So much to learn, so little time.

[Metrico 0]

Greetings everyone! I hope I'm posting this in the right place. I manage IT for a small business, and we are about to move our office. One of the VPs asked me to look into a CCTV solution for the new office. While contracting out the job is an option, I would prefer to have a system that I can familiarize myself with and know all of the details first hand. Unfortunately, the problem I run into is the vast variety of options out there, so I'm getting a bit overwhelmed. Here's some basic info to start with:

 

I'd like the system to be fully IP based. The new office is EXTREMELY wired up with cat5e and relocating a few outlets for cameras is much simpler and cost effective than running new cable. Also, this gives the option of using a PoE switch to power the cameras, further simplifying the installation.

 

I'd like the system to be PC based. I'm an IT person, so I always have scalability in mind. From what I have seen, PC systems are the way to go for that. Also, I would rather work with standardized equipment that I am familiar with instead of a proprietary closed box.

 

Here's what would be needed in the way of coverage:

3-4 entrances, with only one of those not being surrounded by windows. 2-4 more cameras will be used for watching specific rooms within the office. The lighting is your standard florescent office lighting. Day & night coverage is desired. Facial recognition is of course desired. No point in a camera system if we don't know who it is moving around on camera. I understand about the need for different lenses based on viewable area and distance.

 

Some questions I have that I have not been able to find info on my own about: Does an IP PC system need a specialized card to process data, or will a standard graphics card handle the processing? Or, does the processing never hit the graphics card and is handled by the CPU? Part of that question also entails if a card is needed at all for an all IP system. Is a beefed up network card necessary to handle the multiple data sources?

 

Based on the above, I'm looking for suggestions on cameras & a nvr solution. The nvr would need to be scalable beyond an initial 8 cameras. The ceiling is a drop ceiling, but wall mounting is not an issue if needed. The tenative budget is <$10,000. There is no "spend it or lose it" mentality here, I just need to get the job done.

 

That's all I can think of right now, any input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

[Soundy 1]

I'd like the system to be fully IP based. The new office is EXTREMELY wired up with cat5e and relocating a few outlets for cameras is much simpler and cost effective than running new cable. Also, this gives the option of using a PoE switch to power the cameras, further simplifying the installation.

 

Well, you have a pretty good stock of options out there for cameras, from basic VGA-res consumer-grade cameras to $10,000 uber-cams I've set up a few sites now using PoE switches, and it sure is a dream to not have to run separate power. My one suggestion would be to make sure you have at least one gigabit port for your PC; most cameras have only 10/100 interfaces, and will actually work fine even at 10Mbit with lower framerates, but the more you have, the more load will be concentrated on the PC's connection.

 

If you have plenty of dedicated wiring, I'd also recommend keeping your cameras and NVR on their own network... in part to keep the traffic off the rest of your LAN, and in part just for keeping everything nicely organized.

 

I'd like the system to be PC based. I'm an IT person, so I always have scalability in mind. From what I have seen, PC systems are the way to go for that. Also, I would rather work with standardized equipment that I am familiar with instead of a proprietary closed box.

 

There are a number of IP-only NVR systems out there... the one I'm most familiar with is Video Insight. It also has the option to add an analog component (with the appropriate hardware) so it does allow that avenue of expandability... just in case you should need to go there in the future.

 

Personally, I really like the Vigil systems from 3xLogic/CAMACC, but I'm not sure if they actually have an NVR-only system yet; all the ones I've dealt with have been hybrids and the software has required that the capture hardware be present. Hopefully they're working to get past this.

 

Here's what would be needed in the way of coverage:

3-4 entrances, with only one of those not being surrounded by windows. 2-4 more cameras will be used for watching specific rooms within the office. The lighting is your standard florescent office lighting. Day & night coverage is desired. Facial recognition is of course desired. No point in a camera system if we don't know who it is moving around on camera. I understand about the need for different lenses based on viewable area and distance.

 

The one drawback to IP is that it's still somewhat more expensive than analog. The upside to that is that if you're going all-IP, you save a fair bit on the capture hardware... and depending on the circumstances, a single megapixel camera can often give you the equivalent coverage of two or three analog cameras (meaning, you can use a wider lens on one camera to cover as much area as multiple IP cams with tighter views, and still get the same detail).

 

The other catch is that IP cams have a bit of catching up to do for low-light, and most (at least of those I've used) don't support auto-iris lenses yet, which can be an issue if there are wide variations in the lighting.

 

Some questions I have that I have not been able to find info on my own about: Does an IP PC system need a specialized card to process data, or will a standard graphics card handle the processing? Or, does the processing never hit the graphics card and is handled by the CPU?

 

The video is all digitized in-camera; the recorder needs only to store the incoming data stream (and in some cases, re-process/re-compress it). No specialized hardware is required, nor is a special video card. Most systems' onboard VGA should be more than sufficient for display; 3D isn't necessary.

 

Part of that question also entails if a card is needed at all for an all IP system. Is a beefed up network card necessary to handle the multiple data sources?

 

Nope, although if you're using more than just a few cameras, I'd recommend a gigabit port (see above regarding the switch). Again, pretty much any modern machine should have that on-board as well.

 

Based on the above, I'm looking for suggestions on cameras & a nvr solution. The nvr would need to be scalable beyond an initial 8 cameras. The ceiling is a drop ceiling, but wall mounting is not an issue if needed. The tenative budget is <$10,000. There is no "spend it or lose it" mentality here, I just need to get the job done.

 

That's all I can think of right now, any input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

 

Check out Video Insight's "IP Server" offering. Again, if the need ever arises, the necessary hardware and software can be easily added to provide analog support as well. I believe the license is purchased on a per-camera basis, so anytime you need to add another camera, you just extend the license (you'd have to talk to them about pricing though). I'd love to recommend a look at Vigil as well, but again, I don't know if they make a "pure" NVR system yet (would be worth looking into).

 

For cameras, we've been really happy with the IQEye cameras - we've mostly used the IQ511 "box" cameras, and their A11 "Alliance series" dome cameras. The 511s can be bought in a kit that includes a 4-12mm lens and can use any manual-iris C- or CS-mount CCTV lenses; the domes I've used come with a 2.5-7mm lens, but I believe there are other lens options available as well. All their cameras support PoE, and start at 1.3MP and go up from there.

[zmxtech 0]

save a lot of pain and set the network up on another switch or a least a VLAN for the security video segment.

 

z

[Metrico 0]

Lots of useful info there, thanks! I'll definitely have the cameras going to their own switch and subnet not touching the main network. I am planning on having a monitoring system being connected to both networks so that it can be remotely accessed instead of the cameras. Is it necessary to have the nvr be dedicated entirely to recording, or can it handle monitoring & remote access? I already had figured on a system and switch that have gigabit ports. We currently make use of about 80 cat5 lines in our current office, the new office is prewired with close to 300. Every room has a minimum of 2 lines, and many have more. There's also 30 lines up on the patch panel that go up in the ceiling but aren't terminated at any outlet. This was some mortgage company that sprang up last year, lasted a month in the office, and then vacated. Left behind a lot of almost new stuff that we get to use

[Soundy 1]

The NVR should have no problem handing monitoring and remote access along with recording.

 

What I've done in similar situations, was to add a second NIC to the DVR, and plug that into the in-house LAN/VPN, so it could accessed from head office. In one site, however, I just patched the cameras' switch into their network and assigned the DVR's NIC an alternate IP on their LAN, and they can remote into it that way... so far, no problem doing it that way.

 

In fact, in two of these sites, I've used an 8-port LinkSys switch that has eight 10/100 PoE ports, and two GBe ports - I connect the DVR to one of the GBes, and on the other, an Enhance R8 or T8 RAID-5 array for extra storage (8x1TB@RAID5=6.5TB, yummy!)

 

BTW, I've found out that the Vigil system CAN operate as a pure NVR with no capture hardware needed - they cost a little more than a Geo or Insight, but IMHO they're well worth taking a look at. The latest versions have (or will soon) Video Analytics built in, and the whole interface is very clean and polished. Their remote client is outstanding, especially if you have multiple sites to monitor. The only drawback vs. the VideoInsight is lack of a web viewer - they provide some dev tools to roll your own, but Vigil doesn't come ready for web-based viewing out-of-the-box like VI does.

[Metrico 0]

I've seen Axis come up a decent bit in my searches, and they do have some models that support auto-iris. Given that up to 3 cameras will be facing windows, that's something I'd like to incorporate. How are their cameras and management software? If I were to use them, I believe I would be going with 3 211Ms, 2 209MFDs, and 2 209FDs. The megapixel cameras would be recording at 1280x1024, and the others will be at 640x480. I'm not set on these by any means, I just don't know every option out there yet.

[Sawbones 0]

I'm in the same boat as you, Metrico... except my system is in my home rather than at the office. Had a gigabit backbone already in place (what can I say? I'm a geek), and used a couple of Axis 241q camera servers to digitize a set of high-quality analog cameras. The cameras run on a separate gigabit switch, with a 100mb POE switch attached.

 

I set up a dual-core, dual-gig-NIC SFF Lenovo box for my NVR, and demo'd Video Insight software and Exacqvision... and also considered Luxriot. The problem with Luxriot is that there is no demo available beyond a single-camera version, and they didn't support all of my hardware (an Acti megapixel camera in particular).

 

Video Insight is good-to-go... VERY nice software. It runs stable under XP Pro, and is very user friendly. They have a click-and-drag--to-zoom feature that's particularly nice. Very intuitive to use.

 

I also demo'd (and am still demo'ing) the Exacqvision software, and it's also very good. The configuration options are extensive, and it also runs under Linux (a nice option). The CPU load is low, and it runs a built-in webserver that allows you to access the video streams via web browser without a specific client software package (even allows me to get pictures on my mobile phone). However, beware of utilizing the web-browser too extensively; it doubles your CPU load compared to simply using the Exacqvision client software. The Exacqvision-branded client software barely produces a blip on the load graphs.

 

VST_Man (a member here) can hook you up on the Video Insight software (he was very helpful to me), and you can contact Exacqvision directly for a demo. I'm very pleased with both software suites.

[Metrico 0]

Here's what I've come up with for a complete system, I would love any input. I also would appreciate suggestions on alternate cameras.

 

Cameras:

3 x Axis 211M, 24/7 @1280x1024, 6fps, mpeg4

1 x Axis 209MFD, on event, 10% @1280x1024 30fps, mpeg4

1 x Axis 209MFD, 24/7 @1280x1024, 6fps, mpeg4

2 x Axis 209FD, 24/7 @640x480, 6fps, mpeg4

 

The 24/7 megapixel cameras are watching entrances, 3 with windows, the 209MFD without. The on event 209MFD is motion activated in a particular storage room that does not have regular access but will hold critical equipment. The 2 209FDs will watch general access in two rooms. Lower res here since the hi res entrance cameras should be able to establish facial recognition. The 640x480 should still maintain decent resolution.

 

Software:

Video Insight IP server or Axis Camera Station (if camera station is with the $500 extra)

Windows Server 2k3

 

DVR System:

Case: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811152050

Motherboard (server oriented, 2x1gb LAN: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813182105

CPU: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117166

RAM, 2x2gb (verified mobo compatible): http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820134193&Tpk=KVR667D2N5K2%2f4G

Hard drives, x8 in RAID 5: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136313

Blu Ray Burner: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827129037

Vid Card: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161252

 

19" 1280x1024 Monitor adds another $160

 

To summarize if you don't want to click through links:

Supermicro 3U rackmount case along with a supermicro mobo that has 2 gigabit lan connections. Quad core Xeon processor, 4 gigs of ram. 8TB worth of WD RE3 hard drives in RAID 5, blu ray burner, and a basic 512mb vid card.

 

Estimated cost for all of this is ~$8200. I know some things like storage can be scaled back on, and there may be similar cameras out there that do the same for cheaper as the Axis ones, I'm not sure. I wouldn't mind bringing the cost down some, but even with this build I'm coming in under the initial target budget. Thoughts?