Reasonably priced, low light, outdoor, preferably no IR, cam

[tegatdavis 0]

Let me start off by commending everyone on this forum for educating all of us newbies. For weeks it's like I've been out in the wilderness trying to make heads or tails out of security camera claims by manufacturer's and internet retailer's. I've seen much discussion on this forum about low light but I still have a question regarding my particular situation which I need some help with.

 

I'm looking to install 6 - 8 outdoor cameras around my home. I'm thinking a couple domes (for under a soffit) and bullets for the walls. I'm looking for reasonably priced cameras (~$150 for bullets and a little more for the domes) which can see well in low light. I currently have 2x100W flood lights on 3 sides of the house and a light fixture with 3x60W lights in the front so IR is not required (actually I would prefer not to have IR LEDs). The distance from each camera to my property line is about 50 - 60 feet and that is where I would like to see. Just to give a description in layman's terms of the quality I'm looking for, when my outdoor lights are on, the cameras should be able to see clearly what I would be able to see with my naked eye (or possibly better). I've looked at some day/night cams like the Nuvico CB-HD2N-L and CB-D3N-L but I'm not quite sure how well they will do in this situation (the specs on these are pretty similar except that the HD2N has 480TVL and the D3N has 380). I'm willing to consider a black and white camera but there doesn't seem to be much of those for sale. I mostly want to identify people I know.

 

I would prefer to use a manufacture who has a reputation of standing behind their warranty. Hopefully you guys have some suggestions for me on good cameras for this application preferably based on experience rather that published specs.

[tegatdavis 0]

So last night I woke up in the middle of the night and couldn't go back to sleep so I decided to test my theory with my entry-level Canon ZR900 camcorder out back with the flood lights on. My theory so far (which I'm trying to confirm) has been that since the area is reasonably well lit to the extent that I can see clearly with the naked eye, I wouldn't need an all powerful low light camera with nightvision and IR LEDs.

 

Well the picture on my camcorder was HORRIBLE (basically pitch black, except for a little green from the foliage, and just grainy) to say the least. I didn't expect it to shine but I didn't expect it to be that bad either. Now I know my budget camcorder is no security cam and wasn't built to be used in low light conditions but the results do give me pause.

 

What I'm now wondering is even though the area seems well lit to me, are the budget low light camcorders (like the Nuvico CB-HD2N-L and CB-D3N-L) gonna have problems giving a usable image. I've seen the CB-SD3895N-L and the CB-SD21N-L get good ratings for their performance in low light but I don't want to step up to that price point if it is not necessary for my application.

 

If no suggestions I think I'll just buy one each of the HD2N and the SD3895 and test them out before buying the whole lot. Hopefully I can find a site with good return policy.

 

I'm not necessarily stuck on the Nuvicos but they just seem to be the best value out there price/performance/reliability/warranty wise based on what I've found. I'm willing to be re-educated though

[john_cctv 0]

You may want to look at the Lorex CVC8010 it has a lux of 0.002 with Sens-Up enabled.

[atgrun 0]

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[Scott Broscious 0]

Tegatdavis,

 

In regards to your "experiment" you have to remember that cameras have specific light sensitivities. Check for the min/max lux requirement when you're looking for a camera. 1 lux is like the amount of light on a clear night sky with a full moon.

 

I'd suggest you do more than just consider a black and white camera if you want it to work in low light conditions without nightvision/ir as a black and white camera will have a higher sensitivity to light than a color camera.

 

Considering this there are plenty of low cost cameras well under 150 that would be perfect for your situation. We'd definitely need a bit more information than you've provided to give you a more precise answer.

 

The problem with flood lights and cameras comes in when you think about the cameras sensitivity to light. Basically with those flood lights on, its going to be trickey to find a camera thats not only adjustable, but could give you a picture thats not to washed out in the lihgt of the flood lights or too dark when it hits the shadows the flood lights dont reach.

 

You may have to decide which you'd rather have, a cheap outdoor low light camera that can see what you'd see with your naked eye at night with those flood lights on (which could amount to the same image you saw in the camcorder outside the lit area of those flood lights), or an expensive camera that does exactly what you need (and more that you dont). I say this because there is a distinct difference between a camera that is able to operate under low light and a camera that can operate both in the light produced by a flood light and still produce a nice picture in low light at the same time.

 

My suggestion to you would be when your installing these cameras that you dont install them inside the cone of light produced by the flood lights. Place them outside the light that way the light sensor isn't confused by the contrasting light and shadow, it'd be utilizing low light while still seeing everything that takes place in the flood lights light instead of being directly affected by the light produced by the flood light and thus not able to render an image outside of that light as well as it should be.

 

Hopoefully you understand this last paragraph, if not let me know and I'll think of another way of saying it.

[sviviani 0]

Tegatdavis,

 

In regards to your "experiment" you have to remember that cameras have specific light sensitivities. Check for the min/max lux requirement when you're looking for a camera. 1 lux is like the amount of light on a clear night sky with a full moon.

 

I'd suggest you do more than just consider a black and white camera if you want it to work in low light conditions without nightvision/ir as a black and white camera will have a higher sensitivity to light than a color camera.

 

Considering this there are plenty of low cost cameras well under 150 that would be perfect for your situation. We'd definitely need a bit more information than you've provided to give you a more precise answer.

 

The problem with flood lights and cameras comes in when you think about the cameras sensitivity to light. Basically with those flood lights on, its going to be trickey to find a camera thats not only adjustable, but could give you a picture thats not to washed out in the lihgt of the flood lights or too dark when it hits the shadows the flood lights dont reach.

 

You may have to decide which you'd rather have, a cheap outdoor low light camera that can see what you'd see with your naked eye at night with those flood lights on (which could amount to the same image you saw in the camcorder outside the lit area of those flood lights), or an expensive camera that does exactly what you need (and more that you dont). I say this because there is a distinct difference between a camera that is able to operate under low light and a camera that can operate both in the light produced by a flood light and still produce a nice picture in low light at the same time.

 

My suggestion to you would be when your installing these cameras that you dont install them inside the cone of light produced by the flood lights. Place them outside the light that way the light sensor isn't confused by the contrasting light and shadow, it'd be utilizing low light while still seeing everything that takes place in the flood lights light instead of being directly affected by the light produced by the flood light and thus not able to render an image outside of that light as well as it should be.

 

Hopoefully you understand this last paragraph, if not let me know and I'll think of another way of saying it.

 

 

very good explanation

[Scott Broscious 0]

Thanks much sviviani! My only hope is the OP finds it helpful.

[tegatdavis 0]

Thanks for the response Scott. However, I thought it was pretty common for cameras to be mounted within the cone of light provided by a light source with the light source somewhat behind the camera to avoid glare. What you are saying is I should consider mounting the camera outside the cone of light so maybe several feet to the side of the light. I have to say that does sound like it would work as you suggest. I plan on ordering a single camera to test it out under real-world conditions and I will take your suggestion into consideration. I'll make my final mounting location decision based on the results. I'll post my results here so others can benefit from the info.

 

By the way I decided to up my budget to ~$250 per cam. I realized that the first cameras I was looking at (Nuvico CB-HD2N-L and CB-D3N-L) didn't have an IR Cut filter so I think the daytime images would've been washed out based on what I've read on this forum. I'm currently looking at the CB-SD21N-L (bullet w/IR) and the CV-SD21N (dome w/out IR). I am however considering going with all domes and utilizing a wall mount to mount them to the walls. I like the domes because you can't quite tell which direction the camera is pointing in which helps in my situation since I'm not going to have full coverage all the way around my property. The CB-SD21N-L replaced the CB-SD3895 which had good reviews so I'm assuming it should be good also. The CV-SD21N appears to be the dome sister cam of the CB-SD21N-L except that it lacks IR so I'm thinking it should be just as good.