Challenging install

[capz 0]

Hi all. I've been doing research for an ip based system for our restaurant and my head is spinning. I'd appreciate some advice on choosing the right cameras. The infrastructure is in place for gigabit networking so we're going the ip route. The problem is the boss has me handcuffed as far as budget ($7000, 8-10 cameras). I'll save $$ by building the nvr pc, doing the install myself and using manufacturers free software. So I figure I have about $600 to $700/camera to work with. My biggest obstacle is the low light environment in four locations.

 

I've been testing a Vivotek FD7132 loaner. It gives a great picture in our basement storage area, which has plenty of light on motion sensors. But the 1/4'' cmos gives a very noisy picture in the dining, function and low-lit bar area. It will be disheartening if something happens and all we have to give to the police is video of the faceless drunk who assaulted one of our customers.

 

My questions (short version):

What am I looking for in an image sensor. I know the easy answer is 1/3'' ccd or larger, but any tips on sensor brands, i.e Micron etc.

Any pros here who have had success with a particular camera for a dimly lit restaurant?

 

I should also note the boss wants motion video at night. He won't allow me to install ir illuminators (for aesthetic reasons) or motion lights (only him and God knows why not). So I'll need integrated IR. All must be POE.

 

Thanks in advance for any tips. And great site! You guys know your stuff. I've learned more in an hour browsing these forums than a week of looking at manufacturers spec sheets. And while this whole process seems daunting, I'm fascinated as well. I'm a bit of a novice techie geek.

 

The picture is from the FD7132. I could probably do a better job focusing but the zoom/exposure knobs were finicky on this model. I got impatient. I had a pics from the low-light location but they were overwritten. Trust me they were not good.

[capz 0]

Since there were no suggestions, can anyone pick the best one out of these two for a low light install.

 

ACTI ACM-1231 megapixel

1/3" Micron Progressive Scan CMOS

Day and night with mechanical IR cut filter

 

ACTI ACM-1431

1/3" Sony SuperHAD CCD

Day and night with mechanical IR cut filter

 

*lux rating is not given for these cameras, it just gives you the 0 lux with IR on. I find that suspect, so I wouldn't buy without a demo.

[markcWAV 0]

Take a look at one of our IP camera vendors Inscape Data. They use the Sony lens and they are pretty inexpensive and come with a free software. www.inscapedata.com. Let me know if you are interested.

[zmxtech 0]

Acti would be my choice [For your budget]

 

that picture looks like the DVR`s compression is too high ?

do you leave the lights on all the time? [if not might need IR and a good IP cam]

 

Even the low end Acti 4200 has a better picture as does the AXIS 20X series

 

If you go the IR cut filter path may as well do it right with IR illumination

Better to have a sharp picture than a grainy color one

 

I just had a thief break into 6 cars here -he made the mistake of walking into my front yard its got enough IR to be seen from space, my pelco spectra color ""night camera""" grabbed a blury half ass'ed shot my IR IP cam wow!

1.3megapixel happy snap the police were most impressed

 

 

 

z

[coolie11 0]

Since there were no suggestions, can anyone pick the best one out of these two for a low light install.

 

ACTI ACM-1231 megapixel

1/3" Micron Progressive Scan CMOS

Day and night with mechanical IR cut filter

 

ACTI ACM-1431

1/3" Sony SuperHAD CCD

Day and night with mechanical IR cut filter

 

*lux rating is not given for these cameras, it just gives you the 0 lux with IR on. I find that suspect, so I wouldn't buy without a demo.

 

You do realize that these cameras are not Megapixel cameras but regular analog cameras with a built-in IP server.

 

You might want to look at these (http://www.acti.com/ProductsV2/Product_Information.Asp?strCatalog_ID=57803431-9E23-45A9-A1D8-81F13AC9D55F&strCategory_ID={1F7E10FF-DF72-4E23-A08D-7B19EB22EA2&strProduct_ID={4E62F9B4-64AF-4201-88BE-48EB27F5287) Please note I have never tested any of these, just recommending based on your requirements and manufacture specs.

[capz 0]

You do realize that these cameras are not Megapixel cameras but regular analog cameras with a built-in IP server

 

The 1231 is listed on the website as a megapixel ip dome. It has a megapixel lens so I'm assuming it also has a megapixel sensor?

The 1431 is not megapixel but I just want the best solution for my application, megapixel or not. I need cams with low light capability, with minimal noise and integrated IR. Your link was to a discontinued product page I think but thanks for trying to help a newb.

I'm now looking closely at ACTI 3511 and 1511. I also found a vendor to demo Avigilon for me, but I have a sneaking suspicion they're out of my price range. InscapeData was also brought to my attention.

I'll probably go with the first demo I see with low noise in low light setting.

 

that picture looks like the DVR`s compression is too high

 

That's MJPEG at 30 frames/sec. I might be wrong though because I was playing with settings from a remote pc and recently realized the changes were not saving. I'll have to change compression on site.

 

do you leave the lights on all the time?

 

no, the picture you see is the only location with motion sensor lighting. All others will need integrated IR

[capz 0]

insert quote not working right?

[Twilo123 0]

possibly out of budget but you can take a look at mobotix

[Rebco 0]

possibly out of budget but you can take a look at mobotix

 

Great camera option but i think out of his budget.

 

I understand the quality you want but i don't see you doing it with those specs you would need some extra lighting and then to have your boss telling you can't do this and that. Your going to have a hard time explaining to him why you are getting a fuzzy picture