CCTV in elevator help

[AlanCRO 0]

Hello,

 

I must install cameras in elevator (17 floors), there is no possibility to use cables. Iam using BNC cameras.

Has anybody have same experience with wireless solutions?

Transmitter and receiver BNC version (what products).

 

 

Thanks!

[scorpion 0]

I am not in your area so I will defer to what ever local laws, codes, and prefered elevator installation practices that are used in your area.

 

You will have to decide if you want to top mount the transmitter, or bottom mount the transmitter.

 

You will have to mount the receiver on the same side as where you mounted the transmitter. If you top mount on the cab, then the receiver will have to be at the top of the shaft.

 

What freq will you use? Since you are not paying the elevator company to come out, and add a CCTV cable to the follow cable, then I can assume you are not going to have the FCC issue you a freq for you to use, and you do not want to pay for the license. This means you will have to use a license free freq. 2.4Ghz is free, but you may pick up interference from wireless 802.11 routers, or from 2.4Ghz cordless phones, and other sources of interference.

 

I would defer that you have the elevator company come out, and add to the follower cable.

 

You may find that you cannot run a complete video surveillance system using the shaft to run all of the CCTV wires from the various floors to one destination such as a DVR. You may find the elevator wire ok, but not the other camera wires. You will have to check your local codes. There is fear that the elevator shaft may spread a fire if there is a source of fuel to help spread the fire from floor to floor.

 

Using conduit for your CCTV cables may make the system more exceptable for allowing the cables in the shaft.

 

Notes:

You may have interference from your own wireless system. The signal may bounce off the walls causing interference. You may want to test your wireless solution prior to an install.

 

Do not use smoke detector covert cameras unless they are real detectors with the cctv added. Use covert motion instead.

 

Stainless steel corner mini cameras are good for budget systems, but vandal resistant cameras may be preferred.

 

For 17 floors you may want to have zones setup for wireless. In other words one receiver for the lower half of the shaft, and one at the top for the top half of the shaft.

 

You might try a one watt transmitter to see how the signal works from the first floor to the top, or vice versa depending where the transmitter is mounted.

[hardwired 0]

At a hospital we did, there was an extra twisted pair available in the traveler cable already, just added a set of Nitek amplified baluns. You may want to check with the elevator people there to see if that is the case, or if adding a replacement traveler with the extra pairs is an option.

 

It is a little electrically noisy, a really good set of baluns helps.

 

Good luck, BTW, the elevator people here are the unfriendliest people making $275/ hour I've ever met, will not let you touch a thing in the elevator cab directly, we have to point them through the install.

 

Using WDR cams, helps, too, there is a big contrast when the doors open and close.

[survtech 0]

Wireless does not work well where either end (transmitter or receiver) moves. That would include elevators. To prove the point, take a wireless transmitter and receiver and walk either one towards and away from the other. The signal will fade in and out.

 

We had the same issue with elevators at our casino. In our case, the traveller cable had no spare cables of any type so wireless was our only cost-effective option. We approached a number of wireless manufacturers to see if their products could do what we wanted. Several said they could but when we asked if we could return the equipment if it didn't work, all of them said no.

 

We eventually had to add an additional stringer cable to one critical elevator and gave up on the rest. Now we specify that new elevators have either coax and a pair or an extra two twisted-pairs in the stringer specifically for video and power for a camera.

 

Note, the cost was approximately $10,000 to add a second stringer cable to an elevator that only runs between three floors.

 

I strongly recommend wire. And contact with the elevator manufacturer. Doing this yourself could subject you to a lawsuit and/or fine.

[ak357 0]

Wireless does not work well where either end (transmitter or receiver) moves. That would include elevators. To prove the point, take a wireless transmitter and receiver and walk either one towards and away from the other. The signal will fade in and out.

 

.

 

Hmm I guess I was lucky

I have about 5 set of wireless working in elevators for last 5 years without problems

each building between 5-9 floors

[survtech 0]

No fading when the elevator moves? What kind of antennas did you use? What frequency, 2.4GHz or 5.8GHz?

[ak357 0]

No fading when the elevator moves? What kind of antennas did you use? What frequency, 2.4GHz or 5.8GHz?

 

1 watt Tr

2.4Gig

Short stick Ant

[sviviani 0]

do not touch an elevator without notifying the elevator company first. LIFE SAFETY!

[ak357 0]

do not touch an elevator without notifying the elevator company first. LIFE SAFETY!

 

Thx

but I kinda aware about this for long time

do u think I was doing job nooooo

they did it

I just supply and manage and charge

[Soundy 1]

Keep in mind that all you need is a single pair for baluns to work - doesn't need to be twisted or shielded or anything. An unused pair in the emergency-phone run will usually do nicely. Most elevators will have power outlets on the roof to plug in a camera's adapter - if not, an electrician should be able to add one.

 

The other thing you could look at is powerline transceivers, either video or network (and use an IP camera), and modulate your signal over the car's power feed.

[sviviani 0]

do not touch an elevator without notifying the elevator company first. LIFE SAFETY!

 

Thx

but I kinda aware about this for long time

do u think I was doing job nooooo

they did it

I just supply and manage and charge

 

was talking mostly to op, his post gave me a diy vibe.

[Squiffy 0]

> Wireless does not work well where either end (transmitter or receiver) moves

 

In my experience the biggest problem is when you get multipath reception, with AM you'd get ghosting but with FM video it results in a nasty unsynchronised mess as you move (through nodes/antinodes).

 

If diversity reception is used then it's far less problematic.

[jeromephone 6]

your best bet is to get with the elevator people and see what they have avaliable in the traveler cable as someone else has already suggested. usually they have at least 2 to 4 pair for the emergency phone most emergency phones now only need one pair to operate. If you can use any existing cable you will lower your cost and have a much more consistent picture. Make sure you use a good camera as a lot of elevators go dark when not in use and the door opening and light coming on sometimes blinds the cam for a few seconds.

[AlanCRO 0]

Thanks everybody for helping.

I contact the elevator guys and they will do the cabling for me.

There is few wires free and i will use the balloons.

 

I will use quality camera with BLC/WDR.

 

Thanks again.

[Soundy 1]

I wouldn't worry too much about BLC/WDR... backlighting should not be a problem in an elevator (unless you're mounting the camera in the floor, or on the back wall looking at the door). WDR *might* be briefly helpful while the doors are open (depending on the ambient light outside the car) but it's such a short instance, it really shouldn't be a problem. If you're looking to capture any potential issues (vandalism, etc.), those are going to happen once the doors close anyway.

[bigbuilding 0]

I dont think its code in my area to install wireless cctv (although I may be thinking of wireless access control). However it is code to install those Captivate advertisement screens wich are wireless and work great.

 

Make sure you use the right type of cable that is able to bend/flex in elevator traveling cable.

 

Think about the equipment you are installing including power supplies, you dont want to have to have an elevator tech come out everytime you service the cctv equipment.

[supra_06 0]

from the dvr..

run a uto cable up to the machine room, then use a balun.. connect a bnc from the machine room, follow the travelling cable down to elevator car using belden stranded coax RG6.. connect the camera. get power from elevator cartop theres always a AC supply at the cartop. optional to use UPS. i used to be an elevators tech'n before

 

however if the elevator power fails the camera will be using battery and will drain power later.

 

thats the best thing i know as an amatuer.

im not that well in technical matters.

 

thats true, never attemp to open any door from any level,

tech'ns always have an SOP. it is sometimes fatal.

[supra_06 0]

you can consider putting the power supplies and the connector near the manhole for car top. so when you have to service the camera you just need to bring the car to lowest stop. temporary shut the elevator down to do the servicing.. anyway.. if u leave any doors open or the cartop manhole open, the elevator is imposible to run. unless your rude elevator technician by passed the safety circuit at the elevator machine room

[panvigorcctv 0]

use WiFi camera... it might work ?

[WEBB 0]

(I realize this is an older post but since I have some knowledge in this area, I hope you don't mind that I make a comment here.)

 

The MWP-MMM system has an ASME 17.1 2010 compliant elevator phone which replaces the existing phone in the cab. You simply mount the camera, plug it into the phone and then in the TEL room (or security room) you use a second MMM module to de-multiplex the signal making it available for your DVR. All signals travel over the existing twisted pair telephone wire. Interior views of the elevator cab can also be viewed through an internet I.P address if that is what the project owner is looking for.

 

Card readers and advertising screens can also be plugged into the phone, operating at the same time, without any degradation of quality.

 

There is no need for travel cable to be installed.

 

Great site, this was my first post....thank you for the opportunity guys.

 

Rick

[ssmith10pn 0]

Last time we did some we used these in Stainless up in the corner

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/492383-REG/Videolarm_WS6S_50NF_WS6S_50NF_Warrior_Six_Vandal_Resistant.html

 

Then we got with the elevator people and used spare conductors in the travelers for Baluns and power then converted to coax in the machine room.

 

I'll grab some stills and post them.

[ssmith10pn 0]

[eos 0]

Since someone bumped this, what about the Vitek http://www.vitekcctv.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductID=681 VT-LTR13V laser transmitter, saw it at the ISC show in Vegas last year.

 

Have not put one in, but they had one on display and showed how as the elevator gets farther away from the receiver the beam gets bigger and therefore more robust.

[ssmith10pn 0]

Well it looks cool but I can't see why. There is almost always spare wires in the traveler.

 

Not to mention that anything in the elevator pit has to be in rigid conduit.

[Sailesh 0]

Hello,

 

I must install cameras in elevator (17 floors), there is no possibility to use cables. Iam using BNC cameras.

Has anybody have same experience with wireless solutions?

Transmitter and receiver BNC version (what products).

 

 

Thanks!

Yes We have experience in wireless CCTV for elevator. We supply IP based camera for high speed elevator up to 300 meters. For more information you can visit www.elevatech.in