cctv camera advice

[Aaron123 0]

Hey,

 

I'm new to this forum and also quite new to cctv, i'm currently in my first year of my electrical apprenticeship and my dad has asked if i could install a cctv system for him.

 

I've got my hand on a second hand vista(don't know model) DVR, all i need is the camera's and a psu, some bnc's and some rg59.

 

I would like advice on which cctv camera's are good for the money, he wants about 6 of them, 2 of them that pan/tilt (not fully functional ones, just ones on a servo of some sort that move back and forth. But he also wants it done cheaply it's also for outdoor and IR

 

So to summarise it, i need 4 IR dome and 2 pan/tilt IR camera's.

 

Would i need IR lamps as well?

 

Thanks in advance for any replies

 

Aaron

[griffonsystems 0]

its my opinion that IR cant be done cheap (less than $200/camera) and any camera that has the IR lights already mounted in the camera are garbage - these cheap domes and bullet cams with the IR lights surrounding the lens will give you maybe 15ft of coverage but never very good... you need IR separate from the camera and you need true day/night cameras

 

someone feel free to prove me wrong with pictures

 

if you do go cheap find tight shots - front door, garage door all covering 10ft squares of view not large areas like a backyard etc

 

cheers

 

pg

[Aaron123 0]

With these domes with IR led's around the lense, could i just put another IR lamp about 5 ft away to allow the camera to see further?

[scorpion 0]

GriffinSystems is right!

 

Avoid this style at all costs! RUN!

 

http://eclipsecctv.com/ECL-5I_dome_camera.html

 

This is what I would recommend:

 

http://avssys.net/?s=product&sub=camera&cat=outdoor&p=vnd49ir

 

Find this kind of connector:

 

http://eclipsecctv.com/ECL-1110_connector.html

 

Twist on are much easier for the do it yourself

 

Here is how you can put on a twist on connector.

 

http://scorpiontheater.com/shoothouse.aspx

 

Scroll half way down the page till you see Stripping RG59 for a BNC connector.

 

This will show you how to strip the RG59.

 

how to fix video source problems with monitors

http://scorpiontheater.com/videosourceproblems.aspx

 

How to trouble shoot camera problems

http://scorpiontheater.com/cameraproblems.aspx

 

How to run wiring down drywall walls from an attic

http://scorpiontheater.com/wiringdrywall.aspx

 

Brief notes on power supplys. Use the Altronix links

http://scorpiontheater.com/pstips.aspx

[iamomeed 0]

hello sorry to bounce in your thread

 

 

i was wondering if you go into more detail as to why the cameras with the IR around them are crap.

 

i was thinking about buying 4 of these domes from a local dealer near my house at $45 each. these are for an indoor office space.

 

and 2 of these bullets for outside around $80

[kensplace 0]

IR is best as a seperate light source, so you can aim it where you need it.

Plus - the IR will attract insects etc, so if the IR is next to the cam, that cam will probably be showing insects crawling over the screen.... Seperate IR will have less of a problem that way.

 

There may be other issues with IR in domes (such as reflection of the IR) but I dont use IR domes, perhaps those that do can comment on that...

[scorpion 0]

Round plastic domes with IR inside is similiar to standing in front of a mirror while holding a flashlight aimed at the mirror.

 

Now tell me what you see?

 

A lot of glare, or bounce back?

[Aaron123 0]

I want to post a link to some camera's but i need 5 posts.

 

Sorry for spam.

[toast68 0]

Keenspec mentions that a camera with the IR "attached is not the way to go. This one appears to have just that. Is the difference that you do not want the IR's in a dome to reflect back into the lens but if they are around the lens but "unobstructed" it is ok?

[stu007 0]

@Scorpion

 

Sorry, can you explain what the difference is between the I.R camera you recommend versus the one you don't rate.

[scorpion 0]

When talking about cameras then it is real easy for me to stick my foot in to my mouth.

 

The cameras that are in the picture above do not look like they would suffer bounce back like this camera would:

 

http://eclipsecctv.com/ECL-5I_dome_camera.html

 

Only you the self installers, or professional installers can dictate what is good, and what is not good.

 

The answer to your question lays with the level of your budget for your project, and the level of quality that you may demand.

 

If you were tasked to install a CCTV system for a large high end diamond dealer what would you pick? Do not forget that your reputation is on the line.

 

If you were tasked to install a CCTV system for a residence, and you were given a budget that left you scratching your head about how you would make it happen, then what kind of cameras would you use?

 

I may say avoid the terrarium bubble because the cameras, and the IR are both inside the bubble, and they both see the same bubble surface. Think of an astronaut with a flash light mounted to his head, and he is wearing his helmet. That light is going to bounce of his shield, and blind him in the eye!

 

There are a million ways to overcome this problem. Where each IR LED is located then you can design a plastic housing the fits the contour of the buble, and the IR can be sunken in to a "cave". This would direct the IR out of the bubble, and the "cave", or tunnel would prevent the IR from reaching the camera.

 

What other techniques have you seen to separate the camera, and the IR?

 

I am sure there are bubble dome cameras that are an excellant choice, and there may be a manufacture who thinks that I hate all bubble dome, and they may feel that they are being unfairly lumped in to the category of "bad camera", and that would be unfair for me to do so.

 

You have to test each camera based on it's own merit. Forget what the paper spec says. Check it, and test it, and make your own decision.

 

I do like the other style of the camera that I linked to. We will call this the "ball" camera. The IR, and the Camera are not in a dome, or a bubble.

 

The Camera is in the center, and there is "shield" around the camera blocking the IR. The glass is flat, and the camera, and the IR LED sit flush to the glass preventing bounce back.

 

Now if the camera fits your budget, and your level of security needs then use it.

 

Make a list of what you want a camera to do. This is known as a "build to a spec list".

 

After you install the camera, and compare it to how you expected it to perform then call this "Built as list". Did your built as list match your build to list?

 

For the DIY they are at a disadvantage. They are not going to go out, and buy 10 cameras, and keep the one that matches the budget, and spec that they are looking for unless they are rich. You have to depend on what others say about different cameras.

 

Do not go with what I say. I may have had a bad "batch" of a good camera, or one camera may have ruined me from whole "family" of like cameras.

 

Installers sway back, and forth on cameras. When we get a camera that fits the needs, the spec, and the budget then we stick with it.

 

We get handed cameras all the time, and we are asked to test them to see what we think. The goal is to get us to buy from them.

 

There are camera that are like other devices that you may have heard about. They rock the world when they first come out. They set a new standard for every other manufacture to reach for.

 

After production is raised to meet the high demand it seems that the quality goes down. I remember this with a Sears battery many years ago. It was almost a secret among a small group of people who knew about it. With marketing, and advertising the brand took off, and the battery went to crap. This is when the live soft brand first took the auto battery market by storm. How can you have a battery that does not have removable caps?

 

There are cameras that were awful when I first laid hands on them, and then I never used them again. I then come in to contact with them again, and I have to say wow, this has come a long way baby! Maybe the increase in production allowed them to work out the bugs, and make it a quality camera.

 

When it comes to low budget camera, and the manufacture wants to make it as cheap as they can, then a cheap plastic dome is quick, and easy. Plugging a bunch of IR LEDs around a camera is cheap, and easy. Why is the camera cheap inside that dome? It may not have WDR (wide dynamic range), or some of the electronic circuitry that create a great video camera.

 

When it is recommended to separate the IR from the camera then we are talking about good, clear, night time video.

 

Think about an advertising picture shoot, or a beautiful model shoot.

They use lighting in a special way. They do not have one giant spot light next to the camera, and they shoot the production. They want to create a mood. What are they selling? What is the target audience? What style will a photographer use to create the atmosphere needed.

 

cool = blue

hot = red

 

Do you notice that they put the lighting in to an umbrella?

Notice that the lighting is from various angles? Straight on to the face, and from above to recreate the highlights that you would see from the sun. You may see them use side lighting to create texture of the surface of what they are shooting. Brick building, and thick tree bark would not show the texture with bright straight on lighting.

 

We may want to take CCTV IR lighting, and bounce it up in to the over hanging branches of a tree. This will difuse the IR lighting, and allow it to be redirected back down in many different directions. Side lighting with IR lighting makes a big difference when looking at the scene.

 

You can cheat with bullet cameras if you can mount them in a way where the IR from one side lights the viewing area of the other bullet camera.

 

Have fun with it. Play with the cameras, and create what works for you.