What are some popular low-midrange DVRs to consider???

[muddweiser 0]

Hi everyone,

 

I would like to get some advice/opinions...

 

I am new to the forum... And after reading the last few months of posts this afternoon I would like some help deciding on a DVR system.

 

I do some IT consulting for an apartment complex and the owner called me from a walmart the other day and asked me if I knew anything about CCTV systems... He was going to purchase a unit they had there for $1499.00... I told him I didn't know a whole lot about it but that 1499.00 is alot of money and maybe he should research it first... Anyway long story short he told me to research so here I am

 

The unit he was looking at was made by a company called SWANN... I believe it was a 16ch system but only came with 8 cameras. It was a DVR, had 250GB disk, and the ability to monitor/replay over the internet (pretty neat!)

 

Anyway after browsing the forums here it looks like I could piece together an 8CH system for around $1000...

 

WHAT DVR SYSTEMS SHOULD I BE LOOKING AT?

 

REQUIRED:

 

* decent video playback (maybe 15-30fps? Just nothing choppy)

* Ability to monitor/replay over the internet

* Ability to record on motion and NOT 24hrs a day...

 

 

BRANDS/MODELS?

 

I saw the intellicam JS XLA 8 over at shoreview and it looks adequet, I am just wondering if it is better than the SWANN?

 

What about SPECO Technologies? How would they compare to the Intellicam systems?

 

Are there any other systems I should be looking at?

 

 

Thanks for any help; I really appreciate it and look forward to learning about CCTV!

[alpine0000 0]

I bought an intellicam DVR from Shoreview this past September, and it is pretty sweet. While I know it isnt 'top-of-the-line', it is certainly very nice, and more than adequate for most home and small business applications. It does everything that you listed that you require, and much much more.

 

I'd say go ahead and get it. Plus, you cant beat Mike's (shoreview security) customer service!

 

I am a happy customer.

[scorpion 0]

Having a CCTV system is like racing in the Kentucky Derby for a trophy.

 

You do not go out, and buy a horse. You hire specialist.

 

It maybe those who specialize in the estrous cycle, or in training a horse, or one who rides the horse.

 

I realize that you are not racing thoroughbreds, but if you "just go out, and buy a horse" then what are you getting without a specialist on board?

 

You could be buying a diseased horse, or one that is 12 years old?

 

I respect your decision to "do research", and I applaud you for it. It is very rare that someone does the right thing, and does their research before buying.

 

The reason I am on this soap box is that most people are dropped to their knees when they come to the realization that the CCTV system did not "deliver". We can see the activity of the crime, but beyond that there is nothing that the police can "take away" to arrest someone.

 

Now that is a crying shame. You spend all of this money for "protection", or "report of a crime", and you want the "who done it" video.

 

Most "kits in a box" come with wide angle cameras. There are many reasons for this. One is the lack of training on those who buy/installs these. Wide angle cameras make it easy for a "lick, and stick" system.

 

Wide angle cameras can have cheap lenses, or plastic lenses, or imperfect lenses, and they still work. The more you ask a camera to work the more you have to eliminate these imperfections.

 

If the budget dictates the purchase then by all means buy it. I would rather see you with something then to see you with nothing.

 

Buyer beware!

 

If security is of the essence then hire someone to do it. I mean do your diligence. Do not hire anyone who claims to install CCTV. They could have been installing at a Cable Company the month before.

 

I get a lot of "ex cable intstallers" who want to come in to our company. My first question to them is what does the red wire mean, and what does the black wire mean?

 

Cable installers do not deal in "power". They just pull a cable, check the signal for tolerance, and try to teach you how to use the remote, and they try to get out of there as fast as they can in order to make any money.

 

They get $10.00 bucks for the wire, they get $10.00 bucks for the delivering the cable box, and they have to pay for their own truck, and gas.

 

One hour goes by, and they are in the hole! If they do not know what the Black wire means, and what the Red wires means then I cannot use them.

 

Ex alarm installers, are much more trained for CCTV then Cable installers.

 

Electicians pull wire for a living. How hard can it be to pull camera wires? An electrician can install cameras right? Wait until winter when it gets dark real early, and then you see a rise in service calls for us.

 

We have to go out, and tell people that they have the wrong camera for what they are doing.

 

We have people that come in to our shop all of the time, and ask us all kinds of questions, and then they turn around and leave, and then they go to Sam's Club to buy a system. The sales people get pissed, and they turn to me, and ask " that does not make you mad that they asked you all of these technical questions, and then they leave without buying"?

 

I tell them no. I just get their name, and number. It is a gauranteed sale in 6 months. They will be back. Just watch.

 

Sure enough here come someone ***ing about the cops who left a home, or a business, and the video does not do what it needs to do.

 

I tell them that they can get a system cheaper at Sam's Club, and then I see the frow wrinkle up, and their face get really red!!! LOL!

 

They say no they want a real system that can work!

 

Sure enough they have an "all in one kit", and now they need to upgrade.

 

_________________________________________________________

 

If you buy in "all in one kit" do not get one that uses RJ11, or a phone plug!

 

Make sure that everything uses BNC connectors, or at least RCA plugs.

 

If it has phone connectors then it is a toy! Why are you buying a toy to watch your home, or business?

 

Did you know that there is a distance distortion with wide angle cameras?

 

Did you know that in order to get facial recognition that you need to have that person in at least 25% of the viewing screen? Think of the 6 O Clock news. All head, and shoulders!

 

If the viewing area is dark then how do you light it up?

 

Measure from the area where the camera will be mounted to the area where you will be viewing, and double that distance for your IR distance.

 

____________________________________________________________

 

If you just said "I am going to mount the cameras at the four corners of my building", then you are unqualified to mount them, and have actually improplerly installed them!!!

 

You need to find out right now why that is the wrong place to put them!!!

 

_____________________________________________________________

 

I apologize the rant. I do not mean to get up on a soap box, and preach.

 

I only want to educate those who come to this post from a search engine, or to save someone some hard ache, or to save someone some money.

 

____________________________________________________________

 

You may ask "who put me in charge". I will tell you know one.

You may ask "why are you so smart". I will tell you that I am not. In fact how many cameras do you think I mounted, and then got yelled at by a customer, or I had to refund the money because they are pissed? You live, and you learn! Do you want to redo all of the mistakes that I have made?

 

You may ask "what makes me a camera expert". I will tell you that I am not an expert buy any means. I will tell you that I am an entry level residential installer, and based on experiences, on the job training, and my total screw ups over the years makes my advice more realistic then some "arm chair sales guy sitting in an office" selling you something he has never installed, or had to put his reputation on the line. I have been fooled by the "latest, and greatest" product, and the spec sheet failed to deliver! This is not my fault, but guess who gets the blame? Now I am wary of spec sheets. I order a camera to test, and then I put it in to the environment that it was made for, and then "what you see is what you get"! I have the advantage because I can swap out a camera on the fly, and get a system installed, and get it right the first time.

 

You would be better buying several different cameras, and doing the installation, and then swaping them out till YOU get it right, and take the others back. You may find the camera that you thought was the "one" turns out to be the worst on the list tested! A camera that is great in one environment will really suck in another! There is no rhyme, or reason. OK there is but I will not bore you with technical talk mumbo jumbo!

 

Now you have enough info to get this done the right way.

 

If would like more info then feel free to check out some of these in the "how to section".

 

http://scorpiontheater.com/troubleshooting.aspx

 

I have firm belief that your install will be done correctly, and that it will work to your satisfaction.

 

If you came in to an automotive repair shop because your engine needed to be rebuilt, then how would you feel about the mechanic who was reading the Chilton's Manual of repair? He is a smart guy! I am sure if he researched it, then he could rebuild it!

[muddweiser 0]

So it looks like a +1 for the Intellicam series... I know it isn't "top notch";

 

Scorpion - I couldn't tell from your post if you were suggesting the SWANN "everything in a box" kit, or if you too were advocating a +1 for the Intellicam as well? You mentioned if the budget is there that I should buy it -but didn't go into specific models of a low-midrange DVR? It sounds as though the CAMERA is the most important thing in the setup?

 

I DID get the importance of choosing the right cameras and placement from your post though. That was VERY informative. I have now rethought where I might place the cameras. Instead of trying to capture the ENTIRE room, I will focus the cameras on the upper half of the entry/exit doors - because if someone does come in to rob the place, having a camera zoomed in on the upper 1/2 of the door would surely get a good picture of the intruder (6 0 clock news coverage )

 

 

Can anyone reccomend decent midrange cameras ($100-150/ea). I would like to get IR cameras too if possible.

 

What are the differences between a "dome camera" and a "bullet" camera besides the obvious fact that dome cameras are in a dome and bullet cameras aren't... Do dome cameras HAVE to be mounted on the ceiling? Is it possible to mount them on a wall?

 

THANKS FOR THE VALUABLE INPUT!

[scorpion 0]

Wow! That was very impressive. You must have good technical skills as you have good insight!

 

I mostly install AVTech AVC 760A DVRs. This is bottom rung DVRs, but I love the hell out of them! They are perfect in "my world" of installations.

 

I have never used Intellicams so I would have to defer to others who have.

 

I love Swann products, and I sell alot of the wireless cameras. I cannot speak of their DVRs. They do have a rebranded AVTech AVC 760, and I do like that DVR.

 

You are right! A crappy camera on a $5000.00 DVR is still crap. It would be better to have a good camera on a crappy DVR.

 

Selecting the DVR has nothing to do with brand names, or costs. It has to do with the "job".

 

If the DVR is going to be viewed mostly over the internet then there are ICRealtime DVRs that I may pick for that situation. If cheap is cheap then the AVTech AVC 760 wins hands down for me. There are others, but they may not be in my distribution chain. I am not ignoring those it is just that I do not have the option to buy through my chain.

 

Good choice about relocating the cameras.

 

Here is a real good trick! Take one camera prior to the install, and hook it up to a small TV. Stand on a ladder and simulate where it will be mounted. What you see is what you get! This has educated my clients how a bad position will hurt them, and how a good position will make them happy!

 

Clients will have a preconceived notion about what it will look like regardless of their idea of a mounting point!

 

A bullet camera is an inexpesive way of building a camera.

 

One thing to think about with bullets is the question can it be bumped in to a different position with a broom stick, or other device?

 

If this is an issue then a dome camera may be a better choice. Do not get one that has "smoked dark tint" Clear would be better especially in dark video environments!

 

You can mount cameras anywhere you want. This will be dependant on the camera itself. It may be ceiling mounted, but it may not have a gimble on the inside to allow it to be wall mounted, and view to the side.

 

If you top mount a camera that is designed for ceiling mount then your video might be upside down. You would have to find out what camera you have, and where you are going to put it. The more expensive the camera the more likely that it will be better gimbled.

 

Vari focal is the better choice of any camera. This is a great way to "dial" in a camera no matter where it is mounted.

 

Here is a style that can be "gimbled" into any direction no matter where it is mounted! It can be top mounted, ceiling mounted, or wall mounted, and the camera can be rotated to get the right "horizon".

 

http://www.avssys.net/?s=product&sub=camera&cat=outdoor&p=vnd49ir

[CCTV_Suppliers 0]

Few realistic options...

 

Sanyo, CBC, Samsung and few others. What I will suggest to look into these manufacturers and the DVRs that are embedded and ability to add as much hard drive as you can or available. Some of the models from them come with no hard drive, thus the cost is much lower.. This way you can add storage based on what your customer needs.. Besides, the ease of use, the three years warranty and support are always available from respective manufacturers and online... Pricing is decent and performance is well, compared to most, can be considered acceptable. All come with internet ready feature, playback, burn video on various medias, etc...

 

If you do have anything specific, I can give you some models to compare...