Installed new system - not impressed with results- help!

[s60_alex 0]

Dear all,

 

 

This is my first post here - apologies if I'm posting in the wrong area.

 

We have a system with 2 camera overlooking an entrance. I have recently upgraded the DVR & display and the 2 cameras - the power supply and BNC cabling are the same.

 

The DVR is specified as having a live resolution of 1280x1024 and a recording resolution of 640*480 at 12.5 FPS

 

and the cameras are specified as 560 lines.

 

 

I am not very impressed with the quality, either viewing on live or through recording - there is a lot of 'combing' when images are moving and number plates are difficult to read.

 

I've attached example screenshots and would very much welcome your comments.

 

 

Many thanks,

 

 

Alex

[zmxtech 0]

your pics have interlacing

 

try dropping the res

[Scruit 0]

That's a full D1 (or 4CIF) image that is interlaced. You'll get that 'combing' effect (love that term, gonna use it from now!) because the image is made up from two individual frames that were taken a split-second apart. Frame 1 makes up lines 1,3,5 etc, and Frame 2 makes up lines 2,4,6 etc.

 

You could try dropping that camera to CIF and see if you still have enough resolution for a plate capture (try zooming in closer to offset the loss of resolution)

 

Or you can try to slow the cars down so they don't move so quickly through the shot.

 

Or you could try to move the camera to a place where the number plate is move more directly towards or away from the camera to reduce the shifting from side-to-side. The downward angle and car going through shot at an angle is going to make any capture difficult, and a Full D1 interlaced image can't do it, as evidenced above.

[Sawbones 0]

The interlacing artifact on those images is pretty striking.

 

Wouldn't simply changing to a progressive scan camera take care of that combing effect?

 

************** Edit ******************

 

What sort of cameras do you have on that system?

[Scruit 0]

BTW, I love the euro plates! Can read them from a mile away! Even at full d1 you gave to be zoomed in to pretty much the width of the car to be assured of a good read of a US plate just because the text is so skinny. (speed and lighting are separate issues)

 

 

A primer on progressive scan vs interlaced: http://www.axis.com/products/video/camera/progressive_scan.htm

 

OP: Is this an IP cam/NVR or analog cam/DVR?

[s60_alex 0]

Hi guys,

 

 

Many thanks for the replies - it is very much appreciated!

 

The camera in question is (I can't post links as I'm too new) called the Killercam - if you Google Killercam CCTV, it is the first link.

 

The DVR is located on the same site, with a similar name - Killer HD4.

 

I am not actually sure how I can reduce the resolution - I can reduce the recording quality, but the live resolution is fixed, I believe?

 

 

The car in the videos is me, travelling at less than 5mph - I had come to a dead stop at the gates.

 

I believe the site I purchased them from is quite reputable, I purchased what I thought was good kit (I've since read a lot on this forum....) and am just wondering if there are some simple settings I've missed.

 

I can't see much to adjust on the DVR, but the cameras have quite a few settings - I've left everything as default so far (bar the zoom and focus).

 

 

Many thanks again,

 

Alex

[Scruit 0]

Hi guys,

 

 

Many thanks for the replies - it is very much appreciated!

 

The camera in question is (I can't post links as I'm too new) called the Killercam - if you Google Killercam CCTV, it is the first link.

 

The DVR is located on the same site, with a similar name - Killer HD4.

 

I am not actually sure how I can reduce the resolution - I can reduce the recording quality, but the live resolution is fixed, I believe?

 

 

The car in the videos is me, travelling at less than 5mph - I had come to a dead stop at the gates.

 

I believe the site I purchased them from is quite reputable, I purchased what I thought was good kit (I've since read a lot on this forum....) and am just wondering if there are some simple settings I've missed.

 

I can't see much to adjust on the DVR, but the cameras have quite a few settings - I've left everything as default so far (bar the zoom and focus).

 

 

Many thanks again,

 

Alex

 

It's not that it's bad kit necessarily, it's just that capturing number plates is a difficult task to do well. You can get progressive scan analog cameras but they're tough to find. The DVR should have settings to change the image recording quality between CIF and D1, but the cheaper DVRs only have this as a system-wide setting, whereas the better systems let you set D1/CIF per camera.

 

Dropping that one channel to CIF will stop the interlacing problems instantly, but then you're running at half resolution. If your camera is close enough to the target then CIF may work out for you. If you have to drop the entire DVR to CIF then it's not worth it.

 

Also bear in mind that because capturing number plates is such a difficult thing to do well, the cameras used for the task are generally specialised and expensive. My LPR setup uses a BW camera with IR filter, IR emitter and auto-iris ir-friendly lens to help deal with dazzling headlights etc. That one camera cost me over $500.

[Sawbones 0]

There's a variable lens on that camera. Can you zoom in with the lens, then reduce your resolution on the DVR? That would probably take care of your interlacing problem.

[scorpion 0]

I would think it would be better to get the plate before the gate opens. I am surprised that you have this much of a problem at 5 MPH. Most people are going to be going faster then 5 MPH once they get past the gate, and I think that would make you LPR that much harder.

 

Can the camera be moved to get a more dead on shot, rather then a 45 degree offset shot?

 

For an HOA that had an S shaped road, and bad camera positioning I had them try a Speed Bump Camera. It allowed the camera to be closer to the car, and it gave a dead on shot to the plate.

 

This worked for them, and now they are ordering a second one for the out going side.

 

http://scorpiontheater.com/speedbumpcamera.aspx

[Sawbones 0]

That's a nifty setup, scorpion.

[scorpion 0]

I cannot take credit for the "Christmas Tree" of cameras. Someone else did this install.

 

The problem with that particular setup was the fact that the road was an s shape, and the gate was right in the middle of the S.

 

The cameras are pointed at a 45 degree angle to the plates, and the road.

 

This setup suffered every failure that you can think of to include the same ones in this post, and more.

 

Correcting the angle of the cameras to give them a straight on shot had the cars to far away for the lense installed.

 

They also had the interlacing problems, and that was magnified with the 45 degree angle which is the same as the photo in this thread.

 

Since the cameras are located at the gate then the cars are actually speeding up, and moving away from the gate making it that much harder to read the plates.

 

The picture in this thread is real high, and pointed down so technically you have two different angles working on the camera verses the plate. If the camera was brought down to camera level then this would help the poster, and if the camera were more on line with the axis of the plate then this would help.

 

 

The HOA had two crashes where the gates, and the mechanism had to be replaced. After spending over $20,000 in repairs, and no identification of who had done the damage then it became a new project for the HOA to resolve the camera issues.

 

I was brought on board as an advisor, and provided the ICRealtime Speed Bump Camera solution.

 

I took a very dangerous approach, and gave the HOA 14 days to evaluate the Bump with a NO question asked return policy. I was sweating those 14 days afraid that I might lose a sale. They were so happy with it that they ordered a second one for the outgoing side.

 

I had never ordered one of these Speed Bump Cameras so it was a learning situation for me as well.

 

I knew I had a good thing when the HOA guy sends me a picture in an email where all of his house lights are off, and the only light source is the license plate light, and the plate is 100% readable!

 

Note: He did most of the testing in his driveway. With the return policy we did not want to mark the bump with tire marks until after they were sure that they wanted it. We did some testing at the gate, and it was amazing how much the cars would slow down! This was an amazement to the HOA as they have been trying to come to a resolution about this for a long time. They refused to put in speed bumps themselves.

 

At first they did not like the idea of a bump until they understood that the bump is narrow, and that you just simply drive over it without ever having the wheels come in contact with the bump.

 

Motorcycles would just aim their bikes around the bump.

 

We are doing a camera bump incoming, and outgoing, and we have a non camera bump in the middle to get the cars to line up with the bumps.

Edited April 13, 2009 by Guest

[scorpion 0]

This came up on my USA search as number one!

 

http://home.att.net/~dittydoo/killercam.htm

[s60_alex 0]

Dear all,

 

 

Thanks again for the replies and interesting conversation.

 

I am unfortunately limited in that these cameras are required to capture both a general picture of the entrance-way and ideally still catch vehicles travelling through.

 

I am also limited by the fact that these cameras are a straight swap (with existing cabling) for an old unit - there is no real option to either move the cameras more in line with the road or down nearer to the level of the vehicles.

 

I'll play around with zoom levels and resolution and will make sure to report back with any improvement I can muster.

 

 

Best wishes,

 

Alex

[ninjaPixel 0]

The files produced by your DVR are interlaced.

You can get a much better quality video by de-interlacing.

I'm on a Mac and use the 'MPEG streamclip' (freeware available from the Apple site), I'm sure that there is plenty of equivalent stuff for Windows too.

 

If using MPEG streamclip - open the and then 'convert to MPEG4'.

Choose the following options:

"Frame Blending" (not essential)

"Deinterlace Video"

[Squiffy 0]

Is there not a DVR option to record deinterlaced?

 

As the previous poster mentions, you can do this with post-processing also, for Windows there's a free program called VirtualDub for AVI files (or VirtualDubMod for mpg) with lots of filtering options. Some imaging programs will also deinterlace still images.

[Jamac 0]

As Squiffy has already said, if there is no option for de-interlace, virtualdub will be the easiest (and cheapest) way to clean up the files but at the distance from camera to plate results may still fall short, as previous posters have mentioned, plate capture can be difficult. It's normally easier to try to ensure plate itself takes up a larger area of the recorded frame - although scorpions speed bump camera solution is great - first time I've seen that application in such a simplified form.

I've recently used one of the latest Samsung Electronics DVRs and camera setups for plate capture and the results were among the best I've seen - but the customer had a large budget as the equipment was not particularly cheap.