rkm 0 Posted February 27, 2009 I am not at work so I don't remember the specific model # of my camera. However it is a Toshiba. It has crazy low light capabilities. The lens is a Computar 20x so it is 5.6-120mm powered zoom. It is a 4 pin lens. The camera works well during the day. However at night things get out of wack. Fuzzy out of focus etc. I know it did this with our previous Pelco camera that was in the enclosure. It died, so we grabbed one of our high dollar low light cameras and stuck it in there. We were hoping the fuzzy issue at night was just part of the previous camera going bad. However replacing it with the current Toshiba, it has the same issues. Any ideas. I figured it had to be a setting or something. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cglaeser 0 Posted February 27, 2009 It's probably just a simple matter of too little light to focus or function correctly at night. Also, it's common for a 20x lens to have a much smaller aperture at the full zoom, so that would further reduce the light to the sensor. Best, Christopher Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Soundy 1 Posted February 27, 2009 In addition to the low light hampering autofocus, keep in mind that as the aperture opens up in lower light, the depth of field shortens, so things closer and farther than the point you're focused on will go out of focus. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rkm 0 Posted March 2, 2009 Thanks for your answers. I want to clear up the model types in my post. I was way off. The camera is a Panasonic WV-CL924. It specs out 480 lines C/L 570 B/W 0.3 lx (0.03 footcandle) at F1.4 (C/L), 0.02 lx (0.002 footcandle) at F1.4 (B?W) It has multiple sutter speeds from 1/60 to 1/10000 The lense is a PELCO unit all I know about it is that it was 5.6x112 zoom. It has no other distinguished marks on it at all. The original setup was done by a security company. I believe the particular camera, zoom, and PTZ was probably a package that pelco typically uses. Months ago. The original Pelco camera cc3700h-2 stopped working. While it was working it gave us the same picture at night. Fine during the day crap at night. I would like to think this should have worked like we were told it would by the installers some years back. It never did, and never was fixed. Someone told us it was a setting and it would be no issue to fix. So once the camera stopped working a little while ago we put in the very nice Panasonic unit that should have smoked the older pelco. Turns out to have the same issue. Wonder if I could play with some of thye shutter speeds or somethign to get it to work? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rkm 0 Posted March 2, 2009 did some research. Looks like my Pelco unit was never intended to be a Day/Night camera. That is why it Never worked properly. As for the Bad AZZ Panasonic in there now. I am told by panasonic that it is because my Pelco zoom is ment for a 1/3 camera and I have 1/2 on it now. I knew it was different. I didn't think it would have anything to do with the situation. I just figured it would show the circle of the smaller adapter in which it does and that was fine for the time being. Any ideas on this? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Soundy 1 Posted March 2, 2009 did some research. Looks like my Pelco unit was never intended to be a Day/Night camera. That is why it Never worked properly. The 3700 isn't really great for low-light, no. Check out the Pelco CC3751H2 for that. As for the Bad AZZ Panasonic in there now. I am told by panasonic that it is because my Pelco zoom is ment for a 1/3 camera and I have 1/2 on it now. I knew it was different. I didn't think it would have anything to do with the situation. I just figured it would show the circle of the smaller adapter in which it does and that was fine for the time being. Any ideas on this? A zoom of that range probably has a relatively small maximum aperture, which will limit the amount of light it will let through; looking at Pelco's spec pages, it's not entirely clear, but it's probably no better than f/1.8 Try using a shorter-range zoom or even a fixed-focal lens of f/1.2 or better (smaller number = larger opening). f/1.2 allows twice the light of f/1.8. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CCTV_Suppliers 0 Posted March 3, 2009 did some research. Looks like my Pelco unit was never intended to be a Day/Night camera. That is why it Never worked properly. As for the Bad AZZ Panasonic in there now. I am told by panasonic that it is because my Pelco zoom is ment for a 1/3 camera and I have 1/2 on it now. I knew it was different. I didn't think it would have anything to do with the situation. I just figured it would show the circle of the smaller adapter in which it does and that was fine for the time being. Any ideas on this? You have the best Panasonic day/night camera or better yet, the best day/night camera in the market period. This is part of Panasonic's Startlight camera series and the pricing is very close to $1,000... Now, this is a 1/2" camera and you must use 1/2" lens. We tried various lenses in the market, but you can not scarifies the best camera with poor quality lens... or better yet, 1/3" incompatible lens. Is this combination of camera/lens part of Pan Tilt system by any chance? I read above that you are using varifocal lens up to 120mm... and if so, do you control the zoom feature with some sort of equipment? Dependent on the answer above, there are some great lenses out there that will work with this camera perfectly and combination will give you a picture quality that is second to none... and even better... You can see picture at night (in black and white) with very minimal or even no light at all as long as you have reflection of some sort of light available. We use these cameras in military installations, government building and in some large construction complexes... and they work great... but you have to make sure that not only your lens is compatible, but also is a better quality... Afterall, lens determines what you see through the camera and not the other way around. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ak357 0 Posted March 3, 2009 A zoom of that range probably has a relatively small maximum aperture, which will limit the amount of light it will let through; looking at Pelco's spec pages, it's not entirely clear, but it's probably no better than f/1.8 Try using a shorter-range zoom or even a fixed-focal lens of f/1.2 or better (smaller number = larger opening). f/1.2 allows twice the light of f/1.8. I think more then twice Right ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Soundy 1 Posted March 3, 2009 A zoom of that range probably has a relatively small maximum aperture, which will limit the amount of light it will let through; looking at Pelco's spec pages, it's not entirely clear, but it's probably no better than f/1.8 Try using a shorter-range zoom or even a fixed-focal lens of f/1.2 or better (smaller number = larger opening). f/1.2 allows twice the light of f/1.8. I think more then twice Right ? Not PRECISELY twice, but fairly close. Without doing the actual math, consider that f/1.4 is exactly one stop "faster" (ie. twice the light) as f/2.0... and you can extrapolate that f/1.2 will be approximately one stop faster than f/1.8. If it wasn't past my bedtime, I'd do the actual math for you, but at this time of the night, you're on your own Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ak357 0 Posted March 3, 2009 Not PRECISELY twice, but fairly close. Without doing the actual math, consider that f/1.4 is exactly one stop "faster" (ie. twice the light) as f/2.0... and you can extrapolate that f/1.2 will be approximately one stop faster than f/1.8. If it wasn't past my bedtime, I'd do the actual math for you, but at this time of the night, you're on your own It's ok u dont have to do actual math I guess I forget my self that Each full stop lets half as much light in as the last full stop I mix up with half stop value Getting rusty Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Soundy 1 Posted March 3, 2009 f-stops are a rarely-used and even less-understood term when it comes to CCTV, I find... few guys even consider the actual maximum aperture of a lens, or understand the relationship of the f-stop numbers, despite the fact that most lenses list at least the max aperture. Either you use an auto-iris lens and don't think about it, or adjust the manual iris until the picture looks right - I guess there's not really a lot of call for it in CCTV. Coming from 25-year photography background, I guess I just have more experience with the subject Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rkm 0 Posted March 3, 2009 Yes the original equipment seemed to be a Pelco Package PTZ setup. We use the PTZ through our DVR. Being I have this Panasonic camera deployed in supar conditions and it is a temporary solution. I need to come up with a replacemant for it. Could you guys suggest a replacement. Unfortunately money is an issue. I know it don't seem like it with the $1k camera in it now. But, money is very tight around here these days. It obviously needs to be a box type needs to fit in pelco inclosure Day/Night Auto Irus Wide Dynamic? It does get some sun in late afternoon towards sunset 480 Lines at least. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cglaeser 0 Posted March 3, 2009 Coming from 25-year photography background, I guess I just have more experience with the subject I come from a photography background as well, and I'm appalled and frustrated by the lack of useful data in CCTV specifications. One example is the low light lux specifications that do not include the shutter speed. That's like trying to arrange a meeting by agreeing on the date without discussing the location. Here's an unlikely conversation: Customer: What ISO do you plan to use for that photo? Photographer: 400 Customer: ... and what shutter speed to you plan to use? Photographer: What's a shutter speed? These security camera manufacturers need to get their act together. Best, Christopher Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rkm 0 Posted March 3, 2009 Looks like I have it narrowed down to 2 cameras. 1. Pelco CC3751H-2 that was mentioned earlier 2. JVC TK-C925U They both look comparable. JVC showes more Lines of resolution, Pelco does better with low lux. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rebco 0 Posted April 9, 2009 Looks like I have it narrowed down to 2 cameras. 1. Pelco CC3751H-2 that was mentioned earlier 2. JVC TK-C925U They both look comparable. JVC showes more Lines of resolution, Pelco does better with low lux. To be honest I am quite fond of the Pelco CC3751H-2 great camera and picture quality Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kazukiman 0 Posted May 5, 2009 The Pelco CC3751H-2 is a great camera and picture quality is also what anybody could want, If you need cheap IR illums I heard of these IR illums from amazon but they were terrible so don't go messing it all around with cheap stuff Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cctvkey 0 Posted May 5, 2009 you can fix a LED infrared Illuminator Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
