Hosted DVR solution - is there a future?

[ugolog 0]

I am creator of video monitoring site - Ugolog. Site works as "online DVR", eliminating the need for PC or standalone DVR. Network Camera + Internet connection is all you need.

 

My main idea - DVRs are expensive and firewall configuration is complicated. I think if I can remove DVR and firewall configuration issues from the picture - the world will be a better place

 

I am trying to figure out what how can I make this site more appealing to home users and security professionals.

 

What do you think is more important for online DVR ?

 

- Website looks

- Website functionality

- Easy setup, setup documentation

- Price

 

If you have ideas or complains - I want to hear them

 

Thank you

[scorpion 0]

I would want to know who has access to the video other than the customers.

 

You will have to create some unique marketing for those who want "security is of the essence".

 

How does one over come power outage, and internet down times?

 

Please forgive my questions.

[Soundy 1]

I could definitely see this being marketed as a BACKUP service, recording in addition to the local NVR. If you could develop some sort of plugin or background service or something for PC-based DVRs or hybrids, that would stream their own analog recordings to your offsite storage, that would be a good selling point too.

 

Power outages, you'd just have all your local equipment on a UPS, same as you would with local storage - local DVRs are subject to the same problems. Internet connectivity could be an issue, but as with any business internet solution, you might have to pay a premium to get the guaranteed uptime. My home cable broadband has been rock-solid for years - even on a basic residential account, I've had probably 99.99% uptime (not counting 12 hours or so when I forgot to pay my bill last month).

[ugolog 0]

Obviously, only customer has access to his own videos.

 

Internet downtime is the problem, since power uptime is usually higher then internet uptime. But I think that initial market for online DVR/NVR would be "security awareness", not "security alarm" applications. Something non mission-critical but still requiring high level of availability (monitoring vacation house, small business at night, etc)

 

I would want to know who has access to the video other than the customers.

 

You will have to create some unique marketing for those who want "security is of the essence".

 

How does one over come power outage, and internet down times?

 

Please forgive my questions.

[ugolog 0]

Here is how I see it.

 

a) You want high-end setup video history at 30fps, full time/realtime/megapixel cameras/etc.

b) You want simple and cheap setup

 

I am not trying to cover a) - may be in 5 years, but not now. But b) is totally open game now. There is no solution in the market that can let monitor your driveway for $300/year (including camera purchase).

 

BACKUP? OK, I admit, I do not get it

 

Do you think this market is not worth pursuing?

Do you think that "monitor driveway" market is better served with PC-based systems?

 

Alexander

 

I could definitely see this being marketed as a BACKUP service, recording in addition to the local NVR. If you could develop some sort of plugin or background service or something for PC-based DVRs or hybrids, that would stream their own analog

[Soundy 1]

Here is how I see it.

 

a) You want high-end setup video history at 30fps, full time/realtime/megapixel cameras/etc.

b) You want simple and cheap setup

 

There's LOTS of middle-ground there. Most of our customers are fuel services, and with the two main ones that we do their new installs, corporate spec for analog is 30 days' retention, CIF @ 1fps (although we usually up it a bit for critical views like paypoint, ID, etc.). But, it's all high-quality gear and installs, no $50 IR lipstick cams.

 

I am not trying to cover a) - may be in 5 years, but not now.

 

Most people wouldn't have the bandwidth for that.

 

But b) is totally open game now. There is no solution in the market that can let monitor your driveway for $300/year (including camera purchase).

 

That is true. Are you thinking of including the camera in this offer?

 

BACKUP? OK, I admit, I do not get it

 

Well, I mean, I would record to my local DVR/NVR, but then I would ALSO send the video off-site to your service... in case, for example, the local machine is stolen or destroyed in a fire, or the local data is lost in some other way.

 

Do you think this market is not worth pursuing?

 

Not at all. It could be good for the residential market... I just don't service the residential market at all I was just thinking of how it could be useful to our client base.

[Scott Broscious 0]

I'd have to say funcionality would be a big factor in my eyes. I already do something similar to what your doing (but I only offer hosted storage for prerecorded video like what soundy is refering to as "back up"), and I always get asked..well what else can I do with this?

 

So I'd suggest taking a poll from your market (ppl that already use a dvr) and find out the features they like about their dvr and find a hosting solution/software that would best be able to handle these features. Depending on your own abilities, OS of your server, the software you choose and the bandwidth you're capable of delivering on a continuous basis, the sky is the limit as far as functionality goes.

 

I'd also think about price. When you're talking about uploading/downloading information your actually talking about badwitdth requirements. Example: If i have system that is only capable of a low resolution it will require MUCH less bandwidth to upload/download that video than a if I do the same with a system thats capable of higher resolutions.

 

So different prices dependant on the needs of your users is also an important factor. Why would I be willing to pay 100 a month for your service (just an example) when I know walmart (again an example) is apying the same and they have a more robust system than my single camera setup? Especially when I can purchase any hosting solution, some for as low as 5 bucks a month, that will allow me to back up all of my video for far less than you charge...again price vs functionality.

 

 

As far as the market goes....the only people I've been able to even sit down and have them listen long enough to this (as I guess it seems like to much work for everyone) are people that I know personally who know I'd be able to make it work for them and know that when I say its easy....its easy. Then again I haven't really tried marketing it to anyone else , but thats more because I haven't been able to get more than an"well thats cool" from those that have listened long enough to come to some form of understanding about it....so I do wish you the best of luck in this endeavor, and be sure to let me know how it pans out for you !

 

NOTE-These are just my ideas.

 

 

-soundy...sooner or later im going to copy that bunny from your sig lol

[ugolog 0]

Most of our customers are fuel services, and with the two main ones that we do their new installs, corporate spec for analog is 30 days' retention, CIF @ 1fps (although we usually up it a bit for critical views like paypoint, ID, etc.). But, it's all high-quality gear and installs, no $50 IR lipstick cams.

 

Hmm... That is interesting. Though at 1fps it is still about 100-200GB of data a month for a decent quality image - it is doable. Expensive, but doable.

 

Do you think this market is not worth pursuing?

 

Not at all. It could be good for the residential market... I just don't service the residential market at all I was just thinking of how it could be useful to our client base.

 

Thank you for your comments

[ugolog 0]

So different prices dependant on the needs of your users is also an important factor. Why would I be willing to pay 100 a month for your service (just an example) when I know walmart (again an example) is apying the same and they have a more robust system than my single camera setup? Especially when I can purchase any hosting solution, some for as low as 5 bucks a month, that will allow me to back up all of my video for far less than you charge...again price vs functionality.

 

I am thinking about $10-$15 month for home users. Do you think this is reasonable? I expect that most home applications (monitor pets, entrance to garage, etc) do not require 24x7 recording. And if I record motion activated events only - the traffic and storage becomes reasonable (within few GB a month)

[ugolog 0]

That is true. Are you thinking of including the camera in this offer?

 

Possibly... I am an engineer not a businessman - so it would take time to figure out my promotion strategy . But including a $200 AXIS camera into $300 package sounds reasonable. I think I can work with a low-traffic client for $100/year and be profitable.

[Soundy 1]

Most of our customers are fuel services, and with the two main ones that we do their new installs, corporate spec for analog is 30 days' retention, CIF @ 1fps (although we usually up it a bit for critical views like paypoint, ID, etc.). But, it's all high-quality gear and installs, no $50 IR lipstick cams.

 

Hmm... That is interesting. Though at 1fps it is still about 100-200GB of data a month for a decent quality image - it is doable. Expensive, but doable.

 

Not really that much - we have some older sites that do it for 8-12 cameras on a 120GB DVR. A lot depends on the motion and how carefully the motion-detection sensitivity and masking is set up, of course, but CIF @ 1fps is not a lot of data, especially by today's standards.

 

At the other end of the spectrum, we have one site - a large upscale restaurant - that's recording at an average 4fps across 23 analog cameras at 4CIF, and five 1.3MP IP cameras, and they want 90 days' retention... for that, we have three 1TB drives in the DVR, and another 6.5TB in an 8x1TB RAID5 array...

[Soundy 1]

So different prices dependant on the needs of your users is also an important factor. Why would I be willing to pay 100 a month for your service (just an example) when I know walmart (again an example) is apying the same and they have a more robust system than my single camera setup? Especially when I can purchase any hosting solution, some for as low as 5 bucks a month, that will allow me to back up all of my video for far less than you charge...again price vs functionality.

 

I am thinking about $10-$15 month for home users. Do you think this is reasonable? I expect that most home applications (monitor pets, entrance to garage, etc) do not require 24x7 recording. And if I record motion activated events only - the traffic and storage becomes reasonable (within few GB a month)

 

There's an alarm company in Canada, called AlarmForce, that has a similar type of business model: you pay nothing up-front for installation or the equipment, and $25/mo for the monitoring. The old-school alarm guys poo-poo it, but we had it once in a rental townhouse, and it works fairly well. The "brain" is just a little box that plugs into power and the phone line; the base price includes one motion sensor and one door sensor (both wireless). For a keypad, you use any existing phone in the house to enter your codes. The "brain" includes a speakerphone setup, so when it goes off, it calls the monitoring station, and they can communicate back directly.

 

The thing we liked about it, being on a really tight budget at the time, was the payment model - most installed systems would have been in the $500-$1000+ range (installed cost), something we could never have afforded at the time. For someone who wants a camera for their home or small business that doesn't have the upfront cash for the system, yours may be a good idea.

 

The catch to the AlarmForce model (there's always a catch, isn't there?) is that you have to sign up for a four-year contract, and early cancellation basically requires you to pay out the rest of the total amount to the end of that term. They also stipulate that they own the equipment, so when you do end your contract, they get the system back. The plus-side to that, for the user, is that they also warranty it for the entire time you have it - the only thing you have to do is change the batteries in the sensors once a year.

 

I know, I'm sounding like a salesman for these guys... but I'm thinking, it's a business model that's worked well for them for a long time (the latest commercials also make a big deal that they haven't changed their monitoring rates in 15+ years), and it may give you some ideas for what you want to do: instead of selling the camera, lease it to the customer along with the service. If they ever terminate, you take the camera back, and you can lease it to someone else. Now the downside to that, with the cameras, is that the technology is moving so fast, but you could add in a clause that provides for future upgrades as well. The main idea is, it's additional peace of mind for the customer, that they don't have to ever worry about the hardware, and the ability to get it installed and running without a huge up-front cash outlay will be attractive to a lot of people, especially in today's economy.

 

Of course, you'll have to work out what kind of monthly rate and contract term will allow you to recoup your costs properly - $25/mo for four years is a total of $1200, but compare that to what it would cost them to get the camera and a recorder, and then get it installed, and then add the remote recording on top of that. In the case of the alarm setup, monitoring for a regular home alarm at the time was $15-$20/mo., which added to even a mere $500 installation would have come to $1220-$1960 over the four years.

 

The other thing you'd have to be sure to include is a stipulation that broadband internet is required on-site, and that the customer is wholly responsible for the reliability of his own internet connection (meaning, if it's flaky or goes down, he has to deal with the provider to get it going).

[ak357 0]

So different prices dependant on the needs of your users is also an important factor. Why would I be willing to pay 100 a month for your service (just an example) when I know walmart (again an example) is apying the same and they have a more robust system than my single camera setup? Especially when I can purchase any hosting solution, some for as low as 5 bucks a month, that will allow me to back up all of my video for far less than you charge...again price vs functionality.

 

I am thinking about $10-$15 month for home users. Do you think this is reasonable? I expect that most home applications (monitor pets, entrance to garage, etc) do not require 24x7 recording. And if I record motion activated events only - the traffic and storage becomes reasonable (within few GB a month)

 

There's an alarm company in Canada, called AlarmForce, that has a similar type of business model: you pay nothing up-front for installation or the equipment, and $25/mo for the monitoring. The old-school alarm guys poo-poo it, but we had it once in a rental townhouse, and it works fairly well. The "brain" is just a little box that plugs into power and the phone line; the base price includes one motion sensor and one door sensor (both wireless). For a keypad, you use any existing phone in the house to enter your codes. The "brain" includes a speakerphone setup, so when it goes off, it calls the monitoring station, and they can communicate back directly.

 

The thing we liked about it, being on a really tight budget at the time, was the payment model - most installed systems would have been in the $500-$1000+ range (installed cost), something we could never have afforded at the time. For someone who wants a camera for their home or small business that doesn't have the upfront cash for the system, yours may be a good idea.

 

The catch to the AlarmForce model (there's always a catch, isn't there?) is that you have to sign up for a four-year contract, and early cancellation basically requires you to pay out the rest of the total amount to the end of that term. They also stipulate that they own the equipment, so when you do end your contract, they get the system back. The plus-side to that, for the user, is that they also warranty it for the entire time you have it - the only thing you have to do is change the batteries in the sensors once a year.

 

I know, I'm sounding like a salesman for these guys... but I'm thinking, it's a business model that's worked well for them for a long time (the latest commercials also make a big deal that they haven't changed their monitoring rates in 15+ years), and it may give you some ideas for what you want to do: instead of selling the camera, lease it to the customer along with the service. If they ever terminate, you take the camera back, and you can lease it to someone else. Now the downside to that, with the cameras, is that the technology is moving so fast, but you could add in a clause that provides for future upgrades as well. The main idea is, it's additional peace of mind for the customer, that they don't have to ever worry about the hardware, and the ability to get it installed and running without a huge up-front cash outlay will be attractive to a lot of people, especially in today's economy.

 

Of course, you'll have to work out what kind of monthly rate and contract term will allow you to recoup your costs properly - $25/mo for four years is a total of $1200, but compare that to what it would cost them to get the camera and a recorder, and then get it installed, and then add the remote recording on top of that. In the case of the alarm setup, monitoring for a regular home alarm at the time was $15-$20/mo., which added to even a mere $500 installation would have come to $1220-$1960 over the four years.

 

The other thing you'd have to be sure to include is a stipulation that broadband internet is required on-site, and that the customer is wholly responsible for the reliability of his own internet connection (meaning, if it's flaky or goes down, he has to deal with the provider to get it going).

 

May be that type of discussion should be in Dealer section ?

Edited June 13, 2009 by Guest

[ugolog 0]

 

There's an alarm company in Canada, called AlarmForce, that has a similar type of business model: you pay nothing up-front for installation or the equipment, and $25/mo for the monitoring.

 

Interesting. I am going to check out their promo materials. I plan redesigning website in the next few weeks, but then I will have to dive into marketing/selling. I will need all the help and samples I can find

 

The other thing you'd have to be sure to include is a stipulation that broadband internet is required on-site, and that the customer is wholly responsible for the reliability of his own internet connection (meaning, if it's flaky or goes down, he has to deal with the provider to get it going).

 

Thank you for the great write up! And broadband stipulation is a great idea - I definitely have to do this.

 

Alexander

[Soundy 1]

May that type of discussion should be in Dealer section ?

 

That would be great, but I don't have access to that section.

[ak357 0]

May that type of discussion should be in Dealer section ?

 

That would be great, but I don't have access to that section.

 

 

Aha so you are not Dealer O my God

[rory 0]

My home cable broadband has been rock-solid for years - even on a basic residential account, I've had probably 99.99% uptime.

 

i want to live where you do.

ps. thats actually quite unusual to have such good internet uptime.

[rory 0]

you wont take people away from locally placed DVRs/TVs.

You can do this as an optional service. cons are:

 

1-Internet goes down - less you have some amazing service like soundy, most of us dont.

 

2-Website goes down - yep your server, things happen.

 

3-Extra Expense - yours PLUS the internet connection - and no, not everyone has internet connections automatically, that still costs money.

 

4-Extra expense for Network camera/device - yep, basic CCTV camera cost under $100, throw any old RCA or coax wire across the attic and stick it into TV .. pretty str8 forward and cheap.

 

5-Using Internet Explorer for ActiveX? I cant tell but if so, many people dont even have it installed anymore, security issues. Should look at giving them an option of downloadable software that can be run on their PC.

 

my 5 cents.

[rory 0]

So different prices dependant on the needs of your users is also an important factor. Why would I be willing to pay 100 a month for your service (just an example) when I know walmart (again an example) is apying the same and they have a more robust system than my single camera setup? Especially when I can purchase any hosting solution, some for as low as 5 bucks a month, that will allow me to back up all of my video for far less than you charge...again price vs functionality.

 

I am thinking about $10-$15 month for home users. Do you think this is reasonable? I expect that most home applications (monitor pets, entrance to garage, etc) do not require 24x7 recording. And if I record motion activated events only - the traffic and storage becomes reasonable (within few GB a month)

 

There's an alarm company in Canada, called AlarmForce, that has a similar type of business model: you pay nothing up-front for installation or the equipment, and $25/mo for the monitoring. The old-school alarm guys poo-poo it, but we had it once in a rental townhouse, and it works fairly well. The "brain" is just a little box that plugs into power and the phone line; the base price includes one motion sensor and one door sensor (both wireless). For a keypad, you use any existing phone in the house to enter your codes. The "brain" includes a speakerphone setup, so when it goes off, it calls the monitoring station, and they can communicate back directly.

 

The thing we liked about it, being on a really tight budget at the time, was the payment model - most installed systems would have been in the $500-$1000+ range (installed cost), something we could never have afforded at the time. For someone who wants a camera for their home or small business that doesn't have the upfront cash for the system, yours may be a good idea.

 

The catch to the AlarmForce model (there's always a catch, isn't there?) is that you have to sign up for a four-year contract, and early cancellation basically requires you to pay out the rest of the total amount to the end of that term. They also stipulate that they own the equipment, so when you do end your contract, they get the system back. The plus-side to that, for the user, is that they also warranty it for the entire time you have it - the only thing you have to do is change the batteries in the sensors once a year.

 

I know, I'm sounding like a salesman for these guys... but I'm thinking, it's a business model that's worked well for them for a long time (the latest commercials also make a big deal that they haven't changed their monitoring rates in 15+ years), and it may give you some ideas for what you want to do: instead of selling the camera, lease it to the customer along with the service. If they ever terminate, you take the camera back, and you can lease it to someone else. Now the downside to that, with the cameras, is that the technology is moving so fast, but you could add in a clause that provides for future upgrades as well. The main idea is, it's additional peace of mind for the customer, that they don't have to ever worry about the hardware, and the ability to get it installed and running without a huge up-front cash outlay will be attractive to a lot of people, especially in today's economy.

 

Of course, you'll have to work out what kind of monthly rate and contract term will allow you to recoup your costs properly - $25/mo for four years is a total of $1200, but compare that to what it would cost them to get the camera and a recorder, and then get it installed, and then add the remote recording on top of that. In the case of the alarm setup, monitoring for a regular home alarm at the time was $15-$20/mo., which added to even a mere $500 installation would have come to $1220-$1960 over the four years.

 

The other thing you'd have to be sure to include is a stipulation that broadband internet is required on-site, and that the customer is wholly responsible for the reliability of his own internet connection (meaning, if it's flaky or goes down, he has to deal with the provider to get it going).

 

I know a guy who's monitoring company does free alarms here. They give you the alarm system, installed for free - ademco wireless system, 3TX, 1 Wireless Motion, Keypad, Indoor Siren - free install and you keep the product - no contracts. Catch is you pay 1 year monitoring up front, which is really about the typical price of the parts - approx $350 down here in the Bahamas. All monitoring for 1 year is already paid and after that year they can cancel monitoring or switch if they want as the product is theirs. Hes making a killing off that here.

[cctv_down_under 0]

I saw a product once that was actually an alarm PIR with the ability to send pictures by email or FTP or Dial Up, this device sent video on alarm to a server OS, that server had a SMS server that sent a text to the owner alerting them of the alram even and asking if they wanted the video sent to another location or email.

 

it was pretty nifty in that you could reply to the SMS with the email you wanted ...no matter where you were...it also told you the local police number to contact because this info was set up as part of the staging process.

 

The point is though without meeitng certain standards of recording proofs, the server itself could be taken by police for evidence of the courts.

 

Also rules for recording CCTV differ in every place and frequently change....Imagine someone undressing infront of said camera.....imagine it was a 7yr old girl.....you are now transmitting that info through the web......MY GOD you would want to be sure its secure.

 

I dont think with ISP's that your going to have a lot of luck too, as some people charge for uploads and some dont...some ISP's block certain ports too.

 

But still images even at a fast FTP rate are not a lot, especially when only activated on alarm....kind of handy idea

[Twilo123 0]

i think videofied does something similar to this. i just saw them at ESX and they said the actual cellular connection was only a few dollars a month. no need to rely on customer connection either as it is cellular.

 

I saw a product once that was actually an alarm PIR with the ability to send pictures by email or FTP or Dial Up, this device sent video on alarm to a server OS, that server had a SMS server that sent a text to the owner alerting them of the alram even and asking if they wanted the video sent to another location or email.

 

it was pretty nifty in that you could reply to the SMS with the email you wanted ...no matter where you were...it also told you the local police number to contact because this info was set up as part of the staging process.

 

The point is though without meeitng certain standards of recording proofs, the server itself could be taken by police for evidence of the courts.

 

Also rules for recording CCTV differ in every place and frequently change....Imagine someone undressing infront of said camera.....imagine it was a 7yr old girl.....you are now transmitting that info through the web......MY GOD you would want to be sure its secure.

 

I dont think with ISP's that your going to have a lot of luck too, as some people charge for uploads and some dont...some ISP's block certain ports too.

 

But still images even at a fast FTP rate are not a lot, especially when only activated on alarm....kind of handy idea