ICRealtime – The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly

[DaveM 0]

After using an AVTech 761 for a bit over a year, I wanted something with better internet viewing and clearer recorded video. I also had added cameras, and needed more channels. I am a hobbyist, not a dealer so my experience is somewhat limited with DVRs and camera equipment although I do work in a technical field.

After scouring the forum for a few months I decided that an ICRealtime DVR should fit the bill. I was making some inquires about purchasing one when one of the forum members put his up for sale. I bought a Pro 8 Channel model for a good price, and I was really impressed in the beginning. Unfortunately there were issues with this model, and I hope my experience will help others making decisions. This model has been out for a few years now, but my biggest gripe is with the company.

 

The Good:

 

Great recorded video and live internet viewing. Compared to the highest quality D1 on the 761, this recorder was better on just taking it to its second level of five (basic). The best CIF recording on the 761 was not as good as the lowest quality on the Pro.

 

Good hard drive usage when set to VBR recording.

 

Built like a tank.

 

I like the PTZ controls, they are easy to use.

 

The latest firmware (8-2007) adds USB mouse as well as a timed daily reboot feature.

 

The Bad:

 

This unit does not record D1. The product documentation states live display and playback are D1. I guess that if you take a CIF recording and up-convert it, then technically it is D1. If you check the ICRealtime web site, every sample image is at CIF. When playing back a video file using VLC the properties show it as CIF, and finally this recorder is made by Dali as a model DV-109C. Their spec page includes the recording quality info that is missing from the ICRealtime page, it is clearly CIF recording.

http://www.dali-tech.com/en-ProductInfo.asp?TypeID=8&ID=13

 

A little hard to set up, but OK once you get the hang of it.

 

It’s big, 19â€

Edited February 13, 2009 by Guest

[alpine0000 0]

good synopsis, and nice to know. sorry about your experience. ive never owned any icrealtime stuff before, but was looking at their PTZ cameras. i might have to think twice now...

[securitymonster 0]

sounds like you might have an issue with the DVR, but I can tell you than Andrew is on the ball and ICRealtime takes care of us as a dealer.

 

Often times when I call Andrew, it goes to voicemail, minutes later, I get an email stating "Hey, whats up? I'm on the phone but I saw that you called". I had issues with a DVR that would take any and all settings, except an IP address, the changes wouldn't commit. Andrew sent a new one out, next day air, at ICRealtime's expense.

 

I'm sorry that you had a difficult runaround. As for the PRO series, we haven't sold one of those in about 1.5 years, the flex series has surpassed the PRO machine and this is the reason Matt mentioned they don't sell the PRO anymore.

 

It sounds like the biggest issue is that your an end user, and to be honest, thats how it should be. I'm personally frustrated at distributors selling to end users and cutting out the dealers.

 

If your interested, I would be happy to talk to Andrew and/or Matt personally for you to see what I can do for you. If your interested, send me a PM.

[DaveM 0]

Positive comments like yours are a big reason I decided to go with an ICR DVR.

 

It sounds like the biggest issue is that your an end user, and to be honest, thats how it should be. I'm personally frustrated at distributors selling to end users and cutting out the dealers.

 

This DVR was bought from a dealer originally. Part of the problem is that the dealer is no longer in the CCTV business. I made this clear when I asked for service. How would you feel if your Sony 46" TV needed service and Sony refused to talk to you?

 

I can handle being told the unit is out of warranty and it will cost big bucks to fix it, but ignoring me really ticks me off. I called Pelco once, they didn't require serial numbers, dealers name and receipts in order to talk to me.

 

I have replaced the hard drive, the power supply, the fan, upgraded the firmware and reset to factory defaults. The problems are not caused by bad inputs or loose connections. I asked Matt for a worst case repair cost - a new main board and he told me they don't replace that.

 

I would be happy to give ICR another shot at making this right, and the way I was treated was just plain wrong. ICR will need to make an exceptional effort to turn me into a happy customer at this point.

 

I'm really impressed that you are willing to go to bat for me, I will send you a PM with my contact info. Thanks, Dave.

[Sawbones 0]

 

It sounds like the biggest issue is that your an end user, and to be honest, thats how it should be. I'm personally frustrated at distributors selling to end users and cutting out the dealers.

 

Excuse me very much, but I totally disagree.

 

Without end-users, you've got nothing... NOTHING. No market, no customers, no business.

 

I can't count the number of merchants I've dealt with who simply say "you need to contact the manufacturer for that problem." Why should it matter where the unit was purchased, if it's their product? People who buy from anyone but a dealer are second-class citizens who don't deserve service? The manufacturer can simply wash their hands of it and walk away?

 

In this day and age, that's a risky business decision. With the viral, distributed nature of media and online content, it's a naive business that thinks it can throw product out there, and simply dust customers off. A sale is a sale... and bad customer service is bad customer service. This is the kind of thing that spreads on message boards (like this one), blogs, online forums, YouTube, and other media. The potential sales you lose with that kind of imperious "Ohh... *sniff*... he didn't buy it from a preferred merchant? Well then... *sniff*... he can eat cake."

 

Do you think that's a smart thing to do? If so, please explain it to me.

[ilkevinli 0]

Man what a nightmare you had to deal with. Ill tell you what, after reading your post, I personally will never purchase anything from that company. If I were you, I would make a complaint with the Better Business Bureau.

[alpine0000 0]

It sounds like the biggest issue is that your an end user, and to be honest, thats how it should be. I'm personally frustrated at distributors selling to end users and cutting out the dealers.

 

Excuse me very much, but I totally disagree.

 

+1

 

I agree that you should *try* to take it back to the dealer, but I dont agree that you *must* go through the dealer, or the manufacturer wont talk to you or service your item.

 

thats bs.

[securitymonster 0]

So let me defend myself and clarify. I don't think the manufacturer should just "blow off" the end user. I believe in tech support, answering questions, helping on the minor stuff. But to handle an RMA directly with an end user is pushing it.

 

Now Dave is in a unique situation, given that the dealer went out of business.

 

As a dealer, I've been burnt by distributors and manufacturers. I might have lost a $85,000 deal, but that distributor/manufacturer lost a whole lot more as I will not do business with that distro/manf ever again. When the dealers get cut out, the end user ends up hurting the most. 99% of the distro/manf will never offer the same service/support to the end user as if they were dealers.

 

So, I'm not saying the distro/manf should blow off the end user, but simply point them to the dealer, or "a dealer".

 

With that in mind, I know Video Insight, Brivo, Microtek, Aiphone, and a few others offer great support directly to the end user, however, if it requires an RMA or heavy tech support, they will get the dealer involved and in my opinion, thats how it should be.

[kandcorp 0]

Mr. David M.

 

We have been more than accommodating to you and your DVR. Lets put this on the record that first; you did not buy this DVR direct from us nor through an authorized dealer. So any help from us was done as a favor. Even if the warranty was transferrable it has been expired for over a year. I have plenty of LOGGED calls from you. Our techs have worked many times with you via phone calls and emails. This is done because we try to help everybody we can even in your situation. Your DVR was here and tested without duplicating the issue you stated. So there is nothing else we could have done but send it back or offer a replacement board swap which our president Matt talked to you about. This again is nothing we have ever done with an End-User and again was just our way of trying to help you out. If there was anything we could have done short of replacing the entire DVR we would have done it. It think that is pretty good customer service especially from a manufacturer. Try calling Dedicated Micros, Speco, Sony, Bosch or any other surveillance products manufacturer and get half of the help that we offered to you. They won’t even deal with the end-users direct.

If there is anything else we can do to help you please let me know?

Edited February 3, 2009 by Guest

[DaveM 0]

Wow, I guess I hit a nerve.

 

We have been more than accommodating to you and your DVR. Lets put this on the record that first; you did not buy this DVR direct from us nor through an authorized dealer. So any help from us was done as a favor. Even if the warranty was transferrable it has been expired for over a year. I have plenty of LOGGED calls from you. Our techs have worked many times with you via phone calls and emails. This is done because we try to help everybody we can even in your situation. Your DVR was here and tested without duplicating the issue you stated. So there is nothing else we could have done but send it back or offer a replacement board swap which our president Matt talked to you about. This again is nothing we have ever done with an End-User and again was just our way of trying to help you out. If there was anything we could have done short of replacing the entire DVR we would have done it. It think that is pretty good customer service especially from a manufacturer. Try calling Dedicated Micros, Speco, Sony, Bosch or any other surveillance products manufacturer and get half of the help that we offered to you. They won’t even deal with the end-users direct.

If there is anything else we can do to help you please let me know?

 

Even if the warranty was transferrable it has been expired for over a year.

 

I never asked for anything for free or under warranty. I asked for repair. And besides, nowhere in your warranty does it state that it is for the original purchaser only.

 

 

I have plenty of LOGGED calls from you.

 

Yes, I spoke with techs 3 times.

1st time was a lady who was very nice, but didn’t follow though on getting a firmware upgrade.

2nd time was a tech who was also very nice, and did do the firmware upgrade.

3rd time was Ron in Arizona, another very nice person who agreed that the unit should be looked at.

Now if you count all the calls to John and yourself that went to voicemail and were never responded to, then that could be defined as “plentyâ€

[kandcorp 0]

No nerve was hit; I just wanted to clear up a few things for our forum viewers. Again, we are glad to help you with your DVR. This would mean either we can directly replace the unit or we can try to fix your problems. Since we have already tried to fix it and a new board/dvr would be the fix than that would be your only option. This came straight from the CEO/President and our techs.

 

I don’t understand what has “fallen through the cracksâ€

[catseyenu 0]

I can see where there may be a possible communication problem here but that in no way excuses the use of DaveM's full name in a public forum, especially after having any kind of business relationship with him.

I believe you've crossed a line here and might want to consider editing that information your post.

Times are getting tough and anything less than good customer relations and PR will cost you.

[DaveM 0]

This would mean either we can directly replace the unit or we can try to fix your problems. Since we have already tried to fix it and a new board/dvr would be the fix than that would be your only option. This came straight from the CEO/President and our techs.

 

and told you what it would take to get it repaired.

 

Nobody contacted me before the unit was sent back, or gave me any price quotes for repair. I wish they had.

 

After the unit was shipped back Matt told me that repairs can be from $100 to $1,0000. He also said replacing the main board was not something you do. I was open to all options. I still might be, please let me know the costs involved.

Thanks

[Sawbones 0]

I can see where there may be a possible communication problem here but that in no way excuses the use of DaveM's full name in a public forum, especially after having any kind of business relationship with him.

I believe you've crossed a line here and might want to consider editing that information your post.

Times are getting tough and anything less than good customer relations and PR will cost you.

 

+1

 

Please delete the man's real name.

 

That could easily be misconstrued as an attempt at intimidation.

[dopalgangr 1]

When I received the DVR back, all of my old recordings were on it, including recordings of the ICR techs tinkering with it for a total of 32 minutes power on time.

My settings were still intact and the logs did not indicate that it had been flashed or reset. The recordings from the test bench also had the flashing in them. This indicates that they never formatted the drive or reapplied the factory default.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7JtvcFM7UU

 

 

ICRealtime states on their web site the promise 100% customer satisfaction and they will do whatever it takes to fully satisfy every customer. This could not be further from the truth in this case. My DVR sat there for 19 days without being fixed. When I tried to call Matt S**** back I was transferred directly into his voicemail, I declined to leave a message.

 

Not to pick any side or to say that he's wrong, but in their defense he did post video of their techs and provided MattS full name. They should have their anonymity too.

[DaveM 0]

Very good point. Matt is the owner of the company, and has posted his full name on this forum in the past. But you are right, and I will delete the last name. The techs are anonymous, and after all, they did send the video back to me. The video supports what I have stated.

 

I was surprised to see my full name, but I am not terribly worried about that. I have been a professional in the telecommunications industry for 30 years and I stand by what I posted. I integrate multiple vendors’ products and try to treat our $10,000 customers as well as I do our million dollar customers. I attempted to do a fair post with pros and cons stating facts and timelines. I am not afraid to have my name associated with anything I’ve said.

 

Nuff said.

[dopalgangr 1]

Very good point. Matt is the owner of the company, and has posted his full name on this forum in the past. But you are right, and I will delete the last name. The techs are anonymous, and after all, they did send the video back to me. The video supports what I have stated.

 

I was surprised to see my full name, but I am not terribly worried about that. I have been a professional in the telecommunications industry for 30 years and I stand by what I posted. I integrate multiple vendors’ products and try to treat our $10,000 customers as well as I do our million dollar customers. I attempted to do a fair post with pros and cons stating facts and timelines. I am not afraid to have my name associated with anything I’ve said.

 

Nuff said.

 

yep, I had sorta the same issue with a Hitachi TV, they told me it would cost $1100 to fix a known defect (tv should have been recalled since every tv made during that time period was affected) on and off the phone with them for several months, they said they would do nothing since it was out of warranty, one class action law suit and a report to the BBB later they were my best friend and fixed it for free.

[ak357 0]

If there was anything we could have done short of replacing the entire DVR we would have done it. It think that is pretty good customer service especially from a manufacturer.

 

When did u become manufacturer

u are distributor for Chinese company

[Sawbones 0]

When I received the DVR back, all of my old recordings were on it, including recordings of the ICR techs tinkering with it for a total of 32 minutes power on time.

My settings were still intact and the logs did not indicate that it had been flashed or reset. The recordings from the test bench also had the flashing in them. This indicates that they never formatted the drive or reapplied the factory default.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7JtvcFM7UU

 

 

ICRealtime states on their web site the promise 100% customer satisfaction and they will do whatever it takes to fully satisfy every customer. This could not be further from the truth in this case. My DVR sat there for 19 days without being fixed. When I tried to call Matt S**** back I was transferred directly into his voicemail, I declined to leave a message.

 

Not to pick any side or to say that he's wrong, but in their defense he did post video of their techs and provided MattS full name. They should have their anonymity too.

 

Fair enough... and I agree. Most of us here are pseudonymous.

 

I should be clear that I'm not intending to take sides in this fight either.

[kandcorp 0]

Indeed. Dave posted the presidents full name and posted a video on Youtube of our techs without their consent.

 

David, we have offered you a fix and if you would like us to replace/repair your DVR I will make that happen. Just let me know. No problem at all. I think this thread has gotton a little drawn out. IC Realtime will stand behind their products as you you can ask any of our current dealers. We are known for our excellent support that is offered to our dealers and to any of our end-users. Please PM, Email or call with your decision.

Edited February 3, 2009 by Guest

[ilkevinli 0]

kand,

When are you going to address the fact that numerous calls that went to voicemails were never returned. Or how about the fact that there is video of your techs looking at the DVR and it clearly showing the issue he was complaining about ? Did you see the video ? How can they not see the issue ?

 

Dave please make a complainant with the BBB so that you may save someone else who doesn't read this forum from doing business with this company !

 

 

 

Indeed. Dave posted the presidents full name and posted videos on Youtube of our techs without their consent.

[kandcorp 0]

kand,

When are you going to address the fact that numerous calls that went to voicemails were never returned. Or how about that there is video of your techs looking at the DVR and it clearly showing the issue he was complaining about ? Did you see the video ? How can they not see the issue ?

 

Dave please make a complainant with the BBB so that you may save someone else who doesn't read this forum from doing business with this company !

 

 

 

Indeed. Dave posted the presidents full name and posted videos on Youtube of our techs without their consent.

 

The problem he was in reference to was an encoding issue. Not a problem with local playback or viewing. We addressed his problems and returned all his calls. If the voicemails were not returned in the proper amount of time I apologize for that. But, we did speak to him on many occasions including a call from the president on the day we shipped the unit back to him. And on that day we offered a fix to replace the units main boards.

[alpine0000 0]

you did not buy this DVR direct from us nor through an authorized dealer. So any help from us was done as a favor.

 

WOW, really? I am speechless. You couldn't have said it any worse. Has the President of IC Realtime seen the image you are painting of them on the internet?

 

So, you are doing IC Realtime consumers a "favor" by helping them after their dealer goes out of business? It should be something that you are obligated to do (and happy to do!), not just a "favor" on a case-by-case basis. Not only that, but it seems like the "favor" was a big hassle for IC Realtime, and you dragged your feet the entire time because you didn't think you should have to do it.

 

How about this -- the IC Realtime consumers do YOU a favor, and pay your salary by buying your products, and you should treat them accordingly if you want them to return.

 

All of this happened just in time, though. I was just about to shell out the money for two IC Realtime PTZ cameras on Valentines Day weekend! WHEW, that was a close call! I also narrowly escaped the purchase of a flex series DVR back in September, and decided to go with a different brand. It's too bad, too, because IC Realtime could've used that money for some 'communications' classes for it's employees, because some of your posts in this thread have been less than stellar (showing personal emotion). That's fine for most members, but coming from a representative of a company who is trying to advertise their product on a FORUM FULL OF POTENTIAL BUYERS -- not so good. Especially when your product is considered a "luxury", not a "necessity", in most homes during these tough economic times. Because, let's be honest... Your market includes Home Owners as well as Business Owners.

[C7 in CA 0]

I'm sorry to hear the OP is having a problem with his DVR. But from what I am reading the unit is discontinued, out of warranty, the company doesn't offer end user support, and the unit was sent in despite the fact no RMA was issued.

 

The biggest problem I see is ICRealtime did halfheartedly try to help; but the first email or phone call should have ended the issue by simply giving the OP the name and contact info of the next closest dealer.

 

All this thread is missing is dealer outrage that they were cut out of the loop by the manufacturer/distributor.

[securitymonster 0]

Wow, I know this is a public forum, but this is out of hand. Dave had a valid complaint, by the sound of his side of the story, he wasn't handled properly.

 

Now with ICRealtime involved, Andrews side of the story sounds like they offered a bit of help.

 

Now Dave has an opportunity for a resolution to his problem. All of these people, some of which are new to this forum, feel that its okay to "bash" on ICRealtime. Do you think there is a single company in the United States that doesn't have some sort of complaint?

 

This forum is great at times, but at others it really bugs me. I stopped participating here for awhile, along with a few other members, for the sole reason that advice is not taking. There is always somebody here that has the "Golden Answer" and is "Always Right".

 

And then to threaten somebody by saying "I was" going to buy something from you. That's ridiculous and childish!

 

I'm an ICRealtime dealer, I love thier products, Andrew always goes out of his way to help me, my customers love the product, and I will continue to sell it.

 

Come on people, if your mad at your wife, don't take it out on the forum members!