IP video with sound for classroom

[jimmyNJ 0]

I have an application for small classrooms to record student-teacher interaction and archive them for parent-teacher conferences. We're looking at an IP camera system but we also need to record sound. I'm told the microphone in an axis camera or acti won't pick up all of the sound. What would be a a good solution with an external mic fed into the camera mic jack?

 

If I have to go with active microphones, how would you power them? locally or via a central amp.

 

Has anyone had a similar application for sound+video? What did you do?

 

I am looking 15 cams. Each room is fairly small but I want to be sure that we can provide quality sound with the video.

[ak357 0]

I have an application for small classrooms to record student-teacher interaction and archive them for parent-teacher conferences. We're looking at an IP camera system but we also need to record sound. I'm told the microphone in an axis camera or acti won't pick up all of the sound. What would be a a good solution with an external mic fed into the camera mic jack?

 

If I have to go with active microphones, how would you power them? locally or via a central amp.

 

Has anyone had a similar application for sound+video? What did you do?

 

I am looking 15 cams. Each room is fairly small but I want to be sure that we can provide quality sound with the video.

 

I have small Plug and Play IP cams with sound

one of the model is Pan Tilt Dome

do not need any network set up

comes with 16 ch soft

interested sent me PM

Thanks

[thewireguys 3]

If your going to use Axis I would recommend:

 

211A

216

P3301

[griffonsystems 0]

call mobotix and have chris have someone come out to you with their ip 3 megapixel camera to test - it has 2 way audio and the mic and speaker are both very good

 

pg

[CCTVguru1 0]

If I have to go with active microphones, how would you power them? locally or via a central amp.

 

Has anyone had a similar application for sound+video? What did you do?

 

I am looking 15 cams. Each room is fairly small but I want to be sure that we can provide quality sound with the video.

 

I have done thisa couple of times in a medical shool in a University.

I used the IndigoVision products, with an external microphone. high quality ceiling mount mic and local pre-amp.

 

Works really well. Full PTZ from the lecture room, which was 50Km from the medical training room.

 

Here is a similar (not mine) that has had a press release done.

http://www.indigovision.com/business_education_medical.php

[jeromephone 6]

we have use the loure sytem with analog cameras and a geovison you can get intface for the dvr Nvr from them. The main problem we have had is the ideal point for the camera and the ideal place for the microphone are not always the same

[Erron S. 0]

Have a look at these guys. www.etsnm.com

We carry these guys and they are very similiar to the Louroe product, but way less expensive. We couple these with a good IQ Eye megpixel camer and our 2 way audio recording dvr and we're in biz. Not only can you record the audio taking place, but also have a 2 way conversation over IP. Really neat stuff for international lectures and what not.

[CCTVguru1 0]

Have a look at these guys. www.etsnm.com

We carry these guys and they are very similiar to the Louroe product, but way less expensive. We couple these with a good IQ Eye megpixel camer and our 2 way audio recording dvr and we're in biz. Not only can you record the audio taking place, but also have a 2 way conversation over IP. Really neat stuff for international lectures and what not.

 

Yes but at what bandwidth?

 

IndigoVision does all this and requires no servers at all in the system.

We would require 32Kbps for the audio and dependent on image quality, 128Kbps for the 30ips CIF video.

We actually guarantee the 30ips regardless of what else is going on in the codec. No dropped frames or image tearing.

I did not realize how much this meant until recently doing a shoot out against DVtel (OEM encoder) where their image could not be maintained while controlling a PTZ for more than 3 seconds. Even though they used 10Mbps and we used 4Mbps.

[Erron S. 0]

CIF video?(for those that don't know, that's a postage stamp size of image, 352x288 pixels)

LOL, at that size just buy a webcam from Tiger Direct for 50 bucks and use Logitechs software.

[CCTVguru1 0]

CIF video?(for those that don't know, that's a postage stamp size of image, 352x288 pixels)

LOL, at that size just buy a webcam from Tiger Direct for 50 bucks and use Logitechs software.

 

You show a missunderstanding of video.

Did you know not all DVD's are D1. many are CIF.

A full screen CIF image is almost as clean as a 4CIF image when viewed at 756x582 resolution. This is for Indigo anyway. I know many others will not be the same case

 

It is only when you electronic zoom that there is a real difference to 4CIF.

 

If you wanted to stream at 4CIF 30ips, i would start at 512Kbps.

We can record at 4CIF on site and stream live at CIF, giving the best of both ends.

[Erron S. 0]

Then post a CIF image.

The simple fact is that a CIF image is 101,376 pixels, period. Sure, you can make them bigger or smaller, but you can't fill in the gaps. A full screen CIF image looks terrible. Change the res on your monitor right now and tell me you like it.

 

Show me a DVD that is recorded in CIF too.

[CCTVguru1 0]

Then post a CIF image.

The simple fact is that a CIF image is 101,376 pixels, period. Sure, you can make them bigger or smaller, but you can't fill in the gaps. A full screen CIF image looks terrible. Change the res on your monitor right now and tell me you like it.

 

Show me a DVD that is recorded in CIF too.

 

OK My mistake, that was VCD.

However A DVD is always 720x480 (unless you live in PAL land).

 

As stated here, pixel count does not state resolution.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image_resolution

You can have a megapixel camera with worse resouldion than my CIF cameras.

 

 

I will post a clip when I find a good CIF/4CIF of the same scene from my product.

Seeing is believing

[Erron S. 0]

Then post a CIF image.

The simple fact is that a CIF image is 101,376 pixels, period. Sure, you can make them bigger or smaller, but you can't fill in the gaps. A full screen CIF image looks terrible. Change the res on your monitor right now and tell me you like it.

 

Show me a DVD that is recorded in CIF too.

 

OK My mistake, that was VCD.

However A DVD is always 720x480 (unless you live in PAL land).

 

As stated here, pixel count does not state resolution.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image_resolution

You can have a megapixel camera with worse resouldion than my CIF cameras.

 

 

I will post a clip when I find a good CIF/4CIF of the same scene from my product.

Seeing is believing

 

Agreed. Looking forward to the video.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Resolution_illustration.png

[ak357 0]

CIF video?(for those that don't know, that's a postage stamp size of image, 352x288 pixels)

LOL, at that size just buy a webcam from Tiger Direct for 50 bucks and use Logitechs software.

 

If you wanted to stream at 4CIF 30ips, i would start at 512Kbps.

We can record at 4CIF on site and stream live at CIF, giving the best of both ends.

 

I would love to see 4CIF Image at ~ 2.13 KB which has good quaility

( 512 Kbps : 30 : 8 )

i hope my math is not wrong

[CCTVguru1 0]

[

 

I would love to see 4CIF Image at ~ 2.13 KB which has good quaility

( 512 Kbps : 30 : 8 )

i hope my math is not wrong

 

it is wrong.

MPEG4 and H.264 are variable bit rates dependant on scene. I can actually produce a HD image of 720p at 320Kbps average.

 

You can not measue these as a KB file size. Any product that does is not implementing the protocols properly and is only sending I frames, which is no different to sending JPG's 30X a second.

[ak357 0]

[

 

I would love to see 4CIF Image at ~ 2.13 KB which has good quaility

( 512 Kbps : 30 : 8 )

i hope my math is not wrong

 

it is wrong.

MPEG4 and H.264 are variable bit rates dependant on scene. I can actually produce a HD image of 720p at 320Kbps average.

---------------------------------------------------------------

At what frame rate ?

some system use VBR some CBR right ?

I can easily believe 720P at about 3.5-4.0 Mbps

30 frames

because I have such product

but 720P at 320Kbps and 30 frames I have problem

plz explain

THX

---------------------------------------------------------

 

 

You can not measue these as a KB file size. Any product that does is not implementing the protocols properly and is only sending I frames, which is no different to sending JPG's 30X a second.

[shaggybaxter 0]

[

 

I would love to see 4CIF Image at ~ 2.13 KB which has good quaility

( 512 Kbps : 30 : 8 )

i hope my math is not wrong

 

it is wrong.

MPEG4 and H.264 are variable bit rates dependant on scene. I can actually produce a HD image of 720p at 320Kbps average.

---------------------------------------------------------------

At what frame rate ?

some system use VBR some CBR right ?

I can easily believe 720P at about 3.5-4.0 Mbps

30 frames

because I have such product

but 720P at 320Kbps and 30 frames I have problem

plz explain

THX

---------------------------------------------------------

 

 

You can not measue these as a KB file size. Any product that does is not implementing the protocols properly and is only sending I frames, which is no different to sending JPG's 30X a second.

 

 

 

Hi guys,

This is pretty simple, anyone can make video small, you just lose quality.

Do the sums:

I set up the following:

1 x I-Frame ps at 4Cif at Mpeg4 on the test bench. (4cif = 704x576)

I varied the compression ratio of 2 x vendors encoders from max to min.

Set the system to CBR.

I got an average of:

- 20KB per frame with max compression.

- 80KB per frame with least compression.

 

Video looked like crap at 20KB frame size. Looked pretty good at 40KB.

 

If I run at 30fps at 20KB I frames, (1 x IFrame and 24 P Frames a second), I get a measured bandwidth of 1.69Mbps. This is using a I/P Frame ratio of 250% bias for I frames, as per standard.

 

Using I Frames at 80KB, it measures 6.9MBps (using Ixia).

 

320kbps at 30fps means each frame is (320kbps/8/30=KB).

This means you are running an average frame size of 13KB. For 720P?

How do you guys do it, cos I sure can't!

[CCTVguru1 0]

OK,

For all the skeptics out there I have attached a bandwidth profile of the 9000 product based on H.264.

This shows the difference of 4 products readily available in the market.

 

It is well documented that IndigoVision uses 50% less bandwidth than most other products for the same RESOLUTION. Not I am not referring to PIXELS. Actual visual quality of the image as a pixel count says nothing!

 

The 720p HD camera is based on the same compression as the 9000 series.

 

I have also put a clip of the 720p HD camera up at http://senduit.com/c3bf63 for 1 week only.

It is converted to MPEG4 as the native H.264 is not as easily viewed with out downloading viewers.

This clip according to my software is averaging 650Kbps at 720p resolution.

Edited April 14, 2009 by Guest

[shaggybaxter 0]

OK,

For all the skeptics out there I have attached a bandwidth profile of the 9000 product based on H.264.

This shows the difference of 4 products readily available in the market.

 

It is well documented that IndigoVision uses 50% less bandwidth than most other products for the same RESOLUTION. Not I am not referring to PIXELS. Actual visual quality of the image as a pixel count says nothing!

 

The 720p HD camera is based on the same compression as the 9000 series.

 

I have also put a clip of the 720p HD camera up at

It is converted to MPEG4 as the native H.264 is not as easily viewed with out downloading viewers.

This clip according to my software is averaging 650Mbps at 720p resolution.

 

 

Hi CCTV-guru,

With thanks, but what is this? 30fps? or 1fps?

Clarity please, numbers can get awfully confusing. Your are even confusing yourself! (....my software is averaging 650Mbps at 720p.....)

 

I would beg to differ, pixels mean a lot. If I have to send a digital signal only sampling 720 lines instead of 1500 lines, obviously this is more data.

Look at the difference between HD and SD TV when we encode it, same argument.

Comments?

[CCTVguru1 0]

apart from the top line others are 25ips 4CIF.

As far as pixels go, yes they can limit your best resolution but for most codecs out there they never produce the full capability of the pixels in measurable resolution.

[kensplace 0]

What country would this be for? If it is in the UK, you may need to take into consideration the ICO (information commissioners office) recent decision regarding cctv in schools. If your in the UK shout up and I can post a little more info (not that it makes much sense, its a crazy decision I think...)

[Erron S. 0]

I still just want to see your best quality 4 Cif video like you said to me on page 1. Let's see it, toss it out here for everyone to check out. You posted a 720p video?

[ak357 0]

I still just want to see your best quality 4 Cif video like you said to me on page 1. Let's see it, toss it out here for everyone to check out. You posted a 720p video?

 

hmm his video the way i can see has average frame size of 6.4KB

[Erron S. 0]

I still just want to see your best quality 4 Cif video like you said to me on page 1. Let's see it, toss it out here for everyone to check out. You posted a 720p video?

 

hmm his video the way i can see has average frame size of 6.4KB

 

Right, he touted a CIF video, then said 4CIF, then posted a megapixel video. This thread has wandered off on a tangent.

[CCTVguru1 0]

guys,

My HD is lower bandwidth than many others 4CIF. Have I not shown this and the resolution speaks for its self.

My 4CIF is less than HD and CIF is less again.

 

What more do I need to Do to convince you?