HELP DESIGNING: custom vehicle video surveil system

[fadedout 0]

A little background: I live in a neighborhood with too many people - people that are reckless, drunk, and often poor. My girlfriend's Lexus has been hit three times in the past 2 years parked in her driveway or on the street - not one person left a note. I'm getting a new Land Rover and this won't be happening if I can help it.

 

It would also record any accidents while driving or help when in reverse with the rear mounted camera and LCD.

 

I'd like to install a camera on each side of the car that records 24/7. Mounting shouldn't be a problem. The side cameras will likely be mounted in the windows, but they might end up below the door if tinting is an issue. This should be the perfect level for recording license plates. Since most plates are illuminated i'm hoping color cameras will be good enough at night. I could easily switch to all B/W if tests prove otherwise.

 

Here are some of the elements i'd possibly like to incorporate:

3 color cameras

B/W camera with IR LED's for rear

DVR recorder

- will need some sort of device or setting that records the video stream when motion is detected in any camera

marine batteries for power

- inverter may be necessary

- battery charger for when vehicle is in use

- LCD screen to display the rear view camera while driving

 

I can easily construct or modify a commercially available enclosure and create mounts/dampers to secure each component. So many of these devices are just complete crap - poor quality imagery and cheap plastic construction. I'd like to use high quality cameras, wiring, recorder, and wiring. This will be integrally wired throughout the interior of the vehicle, but I still haven't worked it all out so I may need some wireless. There is space behind a panel where the navigation system normally is, but since I don't have factory nav the DVR will fit perfectly. Unfortunately the marine battery will need an enclosure it seems.

 

Does anyone have any info or links regarding a similar custom setup? I have seen commercial options but they are such poorly integrated from cheap components and overpriced. Cameras are extremely inexpensive on eBay and other sources. Can you recommend a quality camera? My biggest problem is finding a quality DVR unit. I need something that will be able to take the video input and begin recording at any motion. It will also need to display a feed onto an LCD. I am still not sure how to have the LCD power on with the vehicle, as opposed to 24/7 along with the recorder, but I supposed a manual power button for the LCD would suffice.

It would be great to connect to a laptop for analysis or even transfer to USB stick or memory card for police.

 

Can anyone recommend anything for this system? Possibly an audio trigger to record? Is there an affordable but QUALITY 'command center' or DVR type unit that you could refer me to? Not more of the same overpriced plastic crap from someone' 'home business' please. When you are spending big bucks you want it to be from a reputable manufacturer.

 

It would be super cool if the unit could use a ethernet/lan cable to hook up to a wifi unit to connect to my home wireless internet when parked outside. That way I could always check to make sure my baby is safe from anywhere in the world with internet.

[Scruit 0]

stuff

 

I've been working on several versions of my dashcam setup for 7 years now, so I know a thing or two about putting cameras in cars.

 

What you are describing - a setup that allows you to read license plates at any angle 24x7 is not something that's easy to do. If not impossible given current technology.

 

The basic problem is the field of view of the camera. The narrower the better for reading a plate, but then you lose coverage area. I generally find that a D1 image needs to be about as wide as the car to be assured of a good plate read. That being said, you'd need something like 16 or 32 cameras in a circle to get that kind of detail over every possible angle.

 

A traditional dashcam faces forward because the designer knows that that is where the action will most likely be. In your case the direction of the action is difficult to predict.

 

You may find that capturing the plate vs capturing the action require to different cameras.

 

Also bear in mind that you'll run a car battery flat overnight if you run pretty much any multi-camera setup.

 

 

Could you post a diagram of the street / where you park relative to you house? I'd suspect that you'd get better results from a collection of cameras on the house - one wide-angle showing the whole street, one medium FOV image showing the actual car and about one car length either side, and then a couple with hi mm lenses that capture the license plates at choke points further up the street.

 

 

If you insist on a car-based camera that can capture license plates at any angle then you could try a hi-megapixel camera with a fisheye lens looking directly up. Then you could use dewarping software to 'fold' the image back to a normal viewing angle and the megapixel resolution might let you 'zoom in' and read the plate. Dunno if this can even be done, but it's an interesting idea. http://www.sunex.com/dslr/360pano.htm

[fadedout 0]

Thanks for the reply Scruit. I actually looked over many of your posts researching this issue - very informative.

 

I live in an apartment in an extremely urban setting. Depending on the time or day of the week, I may end up getting a parking spot right outside or 4 blocks away. Its really that bad, and hence my dilemma. For the moment a home system just couldn't work unfortunately.

 

I'm thinking 2 dedicated heavy duty 12v (marine?) batteries with a relay if necessary to complete the charger circuit when the vehicle is running. Since the setup is only recording motion, i'm hoping that will help out a bit with battery life. Unfortunately depending on where it gets parked there could be motion all day and night.

 

I like the idea of the camera pointing up with the fisheye, but that opens up a few more issues. It would look absurd on top of the vehicle. Since it is up so high, a car would have to be a fair distance away before the plate would even be in view.

 

My idea is to have cameras essentially at license plate level sticking out from the underside (ie. within the rear bumper). If a car backs into me it should be close enough to record the license plate, but that may be wishful thinking. I think a much better view would be to have a camera on each corner of the car, but then i'd have to somehow splice the 2 rear images together for a backup camera. But it would give a great FOV if done successfully. I don't need to get every angle, but with 3 or 4 cams at plate level I figure that at least one of them might catch the plate or at the very least the color and model of the car. I have a scene playing in my head about a car trying to do a U turn in the street or pulling out of a driveway hitting my car and in the process it seems like the plate should flash in front of the camera some time in the loop de loo. If it was a corner cam it would probably get a very quick shot of it driving down the street as well.

 

Have you used cameras close to license plate level on any of your systems? So if a car slowly backs into you and then slowly backs away, is there a time when it has a clear decipherable view of the plates? Of course this is wildly dependent on just about everything, but are you trying to say that you have tried this without luck?

 

I'm not really interested in reading someones plate from 30 feet away, but more when it is in the process of hitting and then pulling away (but maybe what you are trying to say is that they might need to be 30 ft away to be in the FOV, and then by that time the plate is unreadable?)

 

I think the easiest and cheapest setup (since I already have alot of the gear) may actually be an onboard laptop in the trunk with video card. Would allow more complex sensor and recording setups, USB cameras, and easy wifi. Allowing GPS data overlay with less hardware, or even the splicing and display of the 2 rear video feeds onto an LCD. Would be great for future automation or multimedia additions. The problem with PC's as we all know is reliability. I just don't trust it 24/7 to record motion without having to reboot or crash etc.

 

I know way too many people who have had their mirrors ripped off, hoods jumped on, panels bashed in, windows broken, or otherwise vandalized. You see this kind of damage all the time, but i'm stuck here for the moment. I'm just dreaming about getting restitution and having some punk stuck with a felony hit and run. If its even remotely feasible then it will be totally worth it.

 

I actually had a bike stolen right in front of a CCTV security firm here. I saw cameras fixed in the direction and contacted them for any footage but they never responded, figures.

[MacUser 0]

How about this? I don't know anything about but ran across it when looking for an in car camera mount. mobilewatchman (dot) com

[fadedout 0]

How about this? I don't know anything about but ran across it when looking for an in car camera mount. mobilewatchman (dot) com

 

Yeah I saw that in my searches... it does seem a reasonable solution and has alarm input etc. Cost is somewhat prohibitive for what is included and it looks like something I could throw together with my own components. Will definitely be taking a few ideas from there.

[alpine0000 0]

Since the setup is only recording motion, i'm hoping that will help out a bit with battery life.

 

That doesnt matter. Recording or not, the cameras are still powered up and sending video to the dvr/computer, and the dvr/computer will still have to be powered on.

 

 

Also bear in mind that you'll run a car battery flat overnight if you run pretty much any multi-camera setup.

[fadedout 0]

Since the setup is only recording motion, i'm hoping that will help out a bit with battery life.

 

That doesnt matter. Recording or not, the cameras are still powered up and sending video to the dvr/computer, and the dvr/computer will still have to be powered on.

 

 

Also bear in mind that you'll run a car battery flat overnight if you run pretty much any multi-camera setup.

 

I figured that with a DVR/camera setup, significantly less energy would be used when the hard drive is not use, but point well taken. And of course laptops are a major power sink if I go that route. Using the vehicle battery is not even an option. The worst that could happen is the aux batteries die.

 

I'm definitely going to use at least two deep cycle batteries in parallel. I hope charging works out, I don't want to have to plug it into the wall every couple of days. I guess i'll go see some car audio guys - they'll know about this. I'll need to work out the numbers and find an acceptable compromise between recording time, batteries, and time between charges. Probably just direct DC-DC converters to run all the gear. Inverter if the DVR needs it.

 

Right now i'm really just trying to find some great B/W cameras and a DVR.

[alpine0000 0]

good luck with the setup!

 

may i suggest a couple of yellow-top optima batteries and a battery isolator?

 

also, maybe youll want to upgrade your alternator to at least a 100 amp alternator, if not more (to make for easy, pain-free recharges).

 

id also make sure that the cameras are 12v, and not a 24v variation. and the fewer cams you can get away with, the better (as far as longetivity of battery power is concerned).

[Scruit 0]

Sorry for the delay in responding. Completely forgot about this thread.

 

I've been toying witht he idead of switching my car's rear-facing camera from being inside the rear window to being mounted on the towbar instead. I have a waterproof camera that should work fine.

 

 

The way I see it you have a few problems to overcome:

 

1) Lighting level:

- Camera being blinded by headlights or sun

Cameras with fixed iris lenses are terrible at handling extremes of light. A car with it's headlights on facing towards your camera will blind your camera. An auto-iris camera will do better but you're still likely to have problems reading the front plate because the plate will be relatively dark compared to the rest of the scene.

 

Solution? Some kind of additional illumination (IR, 950nm to be invisible to people) and an IR pass filter on the lens will reject all non-IR lights. It'll turn the scene to black and white but will give you a much better chance of seeing the plate.

 

 

 

2) Field of view:

- Wider means less camera to cover the whole area, but less chance of catching the plate. Tighter means more chance of catching the plate (if the car comes into view) but less chance of the car passing through the field of view.

 

Solution? Try to predict where the car will be when it hits you. If you are talking about people sideswiping you on the way past then you could try to mount one camera facing where the rear plate will be as the car is driving away. If you park on the road (facing with traffic, not against it) then you can have one auto-iris camera fixed on the lane immediately to the front/left of your car at about 45deg. The rear-facing camera will face the opposite lane to catch the rear plate of those cars - however I'd be surprised if you were sideswiped by an oncoming car as it would have to be on the wrong side of the road to hit you....

 

If you are worried about someone bumping into you as they parallel park then you can try a camera mounted at bumper level - the light level might not be a problem because once the car gets close enough to hit you it's headlights won't be shining on the camera. A camera mounted at the front also will do the same job.

 

 

3) Battery life:

- Even if not recording, the DVR will take some juice. A single ebay bullet camera that was left on in my Maxima would run the battery down in 3 days.

 

Solution? A deep-cycle battery connected to your main battery with a automatic cutover switch. When the engine is running it charges the DVR battery. When the engine is off the DVR battery runs the DVR. If you run the DVR battery flat then the car still starts no problem. That switch may cost you $100. Battery would be about $75.

 

 

 

Sorry for the delay in responding. Completely forgot about this thread.

 

I've been toying witht he idead of switching my car's rear-facing camera from being inside the rear window to being mounted on the towbar instead. I have a waterproof camera that should work fine.

 

 

The way I see it you have a few problems to overcome:

 

1) Lighting level:

- Camera being blinded by headlights or sun

Cameras with fixed iris lenses are terrible at handling extremes of light. A car with it's headlights on facing towards your camera will blind your camera. An auto-iris camera will do better but you're still likely to have problems reading the front plate because the plate will be relatively dark compared to the rest of the scene.

 

Solution? Some kind of additional illumination (IR, 950nm to be invisible to people) and an IR pass filter on the lens will reject all non-IR lights. It'll turn the scene to black and white but will give you a much better chance of seeing the plate.

 

 

 

2) Field of view:

- Wider means less camera to cover the whole area, but less chance of catching the plate. Tighter means more chance of catching the plate (if the car comes into view) but less chance of the car passing through the field of view.

 

Solution? Try to predict where the car will be when it hits you. If you are talking about people sideswiping you on the way past then you could try to mount one camera facing where the rear plate will be as the car is driving away. If you park on the road (facing with traffic, not against it) then you can have one auto-iris camera fixed on the lane immediately to the front/left of your car at about 45deg. The rear-facing camera will face the opposite lane to catch the rear plate of those cars - however I'd be surprised if you were sideswiped by an oncoming car as it would have to be on the wrong side of the road to hit you....

 

If you are worried about someone bumping into you as they parallel park then you can try a camera mounted at bumper level - the light level might not be a problem because once the car gets close enough to hit you it's headlights won't be shining on the camera. A camera mounted at the front also will do the same job.

 

 

3) Battery life:

- Even if not recording, the DVR will take some juice. A single ebay bullet camera that was left on in my Maxima would run the battery down in 3 days.

 

Solution? A deep-cycle battery connected to your main battery with a automatic cutover switch. When the engine is running it charges the DVR battery. When the engine is off the DVR battery runs the DVR. If you run the DVR battery flat then the car still starts no problem. That switch may cost you $100. Battery would be about $75.

 

 

 

 

 

This setup would require 4 cameras. The front/rear bumper cameras could be relatively cheap non auto-iris. The diagonal license plate camera would need to be auto-iris and possibly even with an IR cut filter / IR emitter so that it can deal with the glare of taillights that the wider FOV will give. You also need one overall camera that will explain what the target car did. License #s are useless unless you can prove the car with that license # did something wrong.

 

Not a final solution - just a starting point for discussion.

[Scruit 0]

Dangit - you got me thinking now. It's always dangerous to get me thinking.

 

The rear-facing camera in my car is attached to the rear window using suction cups and it gives a relatively good view that is protected from the elements. However it's looking through tinted glass and is not able to read license plates.

 

So I mounted a cheap fixed-iris weatherproof bullet camera to the top of my towbar. Next time I drive anywhere I'll pull the video and compare. With the camera in it's new location it should get plates from anyone who hits the back of my car (either in a parking lot on on the road).

 

I'll post the results of the road test.

[Scruit 0]

Ok, here's the comparison of the In-The-Window camera versus the On-The-Towbar camera.

 

"In the window"

 

(Waiting at a red light)

 

Pros:

- Higher angle of view - can see either side of the vehicle behind me even if he's almost touching my bumper.

- Inside the car is protected from the elements

- I can use the little black box that shows what my brake lights/turn signals are doing

- Can use an 'indoor' camera

- Higher angle means cam won't be blinded by low beam headlights. (although at night you only see headlights)

 

Cons:

- Limited FOV due to the roof/parcel shelf/c-pillars

- Tinted window reduces colors and makes it almost useless at night (can only see headlights)

- Not able to see license plates

 

 

 

"On the towbar"

(Starbucks)

 

Pros:

- License plates!! If someone rear ends me (while parked or on the road) and they run then I have a good chance to getting a license plate to give to the police.

- Better lighting and colors.

- Although low beam headlight may blind the camera at regular following distances, once the car gets close enough to do any damage the headlight are no longer going to be visible the the camera.

 

Cons:

- Low angle means if a car is almost touching my bumper then that's all I'll see.

- Have to mount my taillight box in view of a different camera.

- Have to use a weatherproof camera and mount it in a way that won't allow it to be damaged under normal driving conditions (ie high slope driveways that sometimes catch my towbar, or if I back into a snow drift.)

[scorpion 0]

I noticed in the post about license plate recognition that NEGATIVE VIEW never comes up.

 

I believe negative view will give you a better license plate shot than regular cameras.

 

Negative view is worthless for normal video shots.

 

This may not be the camera of choice for mounting on a vehicle, but it will give you a frame of reference to get you started for looking for an IP 66 rated bullet with the same features as this one:

 

http://usaginc.com/viewspec.php?sku=US-PC-405

 

The spec does not show it, but this has the negative view.

 

If you are a dealer then you can call Juan Gayo, and tell him Scorpion sent you at 1 954 570 7655 and he can set you up with a demo over the internet with a license plate that they have screwed to the wall. I am sorry for the end user as this demo is not available.

 

What do you guys think about negative view for license plate recog?

Edited December 27, 2008 by Guest

[scorpion 0]

This also has the negative view, and this may be a better choice for automotive aps.

 

http://usaginc.com/viewspec.php?sku=US-PC-410

 

4.8 watts 12 volts

 

I do not know if the rated watts is while zooming in and out, and if there is an "idle" wattage.

[Scruit 0]

I noticed in the post about license plate recognition that NEGATIVE VIEW never comes up.

 

...

 

What do you guys think about negative view for license plate recog?

 

Can I do the same thing by loading the jpg image into Photoshop and doing a "negative colors" filter? I have used photoshop in the past to adjust the brightness/contrast/hue of an image to make a plate more readable, and I have tried a negative view also. But that's in post-processing - I've never tried a negative camera...

 

The negative view would be useless as a dashcam - ie it would render that camera as a license-plate-only camera.

 

Is there something about the video being in negative that would make the plate easier to read? I have found that sometimes the interlacing of a full D1 image causes those jagged edges on objects that are fast-moving enough that the object moves between the two interlaced D1 frames. That makes a plate tough to read from a paused video image. The plate can be easier to read when played back very slowly verses just paused.

 

 

I tried searching for examples of license plate cameras using negative images, but couldn't find any. Do you know where I could example pics?

[Scruit 0]

Is this what you mean by negative view? I used MSPaint "Invert Colors"

 

[scorpion 0]

Yes!

 

I think your photo gives a good example of how the camera would do it!

 

The words in the red area of the plate seem to "pop" out a little better in the reverse image.

 

Scruit can explain to the others how the green is the opposite of red in the color wheel, and that is why that area turns green in the reverse image.

[Scruit 0]

Scruit is lazy. I'll let Wiki do the 'splainin

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_wheel#The_colour_circle_and_colour_vision

[scorpion 0]

LOL! You are too funny!

 

Wiki, an educator's best friend!!

[Scruit 0]

This is how the rear bumper-cam sees a car with it's headlights on that is 5' from my back bumper:

 

[scorpion 0]

Can you negative image the night time shot?

[Scruit 0]

Can you negative image the night time shot?

 

[scorpion 0]

What do you think with WDR Wide Dynamic Range cameras?

[Scruit 0]

What do you think with WDR Wide Dynamic Range cameras?

 

Haven't tried one. Don't think I'd want to install it under my bumper - if I'm gonna get tagged in a parking lot (or back into a snow drift) I'd rather wreck a $75 ebay special than a $400 brand-name camera...

 

What is the best priced WDR that you know of?

 

 

(Interesting legal Q: If someone hits the back of my car in a pakring lot and damages the bumper and camera, then can I claim for the cost of the camera? What if the camera was like $500 or something? Would that be like claiming for "the picasso in the trunk"

[scorpion 0]

I would refer you back to your insurance agent. Then again with enough money you could insure you derrier for a million dollars like JLO!!

 

 

For others who come to this thread from a search engine:

 

I would imagine you could. I am thinking of those "antique", or "custom" cars. Suicide doors, chops, and custom flair, fenders, and such with metal, and welding, and other fabrication techniques.

 

They insure streched limos, so I would imagine that you could insure the cameras, the wiring, the DVR, and the GPS equipment.

 

The question comes down to what is covered, and what do you have to do to document before an accident such as keeping all of the receipts, and taking a camcorder, and walking around your vehicle to document the mounted equipment.

 

When my 62 nova was crashed by the auto mechanic's son who thought that he could "test drive it" when the shop was closed behind his father's back it was covered for everything to include the one up custom paint job.

 

Yes ladies! Men do cry real tears!

 

The young kid has now learned that there are things such as custom clutches, and that there is no slippage what so ever. My left leg was three times bigger then my right leg with the constant "leg presses". Basically you put you foot on the clutch, and then you slide your foot to the side, and off the pedal, and you do not (what ever you do) bend your knees, and lift your foot unless you wish to eat said knee right in the face!!

 

Oh yes! When driving it do not forget to hang on for dear life! I sure do miss that car!

[Scruit 0]

Let me add that in wet weather the bumper cam lens gets covered in moisture - very quickly becoming useless.

 

The rear windshield of a sedan is kept mostly clear in the rain by air rusing down off the roof - the turbulent low pressure pocket right under the bumper has no such natural protection.