Employed with company 3 years, refusing to pay me.

[TMJALARMSNATE 0]

I don't really know where else to go with this inquiry...I thought that perhaps other experienced installers and reps could help me with this issue.

 

I have worked for a company called TMJ ALARMS LLC based out of crystal city missouri for the last 3 years. After about the first year it was made clear to me that these people did not know what they were doing when it came to payroll or any type of regulations whatsoever. I've worked countless hours under the premise that it "is my job as head installer" without pay. Most recently i worked a full month and was paid only $168.00 as the owner changed the company policies regarding payroll while he was cutting the checks. I was on a particular site where the incorrect equipment types were used to save money, and even after advising the owners of this i was told to install anyways. The system failed to meet the clients standards and i was forced to preform countless hours of trouble shooting. 20+ hours actually. The standard pay rate for the installation of a 4 camera system, DVR and 240ft of cable is $100.00 when the installation is completed. There is no mention of additional work, client training and technical support in the company outline as written by the owners (even though i was required to write an entirely new set of guidelines, not paid for it, and eventually they were thrown out because "the employees were making more than the owners")

 

The verbal agreement i had with the owners was $25.00 an hour to be billed to the client unless it is company negligence and not installer error, this verbal agreement was witnessed by multiple parties although i have nothing in writing.

 

Employees and sub contractors in the company are supposed to be paid bi weekly, my check was a full month overdue and after 2 weeks of waiting i refused to work until i got paid (using savings to pay rent, gas, and there is no company vehicles or gas cards), i was using my own transportation and being "reimbursed" for gas, the reimbursment money which i never actually received.

 

 

 

I am currently owed $575.00 as per verbal agreement, but the company has stopped returning my calls. I am currently in the process of hiring a labor lawyer but i would also like to contact the dept of labor to shut this shady company down for good. They are a stain to alarm and cctv industry and should not be allowed to do business.

 

And before you ask, I didn't quit the company because i was promised to be made a partner if i just "stuck with it" and would be allowed to "run my dept the way i saw fit" which was all empty promises just so i would continue the work.

 

 

Anyone have a good number to reach the dept of labor complaints dept or any further advice on my legal rights?

[VST_Man 1]

one thing I know.......2 sides to every story so....

 

 

not taking anything away from your side, but, airing your laundry like you just did is wrong, especially over 500 bucks. If you have a beef go after them in a nice way and if you do choose to "get even" do it with a cloak and dagger...........

 

and what goes around comes around............sounds to me that the biz is loosing money and your the odd man out. Not fair but it seems that even the BIG Cooporate types are just as good at walking away with large amounts of money owed....................

 

sorry you got slammed.............not very nice.

[survtech 0]

Two thoughts:

 

Were you hired as an employee or a subcontractor. If you were an employee, you could have a case with your state's labor department. If you are a subcontractor, it might pay to take them to small claims court, since you wouldn't need a lawyer for that.

 

The second thought is a quote from Sam Goldwyn, of MGM fame:

"A verbal contract is not worth the paper it's written on!"

[scorpion 0]

TMJALARMSNATE

 

You have my sympathy! I too have been in your shoes. I never did get resolution in my case. I did become wiser, and more careful.

 

What you describe happens more then you care to know. I have even see it with my own eyes.

 

You have now become more wiser for your troubles. You will never get resolution, and I would say to let it bounce off your shoulders, and take it as a lesson learned. Please do not let this "get" to you.

 

I know you are angry! I know you are ready to explode! What you want to know is this " why in this day, and age, that someone can get away with this crud"!!! If you or I did this, then why would some attorney general come down on us, and give us legal action, yet these morons get away scot free!

 

What is going on!!

 

What you need to do is find a place and do a primal scream! (Restaurant employees, and managers can go in to a walk in refridgerator)!

 

They are probably having financial problems, and they are about to crash and burn. They are probably cheating on the sales tax, and claiming that the transaction was voided to make smaller payments. They probably have to order cod, as they have bounced credit card transaction, and the distributors will not take the company checks anymore. Now they have to call to get a total, and have a money order ready for the products to be delivered. They may not be paying sales tax at all, and it is a matter of time before they get caught by IRS.

 

Does this sound a bit close??

 

 

You need to find some documents before you leave, or quit (if you have not allready). Do not take any documents with you. These belong to the company, and you are not entitled by law, and you could be prosecuted for doing so. What you need to find is where it shows that you were on site doing a job. Perhaps hotel receipts, or receipts where you were on a job, and you had to go to Home depot, or radio shack to buy tools, or something to complete the job. Do you punch in and out even though you are on salary? You really need to sit down and think this out. What is there that shows you were working. Do you call on a cell phone to check out at the end of the day? "Hey boss. I installed everything. The customer is happy, and I need to go back tomorrow and show her/him how to operate the DVR. I will see you in the morning".

 

You can get the transactions from your own provider!!!

 

Do you have pay stubs that show you being payed by the hour, and then other pay stubs that show you being payed a salary because you went over 40 hours??? You can show that to the labor board, and you can get them to go after them for overtime due.

 

This is the kind of documentation that can bring them to their knees!

 

 

Here is a problem that you have. You have described a monetary value of $500. This is not going to get the attention of anyone. $1000.00 might be a felony where anything lower is a misdemeanor. If they plead down on a mesdemeanor then what?

 

Maybe they get probation? Maybe they pay a fine, and admit to know wrong doing? That would really set my brain on fire!!!

 

Go blow off some steam! You are only going to get yourself in trouble!

 

_____________________________________________________________

 

Before you go to work for someone get it in writing. Buy an audio recorder, and inform them that you ARE RECORDING! ( I do not care what your laws are. Tell it like it is). If they have a problem then that is a red flag!

 

Here is what you do. If you are on a cell phone then say something like "I do not have a pen with me, or I am in traffic and I cant write.

Can you do me a favor, and call me back on my cell. I will not answer and you can let it go to voice mail and would you leave that info as a message?

 

Have them send that info to you as an email. Print it out and keep it.

This is a great way to document everything! You can show where someone told you to downgrade to an inferior product, or to tell you to do sub standard work. Document everything as you never know what you may need down the road. I email back to myself dates, times, places, and a todo list. I take photos on a site survey, and I email them to myself. I take photos during, and after. If a wire gets lost during construction then I can refer to the photos, and track it down with a toner.

 

If a customer says that you broke something then those site survey photos will save your butt as there is the damage in the photos, and you have not even started an installation!! Whew! When I (very rarely, ok never) make a mistake I take photos of it, and I come clean with the customer and boss. I had a guy make me pay for extreme damage. In court I showed the site survey photo, and I showed my damage where I miss step and my foot landed on the drywall ceiling. you could barely see the bubble in the ceiling where my shoe made an imprint. When I left, the customer went to town creating damage so that He could get a remodel or something! People are nuts!

 

Check to see if they have their licenses. Get their business card. Go on line and check to see if they have committed any crimes. Court docs are free.

 

If you get a sense that they own the building then check it out. You can go online here in Florida and we can check property records.

 

 

If you are in a transaction and you cannot afford an attorney then write it on paper and then take it to your bank. Have them nororize the papers. One copy for you, and one copy for them.

[scorpion 0]

Bump

[TMJALARMSNATE 0]

The monetary value of this case is $8,575 according to my attourney (being that the deadline for payment has passed the max amount of days they have to actually issue the checks)

 

After 10 days in missouri it's a fine of 60 days at employee hourly rates (which mine were 25 an hour 8 hours a day, 5 days a week)

 

The only evidence i can get will be from the clients i served in the form of sworn statements and from fellow employees (2 others on my team) that he did the same thing to.

 

If the judge rules in favor of us, the company will topple...

 

Not to mention he kited checks to two of my sub contractors and gave me a check that bounced twice.

 

We are with a service provider so my time on site for the security systems will be logged via when i reported on site to the alarm coordinators and for the CCTV i have the clients who have already agreed to sign statements regarding how long i worked...the hourly however is here say, but at the very least i'll get min wage, right?

 

I worked as an employee without ever filling out tax information and when i quit as an employee and worked as a sub i was never required to fill out anything either...not even required to fill out a W9 or attain a sub contractors license, or provide proof of insurance...I was never informed that i needed any of these to work until i did some research today.

 

I think that after i attain the statements from the clients i should be good with at least getting min wage for the hours i worked...and i think that will please my subs and get us the gas and tool money we need to get going again...

[scorpion 0]

TMJ ALARMS LLC based out of crystal city missouri

 

 

I would suggest editing this out. What do you think?

[alpine0000 0]

TMJ ALARMS LLC based out of crystal city missouri

 

 

I would suggest editing this out. What do you think?

 

i guess it all depends on how you look at it.

 

depends on whether or not you think dishonest companies identity should be protected.

 

if you were looking for a job in crystal city, missouri installing CCTV equipment, would you appreciate knowing the OP's information?

 

yea, it sucks for the company owners. but sometimes you pay a price for screwing people over. either way, it may become public knowledge anyways at the BBB if the OP takes this far enough.

 

if this was a big name department store that was screwing customers over and not paying their employees, wouldnt you think itd be all over the news, company name and all?

 

then again, there is another thing to consider when allowing an organization to be exposed... a very important part:

 

"how do we know that the accusations are accurate and true, and not just a disgruntled employee making false allegations"? (i am not in any way saying that the poster of this thread in any is doing this).

 

that is an entirely different beast, right there.

 

just food for thought. some people wont agree at all with me, so, of course, ymmv.

[mateck8888 0]

Hello.

 

I'm new to this forum, but I am surpsied to see something like this on here. It has nothing to do with CCTV. Perhaps a forum for lawyers, or contract law.

 

I certianly agree with cpasstoday... to at least not name names. How could this form possilby adjudicate this?

 

my newbie two cents...

Matt

[scorpion 0]

Us installers due tend to vent from time to time.

 

You will find posts about the "customer from hell", or the "install where everything goes wrong", or the employee who is so stupid: how stupid is he"!

 

My favorite posts are the people who say that crimp on is the way to go, and then there are those who say that twist on is the way to go!

 

Hey compression is the best, and it is better then anything else!

 

If you use compression then you are low life, slime bag, whale poop idiot of an installer!

 

Hey you guys: I buy twiston connectors and then I crimp then to the RG59!

 

 

Hey! I buy crimp on, and then I twist them on to the RG59, and then I can swing from a tree, and they do not fall off.

 

Hey I bought these crimp on for 25Cents!! Oh crud! I had to go back and replace every connector because the video kept going out.

 

Hey forget all of you! I solder to my RG59 then I wrap electrical tape around it, and then I solder the braid then I wrap that with metal foil tape, and then I heat shrink it, and then I wrap it with electrical tape, and then I dip it in to a can of plastikote!

 

I just twist the center conductors together then wrap with tape, and then I twist the braids together, and add more tape! I have not lost video on any install that I have done in 20 years.

 

Hey I bought this funky connector tool on ebay. Anyone ever use it?

 

 

 

 

Boy it can sure get fun around here!!!!

 

LOL!

[scorpion 0]

cpa**today

 

 

Hey! Give me some respect here!!! I am ava**today not cpcam!

 

LOL!

Edited November 26, 2008 by Guest

[mateck8888 0]

My favorite posts are the people who say that crimp on is the way to go, and then there are those who say that twist on is the way to go!

 

!

 

No, don't tell me there are people on this forum who don't use fiberoptics all the time!

 

Sorry I got the screen name wrong... don't know where I came up with that one!

 

matt

 

P.S. I really never have used fiber optics before, but it looks like it would be a cool thing to try.

[scorpion 0]

That is ok! That is what my wife calls me everyday!

 

LOL!

Edited November 26, 2008 by Guest

[TMJALARMSNATE 0]

I think we are getting off point here. I asked the questions i asked on this forum because installers and owners of alarm and CCTV companies will understand the laws, regulations, and rights of employees and sub contractors.

 

And yes, also to slander the name of the company so that no other employee ever has to go what i went through...or client for that matter.

[scorpion 0]

bump

[alpine0000 0]

It has nothing to do with CCTV. Perhaps a forum for lawyers, or contract law.

 

the original poster works as a CCTV installer for a company and is asking if other installers in the CCTV field has ever had to deal with this.

 

It has a lot to do with CCTV.

 

whether or not the company name should be exposed is of great debate, though.

[Jordan.Misner 0]

TMJ ALARMS LLC based out of crystal city missouri

 

 

I would suggest editing this out. What do you think?

 

Sorry for butting in, but;

 

I agree with Scorpion on this point (Even if the point is long-past due. Lol.) Regardless of how bad the company screwed you over, their rights should be protected, even after violating yours.

 

---------

 

On a side note to your situation, I understand that it sucks, I worked for a laptop company that sold refurbished equipment at high prices to make a killing off of uneducated buyers. Their promise to me was all of this commission money that I'd have made (Selling $72,000.00/month) would net me a hefty paycheque (Around $6,000.00 for that month, alone.) and another so much in warranty sales.

 

Because of all of this, I was so excited to get my paycheque at the end of the month, all I could do was brag to my fellow employee's about the money I was going to make. Well.. Because the agreement was verbal (I only signed a paper saying off-commission I was making $10.00/hour) and my paycheque was a meager $600 (bi-weekly pay, commission at the end of the month.) they didn't have to pay me anything, aside from my $10.00/hour.

 

 

 

Point being, a verbal contract can't be proven unless it's been recorded, and depending on your province/state there are even laws against that if you're not doing it appropriately. I had do do the same as Scorpion did, and let it roll off of my shoulders. My family and friends know who I worked for and not to go there for business due to their poor ideals in quality, but other than that, I don't think I'd ever slander the company for what they did to me; in fact, I'd almost congratulate them for their brilliance.

 

It's a hard road, but if you can get a suit out of it, obviously take it. Just because it's potentially money-lost, doesn't mean you couldn't use it anyways. Good luck with your suit (I only read the majority of the first page because I'm at work. Sorry if my last comment is out-of-date or anything.)

 

A parting quote;

[American History X]

-"Hate is baggage. Life's too short to be pissed off all of the time, it's just not worth it..."

[scorpion 0]

I did not let it roll off my shoulders!!

 

I bought the company webdomain from the guy who owned it and did the IT work, and then I sold it to a chinese company who parked it for the ads.

 

I also gained the ficticious name rights because they never renewed it.

 

I can hardly wait until they forget to pay the phone bill, and I can buy that too.

 

Piece by small piece I exact my small revenge to include working to help others open a business that competes with them.

 

The noose gets tighter on them, and I never forget.

 

I found out that sales have dropped 50% since I left them. Ouch!

[TMJALARMSNATE 0]

Is subject to review, there is nothing illegal with posting it. Actually i believe it to be the ethical thing to do.

 

 

It's like exposing a food and beverage company name for selling tainted products that could hurt consumers.

 

So i'm a whistle blower...yeah

 

Point in fact is i have already contacted several clients...and they are all on board to bring a mass lawsuit against the company with a monetary value in the 10s of thousands. The company will crumble and the investors will wish they listened to me from the start, the owners will go to prison and that will be that.

 

Justice will be served, the people i hired WILL BE PAID. I am not in the business of ripping people off gentlemen, i have always and will always put client satisfaction above all else, only proceded by the satisfaction of my workers.

 

They will reap what they have sewn

[TMJALARMSNATE 0]

A verbal agreement can be affirmed by an appropriate amount of witnesses with the correct reputation.

 

I am a soldier in the army reserves with an immaculate record

 

My subs are highly trained and skilled industry professionals with years of relevant work experience and degrees.

 

My employer is an ex crack addict with no industry experience and a history of ripping off clients and an arrest record to boot, the second owner has drug offeses on her record and the investor is scott free but never really managed the business.

 

 

Who do you think the judge will believe?

[RickA 0]

And why in the world would anybody with good sense pay attention to Scorpion, his wife is right 'BUMP'

[normicgander 0]

mateck8888 wrote:

It has nothing to do with CCTV. Perhaps a forum for lawyers, or contract law.

 

 

Dealer section perhaps?

 

However, Scorpion, as usual, makes good points!

[Smit9352 0]

Most recently i worked a full month and was paid only $168.00 as the owner changed the company policies regarding payroll while he was cutting the checks

I skimmed most of this thread but I did notice this part and it stuck out to me. On this note I would've been on the scout for another job.

 

 

Good luck and if all else fails, you can do like Scorpion did and find a tall street and some rope... start hanging em slowly but surely.

 

Thanks,

John

[sw 0]

I run a corp with 20+ employees. What stands out to me is that you made less than mandatory minimum wage for the hours you worked (If you can document the hours worked). Only part and full owners can make less than minimum wage

 

I know a lawyer who sued her ex-boyfriend for lost wages when they broke up. She claimed that she did his laundry and cleaned up after him.

 

So yes, you have a case. Yes you can win. But No, it's not worth your time when you can be out doing honest work for better money than the return on your time in suing for $600.

 

Logic vs emotion

 

It's tough to deal with it, but your better off to move on.

[CollinR 0]

I didn't read all of this but the first thing you should do is contact the dept of labor. These guys can get so far up his @$$ it's not funny. Also note you cannot file bankruptcy against the government, in this case they are representing you.

 

I have been there and done that, they had my $ in a matter of weeks.