's are huge premiums but I honestly in the end don't see the huge value there unless there was such a huge difference where you can say OH YA now that is a good camera but I guess I don't see that (as I initially thought there was). I do see differences in TVL ratings and some of the WDR assistance but to my eyes those are the biggest gains I see from cheap to expensive. I mean there are some other items I left out here but come on.

[CollinR 0]

Also part of being a good installer is positioning the camera in a way that it has to tolerate as little of this as possible.

 

Do you have AES enabled?

 

What did you exepect from that camera, to me the vehicles especially the closer one is the focus of the camera. Surely you don't expect any identification past where the bright section is. This is an NTSC camera after all.

[3RDIGLBL 0]

Yes AES is enabled. This view is not where the camera is going. This is just outside my office building.

 

The customer will be setup similarly. They have landscaping material that they want to keep an eye on and their driveway is tarred so I am expecting glare. If it's sunny and they can't see there material what good is the camera system going to be for them you know.

[rory 0]

Try turning down the Iris on that Pano a bit, I had to do that with one recently.

Also make sure the housing front glass is clean.

[CollinR 0]

Yes AES is enabled.

 

1st turn that off and make sure you have it set for the proper auto iris lens DC or video driven.

 

AES is the internal electronic shutter you use when you have a fixed iris lens which I'm guessing you do not.