4 camera surveillance system for an RV park. Please help!

[stabmaster 0]

Hello. I have spent some time reading up on the surveillance systems and, although I know what i want, I still don't know where to find it. I also need someone to check my work, because I'm not entirely sure about this.

 

First, I am looking for 2 wireless color weatherproof cameras to mount on top of lampposts (20-25' high). The image (human activity) will be approximately 50' away and field of view about 25' wide, which to my calculations comes out to a 9.6mm focal length on a 1/3" CCD. I assume 8mm lens will be fine. The change machine, coke machine, and all the other stuff these lowlifes like to tamper with is under corridor lighting so i assume i will not need any low light infared capabilities or anything.

 

Two more cameras will be wired in because it's near the office and it will only take a little time to run some conduit underground. These would need to be weatherproof, color, and they generally scope out the vehicular activity that will cruise through the campground (one will be firing at the mailboxes and office, etc. at 65ft away. At this distance a 12mm lens would probably be okay as it will give appx. 25' wide view on a 1/3" CCD. I will have to secure a pole into the ground and the cameras will probably be mounted 5-6' above ground. I will need some locking cases to mount the cameras inside so that people can't beat the hell out of them (people generally look for trouble out of sheer boredom in this park).

 

The system is to be a computer based DVR system. I have a good 1.4gHz athalon with Abit KT7A-RAID motherboard, 1 gig of ram, 64mb NVIDIA vid card, and win2kpro. I've used it for a year and it's incredibly stable, so I am confident that it will do the trick.

 

The software should be easy to use, and pretty cool- We have a lot of ubergeeks who like to wire things up to aux. monitors and do remote access and all that jazz.. so easy is good, but simple.. well, cool is better

 

DVR storage only needs to be like a day or two, because the on-site manager knows if something needs to be reviewed within 24hrs most of the time. If it's only a little higher price i'd go with longer storage.

 

OK so i know the parts. I think i know the camera spec's... i just don't know where to score the equipment. I think that, being realistic, i can peice this together for 1000-2000.

 

Just for the record, the system will be used for real-time surveillance remotely or locally, but that's not the really big picture. They are there to prevent people from tampering with our machines or driving where they're not supposed to, and the video review is the main function; the reason is that it's much easier to evict someone when we have a police report filed on them. Similar issues occur with traffic (there is an off-limits place where ATV's and 4x4 trucks think it's a playground).

 

I need ANY help i can get as far as the retailer, equipment brands, and things that i may not have considered, or may be missing. THANKS IN ADVANCE!

[qman 0]

Well, there are a few of us here that can take care of what you need.

The only issue that you might have is with the Wireless cameras, you still need to have power coming to them, so you might have to go with an external transmitter, reciever application.

 

But honestly, you are looking at more close to 2000 if you want to get something quality.

 

 

Check Your PM

[stabmaster 0]

Well.. that's the genius about the power coming to them- we are going to wire it into a junction box that is right at the top of the lamppost. I honestly don't know how the wireless camera works without an external transmitter- reciever.. I could use some clarification in that area.

 

As for the price- yes i am aware that closer to 2000 is more likely than closer to 1000, but honestly- we're not running the First National Bank here.. things that we can cut down on are: 3 cameras instead of 4, and storage size on the DVR. We're looking for the Honda Accord DX model rather than the Mercedes S-class version if you know what i mean.

 

I realize that every time you consult people who know the difference between quality and junk, you're going to end up spending twice as much as you had planned for- so i was just as soon about to leave myself in the dark and put together a system that was under a grand through cctvwholesalers.com. I'm sure everyone here would pan the equipment on that site, and so would i... But i think that I would be comparing realistic prices with the type of prices on this site being the generic versions of a real system.

 

I'll have photos and measurements, and hopefully layouts of the park by the end of the day. i appreciate any help! BTW am i doing my camera calc's correctly or can anyone tell? I am using the most basic equations in optics to figure this out (if i defined my parameters right).

[AVCONSULTING 0]

Here is a link to an online lens calculator, you can use it to verify your findings. Also consider a varifocal lens which is like a mini zoom.

 

http://www.supercircuits.com/STORE/lenscalc.asp

[stabmaster 0]

Okay. I took some pictures and measurements.. I have all the spec's laid out in the pictures, so if anyone would be so kind as to take a look at them and let me know if i'm on the right track.

 

I came to the conclusion that I can probably just go with 3 cameras: 2 hard wired and 1 wireless. Some schmuck stole someone else's laundry today- it's amazing what people will steal! I know who it was because he was the only one in the laundry room.. too bad I can't do anything about it... yet! This system certainly won't come too soon, that's for sure.

 

Okay so now that i think i have my camera spec's I need to know what kind and where to purchase. i have an idea about the type of equipment i need but i have no clue where to start looking for it. Here's what came up:

 

Camera 1: 16mm lens on 1/3" CCD WIRED

Camera 2: 8mm lens on 1/3" CCD OR 12mm lens on 1/2" CCD WIRED

Camera 3: 8mm lens on 1/3" CCD OR 12mm lens on 1/2" CCD OR 16mm lens on 2/3" CCD WIRELESS

 

Here are the images and diagrams that will let you see what i'm working with:

 

http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/stabmaster5150/album?.dir=/7688

 

the third picture was just too hilarious for me to pass up- a neighbor's dog wanted desperately to be a new tenant!

 

if anyone has AIM they can reach me at stabmaster5150. thanks so much for any and all help.

 

EDIT: GRRRR.. looks like yahoo photos doesn't allow viewing full images unless you are a member. I'm not even sure if members can view other members' images (if so, please let me know.) I've pretty much had it with image hosting services... i think i'm going to take some blood pressure medication.

[AVCONSULTING 0]

Look into this unit for your wireless camera.

 

http://www.supercircuits.com/STORE/prodinfo.asp?number=MVL10-WR&variation=&aitem=2&mitem=21

 

Then get these for the cameras.

 

http://www.at-fairfax.com/Camera/HighResolution.htm (the day/night version)

 

Lenses: Get a varifocal auto iris that brackets the focal length you decided on.

 

http://www.at-fairfax.com/Lenses/Varifocal/Vitek.htm

 

DVR standalone, no computer needed

 

http://www.at-fairfax.com/DVR/VitekDvr.htm#vtdvr04

 

 

 

Housings, mounts, power supplies and other misc items:

 

http://www.at-fairfax.com/CCTVHardware.htm

[stabmaster 0]

thank you so much! I looked everything over. I was so reolived when i saw reasonable prices for those cameras. Started adding it up.. 2 cameras at 168.. I wanted to go with fixed focal length, 1 at 8mm and 1 at 16mm.. unfortunately there was no 16mm available on the site. I would rather go with the fixed ones to save money (frickin 17 bucks for fixed, big deal), and if i didn't like them then upgrade.

 

Ok so couldn't find the 16mm.. but i could do the $330 for a good wireless cam. A couple of casings priced reasonably at like $27 each. no big deal...

 

...but $1600 for a frickin DVR?! Ok let's take a step back here. I know I can do better. Do i have to go with a stand alone? Is it that much better? I'm not sure what i'm missing, but what, exactly, is wrong with this unit (or this type of unit)?

 

http://www.cctvwholesalers.com/customer/product.php?productid=16217&cat=259&page=1

 

is this an option at all? Is there a "good" brand of these? i like the computer based ones because i don't have to add an extra monitor. also, i can connect from a remote PC. even better, you can set pixel sensitivity, motion detection zones, etc.

 

So what am i missing here? aren't these desirable features? Oh and can these vitek cams work with a unit like this (or this very unit)? Thanks.

[AVCONSULTING 0]

This is not a complete DVR but has to be used with a computer. Once you start adding in the cost of the computer you aren't too far away from a standalone DVR. You can't just use a computer part time as a DVR and also run other programs on it. In order to have a reliable DVR your computer has to be devoted 100% to the DVR. I wouldn't get this add on device. Instead if you are going to use a computer you can get more reliable and less expensive DVR cards. Look in the forum discussion under DVR cards for more information. I can't tell from the description if remote video look in is available. I don't think it is. For outdoor lenses you have to use auto iris so don't waste your money on the cheaper no iris lenses. You also will save yourself a tremendous amount of grief if you use varifocals. Varifocals are the only way to go these days. The cameras are compatible with all DVRs, standalone or computer based.

[stabmaster 0]

Ok so.. So far i have:

 

(2) Hi-Res Vitek color cameras

(2) Vitek Housings

(1) Auto Iris Lens 2.8-10mm

(1) Auto Iris Lens 5.5-50mm

subtotal: 591.15 plus tas/shipping

 

(1) Weatherproof MVL10 wireless color camera

subtotal: 299.95 +591.15 = 891.1

 

Now I think I can live with this subtotal. It's the rest that pushes it to an alarming price. I'm not QUITE ready to give up the computer based DVR.

 

Now assuming that i'm good with computers, and have plenty of parts laying around.. I need a good motherboard ($125) and a good 160gb storage HD ($60 after rebate at Office Max on monday)- this is enough to complete a system for me. Ok so at $210.00 for computer, I could spend up to $899 on the rest of the setup and still come in at under $2000 (although I'm not excited with paying 2000 either, but at least I *think* I'm getting a fair system together here).

 

Now, before i scrap the idea of a computer based DVR i'd like to see one that is at least known to be a good unit and try to compare. Thanks so much for the advice given so far. I would be lost without your advice... even though i'm still lost with it

[qman 0]

I can get you a 4 Channel DVR witha 80 gig HD for $1100.00

 

here's the link:

 

http://www.shscomputers.com/dvr4.htm

 

The website is not finished yet, but the specs are there.

 

The good thing about it is that at least you can upgrade the hard drive later, and to back up, you can use a regular home VCR so that you can record whatever even you want to a tape and give it to the cops.

 

If you want more info, please e-mail me, hermin@shscomputers.com

[rory 0]

Varifocal lens, then you adjust it when you install it.

 

$1600 for a 4 channel DVR, embedded OS, standalone. - we charge $2990 for a 4 channel DVR here. I wouldnt touch the PC cards myself, even though I service and build computers for a living, too much maintenance, a embedded DVR, you never have to go back! Then again, on the swing side, if it was just for me, i could use a cheap PC card, but definately use a seperate computer otherwise welcome to frequent OS freezing.

 

Also, beware with Wireless Video, you can end up with frequent loss of video, or depending if not installed right, will not give you a good image at all. You need to mount it over 15 feet, or at least above any kind of objects, keeping a direct point to point, from tx to rx. Id get an additional antenna for the RX to be safe. I have several TX and RX's sitting around here, that we could never get a good image from, or would occassionally loose video from cell phone interference, etc.

 

Definately get a day night, or just BW camera, as from those images, you dont have enough lighting for color. Kalatel has an inexpensive exview Low light bullet camera, with built in IR light good to 20-30 feet. Unlike most bullets, its high quality.

 

One thing, if you have any twisted pair (telephone or cat 5 etc) already run where you want to put the wireless, instead use that for transmission, with some UTP TXs and Receivers ($30 each approx). Kalatel has a day night camera, with a plug in transmission pack, that you can use to connect the twisted pair to, and wont need a UTP tx

 

For a good 4 channel DVR, not cheap, but one of the best ive seen around, Kalatel StoreSafe:

http://www.geindustrial.com/cwc/products/ge-interlogix?pnlid=9&famid=63&catid=1088&id=StoreSafe&lang=en_US

Good luck

 

Rory

[stabmaster 0]

herminshs- Is the link to that 80G DVR on your site a "Kaltel" or is that a typo (supposed to be Kalatel")?

 

I've spoken with my family (family business) and we've decided to go with the stand alone. We've also decided to pay what it takes and moved the price bracket to 2500-3000. Lastly, we've decided to get the 4th camera after all. On a side note, there were more thieves at work last night! If our on site manager wasn't an insomniac, we would already be in the red with this business!

 

There are a few things we're toiling with right now. To install the wired cameras, I will have to dig 12" deep and drop some conduit down and run it over 90 feet. The odds of running into problems are great. There is possibly a way around this: my dad owns a business which sells solar panels and he could supply some 12v solar panels that could supply the current necessary. I haven't found any informatoin on energy requirements of the wireless units, but I'm trying to figure out the feasability of a solar setup. So in the scheme of things, the solar panels are a freebie- and if i can circumvent the hassle and cost (and labor) of running conduit all over town, i would certainly favor that route.

 

Ok so now that I'm looking into wireless units exclusively (thinking out loud here), I am back to square 1 as far as spec's go. The vitek cameras had auto-iris and specified focal lengths, whereas these wireless units don't seem to advertise much of anything. There are no adjustable/replacable lenses or even an advertised focal length on the MLV-10 unit (one that had been suggested prevoiusly). I am at a complete loss for choosing 4 wireless cameas (3 of which i know the specs of. the 4th one is to come- i will have to do some surveying, and research- i still don't know much about the focus/iris/etc, day/night, etc.)

 

I assume that i will go with at least an extra rx for the transmission. The wireless cameras (1, and 2, 6' above ground) will definitely be a direct shot to the reciever only 70' away or less. The other 1 or 2 will be closer to 100-150' away and there will certainly be plenty of trees in the way; the cameras/transmitters will be mounted 20-25' in the air, but there's no way to get them above the trees! I assume that the transmission will be fair- there is very little interference here as we can't even get cell phone signal in the area. Unfortunately, there's an x-factor! We have a wireless 2.4Ghz 802.11b network AND a 2.4ghz wireless telephone. Forget about the phone- I'm going to get a 900Mhz replacement because i don't even want to think about the conflictions here. On the other hand, the 802.11b would be hard to give up, because we are firing it via yagi antenna to the office, manager's office, and also some residents. If there are conflictions, i think that hard wiring the network would come first. The router is a 10 channel which have the following center frequencies that can be selected: 2412, 2417, 2422, 2427, 2432, 2437, 2442, 2447, 2452, 2462, 2467, 2472.... and the spread is 25Mhz (channel 1, being 2412, has a range of 2399.5-2424.5).

 

I know it's not rocket surgery, and i'll try not to overcomplicate things, but I need to get this kind of thing straight so as to avoid major disappointment.

 

As for the DVR unit- the two i'm looking at right now are the Vitek VT-DVR04 (60gb) and the Kalatel (80gb). From the limited spec's given, the best I can figure is that the extra $450 cost of the vitek is that it is capable of 120 fps operation whereas the Kalatel is more like 30 fps (in quad mode, apparently). 30 fps, if i'm not mistaken, is lightyears faster than i even need for my purposes; therefore, if I'm not leavinig out anything important, the Kaltel unit posted by hermanshs is on the top of my list.

 

If it seems like it takes a whole team of experts to design a 4 camera system for an RV park, then you're right! I'm so greatful for all of your help and I don't know what kind of mess i'd be in if i bought a surveilence system on ebay. Right now i think I'm going to go down and survey the land for camera 4, and hopefully do some more learn'in on the wireless camera spec's.

Edited February 8, 2004 by Guest

[AVCONSULTING 0]

The spelling is correct. They are trying to look like a Kalatel, maybe even in for a lawsuit down the road. A Kalatel is way more expensive. One other option on your DVR is to get a DVR card and install it into an appropriate computer. Remember that the computer is totally dedicated to the DVR so it is not a multi-purpose machine. Here is a link to a popular source of DVR cards. 4 channels of wireless is not a good idea. There is too much chance of interference. Hardwire whenever you can. Wireless cameras (those with the transmitters built in) are a poor way of going since the cameras themselves are usually low end board cameras. You should stick to using an outboard wireless transmitter. Wireless cameras are mainly for covert indoor use.

http://www.dvrcards.com/economy_dvr_cards.htm

 

The MLV10 is not a camera, it is only a transmitter/receiver combo. You still need a camera.

[rory 0]

Kalatel 4 channel will cost more than $1110, but its far superior, simple to install, maintenance free, and full of features. It would be your best choice, over a DVR PC card.

 

Personally, Id cut the road, and run cat5, with NVT 4 port Active hub on the receiveing end, and, use Kalatel Cam Plus Day Night cameras, with the Plus Packs which provide UTP transmission for the cat 5. If the disctances are not that far, then even coax RG59 would be ok in siamese cable for power run also.

 

Either way, if you go wireless, you will need a seperate TX from the camera, like Alan said, and as far as inteference goes, you wont know until you install it. You could buy everything else, and then just 1 wireless transmitter, and see if it works, testing it from one location to the next, then if it does, buy the rest. They sell larger antennas for the receiver also, and for the TXs incase you dont get a good signal. The wireless Id recommend is www.videotransmitters.com (Video Com), and they have alot of installation support on their for you to look at.

 

Also, just buy Varifocal Auto Iris lenses, from 2.7-13mm for the ones you need in that area, or from 5-50mm if you need 16mm or above. When you install it you can manually adjust it. I have a viewfinder, for quoting jobs, its like a varifocal lens, but still I normally sell them varifocal lenses anyway as they arent much more than a fixed lens.

 

 

Rory

 

 

 

herminshs- Is the link to that 80G DVR on your site a "Kaltel" or is that a typo (supposed to be Kalatel")?

 

I've spoken with my family (family business) and we've decided to go with the stand alone. We've also decided to pay what it takes and moved the price bracket to 2500-3000. Lastly, we've decided to get the 4th camera after all. On a side note, there were more thieves at work last night! If our on site manager wasn't an insomniac, we would already be in the red with this business!

 

There are a few things we're toiling with right now. To install the wired cameras, I will have to dig 12" deep and drop some conduit down and run it over 90 feet. The odds of running into problems are great. There is possibly a way around this: my dad owns a business which sells solar panels and he could supply some 12v solar panels that could supply the current necessary. I haven't found any informatoin on energy requirements of the wireless units, but I'm trying to figure out the feasability of a solar setup. So in the scheme of things, the solar panels are a freebie- and if i can circumvent the hassle and cost (and labor) of running conduit all over town, i would certainly favor that route.

 

Ok so now that I'm looking into wireless units exclusively (thinking out loud here), I am back to square 1 as far as spec's go. The vitek cameras had auto-iris and specified focal lengths, whereas these wireless units don't seem to advertise much of anything. There are no adjustable/replacable lenses or even an advertised focal length on the MLV-10 unit (one that had been suggested prevoiusly). I am at a complete loss for choosing 4 wireless cameas (3 of which i know the specs of. the 4th one is to come- i will have to do some surveying, and research- i still don't know much about the focus/iris/etc, day/night, etc.)

 

I assume that i will go with at least an extra rx for the transmission. The wireless cameras (1, and 2, 6' above ground) will definitely be a direct shot to the reciever only 70' away or less. The other 1 or 2 will be closer to 100-150' away and there will certainly be plenty of trees in the way; the cameras/transmitters will be mounted 20-25' in the air, but there's no way to get them above the trees! I assume that the transmission will be fair- there is very little interference here as we can't even get cell phone signal in the area. Unfortunately, there's an x-factor! We have a wireless 2.4Ghz 802.11b network AND a 2.4ghz wireless telephone. Forget about the phone- I'm going to get a 900Mhz replacement because i don't even want to think about the conflictions here. On the other hand, the 802.11b would be hard to give up, because we are firing it via yagi antenna to the office, manager's office, and also some residents. If there are conflictions, i think that hard wiring the network would come first. The router is a 10 channel which have the following center frequencies that can be selected: 2412, 2417, 2422, 2427, 2432, 2437, 2442, 2447, 2452, 2462, 2467, 2472.... and the spread is 25Mhz (channel 1, being 2412, has a range of 2399.5-2424.5).

 

I know it's not rocket surgery, and i'll try not to overcomplicate things, but I need to get this kind of thing straight so as to avoid major disappointment.

 

As for the DVR unit- the two i'm looking at right now are the Vitek VT-DVR04 (60gb) and the Kalatel (80gb). From the limited spec's given, the best I can figure is that the extra $450 cost of the vitek is that it is capable of 120 fps operation whereas the Kalatel is more like 30 fps (in quad mode, apparently). 30 fps, if i'm not mistaken, is lightyears faster than i even need for my purposes; therefore, if I'm not leavinig out anything important, the Kaltel unit posted by hermanshs is on the top of my list.

 

If it seems like it takes a whole team of experts to design a 4 camera system for an RV park, then you're right! I'm so greatful for all of your help and I don't know what kind of mess i'd be in if i bought a surveilence system on ebay. Right now i think I'm going to go down and survey the land for camera 4, and hopefully do some more learn'in on the wireless camera spec's.

[qman 0]

No the unit is not a kalatel, the company's name is kaltel, and they have been around since the 70's, so they are very less likely to try and copy kalatel's units.

 

The software on them are great, and they have a feature that kalatel does not have, dynamic ip hosting, and it supports 3 phone lines coming into them for remote viewing.

 

now with the wireless cameras, the cameras themselves require anywhere from 100-500 mA. But the wireless transmision devices, I really don't know.

[rory 0]

No the unit is not a kalatel, the company's name is kaltel, and they have been around since the 70's, so they are very less likely to try and copy kalatel's units.

 

The software on them are great, and they have a feature that kalatel does not have, dynamic ip hosting, and it supports 3 phone lines coming into them for remote viewing.

 

now with the wireless cameras, the cameras themselves require anywhere from 100-500 mA. But the wireless transmision devices, I really don't know.

 

Kalatel Triplex StoreSafe and DVMRe units have dynamic IP hosting, as of last year spring, and have capability for a USB Robotics External Telco Modem.

 

Also, looking at the specs, it appears to be a quad recorder, not a multiplexer? correct me if im wrong, thanks, Still an interesting product, never heard of the company though until now.

 

Rory

[stabmaster 0]

Oh god... i'm schoolin' myself right now and as a consumer I refuse to be confused as to who I'm buying a product from. For instance, take a look at this product:

 

Product: GE Industrial Systems GE Interlogix Kalatel Calibur StoreSafe DVMRe Triplex Multiplexer-Recorder SDVR-4-40

 

WHAT DOES ALL THIS MEAN? Well, Let's take a look:

 

GE: General Electric- A COMPANY. From jet engines to power generation, financial services to plastics, and medical imaging to news and information, GE people worldwide are dedicated to turning imaginative ideas into leading products and services that help solve some of the world's toughest problems.

 

GE Industrial: A BUSINESS. GE is made up of a broad range of primary business units, each with its own number of divisions. GE Consumer & Industrial is one of those businesses (other business units include NBC, GE Energy, GE Transportation, and about 10 others). GE Consumer & Industrial spans the globe as $14 billion industry leader in major appliance, lighting and integrated industrial equipment, systems and services.

 

GE Interlogix: A BUSINESS. GE purchased Interlogix, Inc. in 2002 for nearly $800 million. At the time, Interlogix, Inc. included the brands Caddx, ESL, ITI, Kalatel, and Sentrol. GE Interlogix spans the globe as a technological leader in the rapidly growing electronic security industry. The business focuses on communication technologies along with information for security, life safety and lifestyle enhancements, Homeland Security and the emerging web-enabled premises management market for residential, commercial and enterprise applications. As far as I know, GE Interlogix has since incorporated about 15 other brand names.

 

Kalatel: Kalatel is a GE Interlogix BRAND NAME. It is also a company (NASDAQ: ILXI) founded in 1979, today with 170 employees and headquarters in Corvallis, OR. The Kaltel brand name carries the following product lines: CyberDome, Calibur, DSR-2000e, MobileView II, Paragon, and some others. On a side note, the COMPANY Netergy Networks sold it's BRAND NAME '8x8' to Interlogix Inc. in May of 2000 for 5.5 million. The 8x8 line is associated with video transmission technology, which has since been integrated into the Kalatel CCTV product line by Interlogix Inc., and subsequently bought by GE Industrial (following all of this?).

 

Calibur- A PRODUCT LINE. The Calibur DVMR (Digital Video Multiplex Recorder) includes all the functions of a digital video multiplexer and digital video recorder in one unit. Among the calibur line models are Simplex, Duplex, and Triplex. The DVMR gives you better playback image quality than a VCR, and it eliminates the high failure rates associated with analog VCRs. And because it's digital, there are no tapes, and no tape heads to clean or replace. The DVMR displays live video from as many as 16 cameras in multiscreen, full-screen or sequencing full-screen modes. And at the same time you're viewing video, it's recording high-resolution pictures from all cameras to its built-in 30, 80 or 160 GB hard drive. Best of all, the Calibur DVMR is easy to use. If you can use a standard VCR and multiplexer, you can use the Calibur DVMR.

 

DMVRe- A Product VERSION. Also an abbreviated product description. Digital Multiplexer-Video Recorder, ethernet.

 

Multiplexers- GE Interlogix offers the following product line of multiplexers: Lite 'q' series, simplex, eZ series, duplex, and triplex. The Calibur line of multiplexers offers simplex, duplex and Triplex™ models—more than 20 in all. Features include parallel video processing (PVP™), automatic record-speed synchronization (VEXT) and the ability to play back tapes from many other manufacturers' multiplexers.

 

Triplexâ„¢: A Calibur product line MODEL. Triplex multiplexers let you watch live and recorded images on one monitor simultaneously, eliminating the need for a separate playback station. Choose from 10-camera color or 16-camera color or monochrome models, all with PVP to the main display and recorder, plus macros, video motion detection, alarm handling, and Quick-set on-screen menu prompts. Side Note: The SDVR-4-40 model is a 4-camera Triplex, which is not mentioned on the GE Interlogix description right on their website (oversight?).

 

Triplex Multiplexers (information): Triplex multiplexers offer the best combination of playback and live display, system automation and alarm management. You can continue to record video on one VCR or digital recorder while playing back video from another in several different multiscreen formats. And Triplex performance lets you display both live and playback images simultaneously on one monitor, eliminating the need for and cost of a separate playback station. Easy to use, intelligent and watchful, our Triplex multiplexers use QuickInstall on-screen setup menus that make them easy to install and integrate. With these models, you can even control connected recorders directly from the multiplexer.

 

StoreSafe: This appears to be a technology associated with the product software. I would also classify it as a SERIES? My hunch is that this small company is outsourced to write the user interface which includes the exclusive AutoInstall feature and WaveReader, a graphical user interface which allows the user to view and review video from a remote location. As far as I can tell, the same software, v4.11, is written for DVMRe-CT, DVMRe-eZT, DVMRE Matrix, StoreSafe NTSC and StoreSafe PAL series units. (For the record DVMRe-CT is DVMRe-"Color Triplex")

 

NTSC: United States video transmission standard (National Television Standards Committee). NTSC is based on a 525-line, 60 fields/30 frames-per-second at 60Hz system for transmission and display of video images. This is an interlaced system in which each frame is scanned in two fields of 262 lines, which is then combined to display a frame of video with 525 scan lines. PAL, on the other hand, is the dominant format in the rest of the world (it is considered a better broadcast method). Too bad though, becasue PAL transmission has been discontinued in the Kalatel product lines and NTSC is now the standard (at least there's a standard).

 

SDVR-4-40: StoreSafe Digital Video Recorder - 4 channels - 40 gig hard drive.

 

 

By now you all think I'm insane, huh? I have also collected notes and descriptions of abbreviations (CAT5, CDD, TX, UTP, etc). It's just a method I use for learning (learn by teaching). Hope someone else will find it useful someday

Edited February 8, 2004 by Guest

[stabmaster 0]

oh and the wireless transmission devices are around 350mA..

 

...still learning. I will not be stopping any time soon, either

[rory 0]

oh and the wireless transmission devices are around 350mA..

 

...still learning. I will not be stopping any time soon, either

 

some good info, I didnt even know 'all' those details.

 

Kalatel was just purchased last year Spring by GE, before that they were on their own, making cctv products, for years, and one of the leaders in sales of DVRs. Since GE bought them, they have pumped a ton of money into new design & technology. The storesafe for instance had a different design and less features, until GE bought them.

 

I orignally found them when lookng for remote video products, and found their RSM-1600 product, which is great by the way, but like everything it has its limitations. ..anyway..

 

The embedded OS of all DVMRes, Storesafes, etc, are written by another company, and its not cheap, and not a part of GE or Kalatel (as far as I know). Its used in alot of different machines or devices that use embedded OS's not just video surveillance. I located the companies web site once, cant remember it right now.

 

Wavereader is the same software used for all of the DVRs. Originally written by a secondary company also, and was also used in Phillips DVRs.

 

Kalatel's DVRs have lasted for me, 2 of them in some very harsh enviroments, for almost 2 years, and still going. Others I have installed since then have also lasted well. None have required ANY maintenance. One I did upgrade the EPPROM when they came out with 16 live users, instead of 1 live user, by logging on through a web browser and updating it with a new BIN file. They are simple to use, and even easier to install, and tech support is supperior to other security manufacturers I have dealt with (including Ademco whose alarms I have installed for approx 6 years).

 

If you want something that is low in maintanance, simple to install (plug & play), then this is what you want. Ofcourse there are other brands just as good, such as Dedicated Micros (software is not as good, only provides quad views), and after little more time on their own, maybe Phillips (they havent been in the DVR business as long as the other 2 mentioned, but have some good products by specs on their site). There are a ton of PC card brands out there, Geovision being the most widely used or advertised one Ive seen, even before joing up here. Though I like to stay as far away from PC based for my cleints, for now anyway.

 

Thats just some general history from what I have encountered over the last couple years.

 

Oh yes, and StoreSafe is a series, now owned entierly by GE (if it was outsourced for development in the past).

 

Another thing, I found a company in the UK that have the same products, except for the StoreSAfe, with their name on it, diffeent colored push buttons, etc., like they are leasing it from Kalatel. Could get no reply when I emailed them though.

 

after a half a year, I was able to get hold of the control from Kalatel to make my own custom software, take a look at my web site for more info:

www.BahamasSecurity.com

 

Still need some more deveopment time on it and some others in the planing stages now, including a multi site version, and a Kiosk type touch screen.

Edited February 9, 2004 by Guest

[rory 0]

Oh god... i'm schoolin' myself right now and as a consumer I refuse to be confused as to who I'm buying a product from. For instance, take a look at this product:

 

good reading up though, Im impressed!

 

Product: GE Industrial Systems GE Interlogix Kalatel Calibur StoreSafe DVMRe Triplex Multiplexer-Recorder SDVR-4-40

 

they also come in sizes from 40, 80, 160, 250Gb for Storesafe, 40, 80, 160, 320, 500, 640, 1000GB in the DVMRe, and 40, 80, 160, 320, 640, 1280, 2000Gb in the DVSe, and 40, 80, 160, 320, 640, and 1000GB in the DSR-2000, and 40, 80, 160 in the DSR-1000 & VDR.

 

All come in 4, 10 or 16 channels, except the DSR and VDR.

 

They have a 16x5 Matrix DVMRe also. 640 or 1000GB.

 

they have a Bus DVR system called Bus Secure that comes in 80, 160 & 250Gb.

 

They also now have a system called Video IQ, a PC based 4 channel Human Object Detector.

 

Rack Mount kits are available for all DVRs.

 

 

 

 

Kalatel: Kalatel is a GE Interlogix BRAND NAME. It is also a company (NASDAQ: ILXI) founded in 1979, today with 170 employees and headquarters in Corvallis, OR. The Kaltel brand name carries the following product lines: CyberDome, Calibur, DSR-2000e, MobileView II, Paragon, and some others. On a side note, the COMPANY Netergy Networks sold it's BRAND NAME '8x8' to Interlogix Inc. in May of 2000 for 5.5 million. The 8x8 line is associated with video transmission technology, which has since been integrated into the Kalatel CCTV product line by Interlogix Inc., and subsequently bought by GE Industrial (following all of this?).

 

ok, i dont have stock yet, so not sure I nedd to know all of this! ))

 

if 8x8 is the streaming video server 8 channel, they are discontinuing development on it.

 

Calibur- A PRODUCT LINE. The Calibur DVMR (Digital Video Multiplex Recorder) includes all the functions of a digital video multiplexer and digital video recorder in one unit. Among the calibur line models are Simplex, Duplex, and Triplex. The DVMR gives you better playback image quality than a VCR, and it eliminates the high failure rates associated with analog VCRs. And because it's digital, there are no tapes, and no tape heads to clean or replace. The DVMR displays live video from as many as 16 cameras in multiscreen, full-screen or sequencing full-screen modes. And at the same time you're viewing video, it's recording high-resolution pictures from all cameras to its built-in 30, 80 or 160 GB hard drive. Best of all, the Calibur DVMR is easy to use. If you can use a standard VCR and multiplexer, you can use the Calibur DVMR.

 

DMVRe- A Product VERSION. Also an abbreviated product description. Digital Multiplexer-Video Recorder, ethernet.

 

also have 320, 500, 640, 1000GB versions. Aswell as the Ez version whith less features, auto install, but lower price, lower drive size also, 500Gb being the largest.

 

Multiplexers- GE Interlogix offers the following product line of multiplexers: Lite 'q' series, simplex, eZ series, duplex, and triplex. The Calibur line of multiplexers offers simplex, duplex and Triplex™ models—more than 20 in all. Features include parallel video processing (PVP™), automatic record-speed synchronization (VEXT) and the ability to play back tapes from many other manufacturers' multiplexers.

 

they do have one of the largest lines of muxes I have seen yet.

 

Triplex™: A Calibur product line MODEL. Triplex multiplexers let you watch live and recorded images on one monitor simultaneously, eliminating the need for a separate playback station. Choose from 10-camera color or 16-camera color or monochrome models, all with PVP to the main display and recorder, plus macros, video motion detection, alarm handling, and Quick-set on-screen menu prompts. Side Note: The SDVR-4-40 model is a 4-camera Triplex, which is not mentioned on the GE Interlogix description right on their website (oversight?).

 

Triplex Multiplexers (information): Triplex multiplexers offer the best combination of playback and live display, system automation and alarm management. You can continue to record video on one VCR or digital recorder while playing back video from another in several different multiscreen formats. And Triplex performance lets you display both live and playback images simultaneously on one monitor, eliminating the need for and cost of a separate playback station. Easy to use, intelligent and watchful, our Triplex multiplexers use QuickInstall on-screen setup menus that make them easy to install and integrate. With these models, you can even control connected recorders directly from the multiplexer.

 

other brands also now use Triplex, not sure if this is trademarked by Kalatel or not.

 

StoreSafe: This appears to be a technology associated with the product software. I would also classify it as a SERIES? My hunch is that this small company is outsourced to write the user interface which includes the exclusive AutoInstall feature and WaveReader, a graphical user interface which allows the user to view and review video from a remote location. As far as I can tell, the same software, v4.11, is written for DVMRe-CT, DVMRe-eZT, DVMRE Matrix, StoreSafe NTSC and StoreSafe PAL series units. (For the record DVMRe-CT is DVMRe-"Color Triplex")

 

 

yes, StoreSafe is a series of a DVR/Mux. Its embedded software is somewhat different from other Kalatel DVRs, such as the edges of the multi view video is grey, and some other differences, though it has all the features of the DVMRe, and some more even.

 

 

By now you all think I'm insane, huh? I have also collected notes and descriptions of abbreviations (CAT5, CDD, TX, UTP, etc). It's just a method I use for learning (learn by teaching). Hope someone else will find it useful someday

 

absolutely not, its good to read up on products before you buy them.

 

Rory

[qman 0]

Rory

 

 

You have to keep in mind that what you are telling him to get is way overkill to what he wants, plus the cost on the devices are extremelly expensive, and even the least costly ones are around $2000.00

 

Let's try and get him another alternatives.

 

 

stabmaster,

 

do us a favor, so that we can help you out better

 

What exactly do you want to do with the digital unit?, do you want something simple, or something with a lot of bells and wisels?

 

let us know, so that we can tell you what exactly what you need.

[rory 0]

i dont do anything these days, unless its done the best it can be, thats why I called my company X-treme CCTV. Like i said though, for a home user, basic is fine.

 

Its not overkill, from what I can tell, he wants to pay for the best, at least the best that is at a cosumers average budget.

 

A quad is 'almost' useless for playback, though it can work, but if he wants great quality, he needs a DVR with a built in mux. Its over $2000 retail, but its worth it. If he can get it at wholesale, then even better for him. It seems he is getting more involved in it than a regular consumer would so hands up if he wants to buy at wholesale price, he is learning the industry right now anyway.

 

Overkill would be a 1000GB DVMRe, with PTZs, with Dual Extreme CCTV UF500 Infrared LEDs on each camera But heck the image would be very impressive!

 

If he doesnt need Remote Video Access, then

 

1 Kalatel VDR 40Gb (retail $860)

1 4 channel ATVColor Mux (retail $890)

 

then add cameras and wireless txs & rxs.

 

 

 

 

Rory

 

 

You have to keep in mind that what you are telling him to get is way overkill to what he wants, plus the cost on the devices are extremelly expensive, and even the least costly ones are around $2000.00

 

Let's try and get him another alternatives.

 

 

stabmaster,

 

do us a favor, so that we can help you out better

 

What exactly do you want to do with the digital unit?, do you want something simple, or something with a lot of bells and wisels?

 

let us know, so that we can tell you what exactly what you need.

[stabmaster 0]

Well if you noticed, I am favoring the Kalatel line. For purposes of comparison, I did my homework on the SDVR-4-40 in order to be able to articulate what it is that I may want.

 

The SDVR-4-40 is between $1495 and $1526 at over 5 different online retailers. This is the "high end of acceptable" range. There are features that I simply do not need. The embedded CD-R and printer output are not completely essential. Any SINGLE method of retrieving images and/or video by any means is enough for me. The frame rate that is required is PURELY speculative, because I'm not a surveilance expert- this would obviously a place where I could use your help....

 

It seems that every day someone steals laundry, someone breaks the coke machine, and (just got off the phone about this) the company truck gets vandalized. The purpose of this system is not to store a month of data. In all reality, there is not much action here- but every single day people manage to cause some sort of hell for us (it only takes one person, in reality- and it's amazing how hard it is to get rid of someone in california). The purpose of this system is to protect our invetsments and to (2) prosecute offenders or (3) evict offenders.

 

We also have a very good property manager who is ready to quit because of all of this stuff. We want to have surveilence which is able to be viewed remotely-- from his on-site home, and from work, and from the owners' work and home. We should be able to leave the park and still prevent civil unrest.

 

There is also this issue of people driving their cars and ATV's onto our property and thrashing up our riverbed area. It pisses off the tenants because it's annoying, and it's a legal liability. We're not sure what we're going to do about that- but camera 2 will record who comes in and out of the park. A 4th camera will likely be able to detect if there is activity in the river bed (wide angle, not for positive ID).

 

Another thing i could use help on is the overal dogma of this security system. I don't know if it will function as what I might imagine. Am I wasting my time and energy? Is getting a pit bull going to be a better idea? Real time surveilance won't detect and eliminate threats- it would possibly deter the bad guys, add a sense of security for (the good) tenants, and record invaluable information about activities. That is what I am conjuring up in my mind, anyway.

 

So, I wouldn't mind stripping some features for a few hundred bucks, but if it's the difference between 1200 and 1500, and the loss of features is non-trivial, i'll go ahead and pay the 1500. If it's the difference of 800 and the difference in features, build quality, reliability, etc ARE trivial, than sure i'll take my 800 bucks and use it on something more useful.

 

Any and all reccomendations are greatly appreciated (which i hope you know by now!). I'm doing some reading up on the cameras.... still....

 

So to cut my searching in half--- is there a reaosn i should be looking into B/W cameras? What resolution do i really need? I need a couple of parameters to bank my search around- so far i know i need varifocal auto iris lenses, but can i get good night performance at 55+ feet? I'll add more night lighting if necessary.

[rory 0]

I never use the built in CDRW or printer option myself. But it is great for remote video, and the software is great. Its the only one i sell for remote video live and playback.

 

$1495 is wholesale price, like everything on the internet, wholesale pricing is available to end users nowadays, same can be said about japanse import cars. SDVR 40Gb 4 channel standard is Retail $2990. I sell it for that cost, here in the Bahamas, then I have to pay 27% import taxes, so they can sell it for less in the US.

 

The difference of a seperate DVR and Mux, if it is wholesale pricing, your better off with the StoreSafe, or similar, with full features.

 

55 foot night vision, hard to say depending on light you have installed. IR light wont be any better, just cost more. 55 feet is pretty far, you wont catch their face, no matter what resolution you get. Though for outside I would definately get a high res camera, 480TVl if using color, 570 min if using BW or day night with color/BW. Get day night, so you can always add IR lighting if later you need it. Varifocal lens zoomed in at the exact area, will be better than a wide angle lens. Just look at what you need to see, unless you want to add mroe cameras which can then use wide angle. Id concentrate on using the cameras to actaully get the best picture on the areas you need to watch. Buy a viewfinder, not expensive, it can give you an idea of what lens you will ultimately need, though it is only used as a general idea (in other words, if you need a 2.7-13mm lens, or a 5-50 mm lens).

 

 

I would do what I can to stay away from wireless though, as it not only costs more, but is not 100% stable. Try to put the cameras where you can wire them if possible. Cat5 / twisted pair, will get a better image at longer runs, but not needed if only short distances, plus it costs more. If using Caox and image is not great, same as direct at the camera, then you can always add a video amplifier which is cheap. Use a varifocal lens and just manually zoom it tothe area you want to watch.

 

Im installing a 16 channel StoreSafe, 160Gb with 14 Extreme CCTV EX82 day night cameras Infrared to 100+ feet, and 2 kalatel Mini Rugged Domes with Wall Mounts, keyboard, 19" 850TVL Color Monitor, and views on RF moulator to multiple Plasma and Rear Projection Tvs throught the house. Waiting deposit now. I wouldnt sell it if it wasnt worth it. I coulfd have quoted a DVMRe instead, but this is a home, so the storesafe will suffice. I have some storefaes in for example, a local bank here, which is the Bahamas head quarters for a worldwide canadian bank.

 

Anyway, its worth the extra couple hundred dollars, but its totally up to you. I dont make anything out of the deal either way. I even rather let my clients pay wholesale for better products, then me make the money on the parts, and sell themsomething cheaper because they couldnt afford the better product. But thats just me )

 

Vitek has a 4 channel DVR also, with Mux, AVConsulting can give you more info on that, less remote video options such as playback, but lower cost. I just love the simplicity and compact size of the storesafe, and all its features.

 

Rory

 

PS. some great info can be found here: Plus they have a book or video you can buy, I have their book, tons of info in it for CCTV tech support & installation:

http://www.ltctrainingcntr.com

 

 

 

Well if you noticed, I am favoring the Kalatel line. For purposes of comparison, I did my homework on the SDVR-4-40 in order to be able to articulate what it is that I may want.

 

The SDVR-4-40 is between $1495 and $1526 at over 5 different online retailers. This is the "high end of acceptable" range. There are features that I simply do not need. The embedded CD-R and printer output are not completely essential. Any SINGLE method of retrieving images and/or video by any means is enough for me. The frame rate that is required is PURELY speculative, because I'm not a surveilance expert- this would obviously a place where I could use your help....

 

It seems that every day someone steals laundry, someone breaks the coke machine, and (just got off the phone about this) the company truck gets vandalized. The purpose of this system is not to store a month of data. In all reality, there is not much action here- but every single day people manage to cause some sort of hell for us (it only takes one person, in reality- and it's amazing how hard it is to get rid of someone in california). The purpose of this system is to protect our invetsments and to (2) prosecute offenders or (3) evict offenders.

 

We also have a very good property manager who is ready to quit because of all of this stuff. We want to have surveilence which is able to be viewed remotely-- from his on-site home, and from work, and from the owners' work and home. We should be able to leave the park and still prevent civil unrest.

 

There is also this issue of people driving their cars and ATV's onto our property and thrashing up our riverbed area. It pisses off the tenants because it's annoying, and it's a legal liability. We're not sure what we're going to do about that- but camera 2 will record who comes in and out of the park. A 4th camera will likely be able to detect if there is activity in the river bed (wide angle, not for positive ID).

 

Another thing i could use help on is the overal dogma of this security system. I don't know if it will function as what I might imagine. Am I wasting my time and energy? Is getting a pit bull going to be a better idea? Real time surveilance won't detect and eliminate threats- it would possibly deter the bad guys, add a sense of security for (the good) tenants, and record invaluable information about activities. That is what I am conjuring up in my mind, anyway.

 

So, I wouldn't mind stripping some features for a few hundred bucks, but if it's the difference between 1200 and 1500, and the loss of features is non-trivial, i'll go ahead and pay the 1500. If it's the difference of 800 and the difference in features, build quality, reliability, etc ARE trivial, than sure i'll take my 800 bucks and use it on something more useful.

 

Any and all reccomendations are greatly appreciated (which i hope you know by now!). I'm doing some reading up on the cameras.... still....

 

So to cut my searching in half--- is there a reaosn i should be looking into B/W cameras? What resolution do i really need? I need a couple of parameters to bank my search around- so far i know i need varifocal auto iris lenses, but can i get good night performance at 55+ feet? I'll add more night lighting if necessary.

Edited October 6, 2005 by Guest

[stabmaster 0]

Okay I think I found a camera that will do what I need it to. It fills out all of the requirements, except for the resolution. It has 480 lines of day/night resolution instead of 480 day/570 night (which costs about 2.5x the cost for each camera).

 

Here's the one I found:

 

http://shop.store.yahoo.com/easysecuritydepot/toik1ccdhida.html

 

plus one of the various auto iris varifocal lenses.

 

Is this a peicer or is it going to do the trick? After i tackle this, I gotta figure out how to do the video transmission (yikes).

 

I'm landing on the SDVR-4-40 unless there is an equally functional system for SIGNIFICANTLY less.