IR Lighting for closeup with miniature camera

[FarmerCharlie 0]

My apologies if this is too long-winded or posted in the wrong section. This is my first real post to this forum.

 

My current project is to design an improved camera for the interior of purple martin gourds or bird houses in general. I did a forum search on "ir led camera" and found a lot of useful information, but most of the posts there dealt more with longer distance monitoring.

 

So far I have setup a gourd using a Clover OC950 camera that has six IR LED lights. The light was way too intense and glaring, so I put several layers of Nexcare adhesive tape over the LEDs to reduce the intensity. That works pretty well--until the tape falls off. In theory the camera does color during the day and B&W at night. In practice, I don't think enough light ever gets into the gourd for the camera to use color mode.

 

I want a camera with a little better resolution and adjustable IR LED illumination more appropriate for distances of just a few inches.

 

My first test is using a Visiontech VC32HB with various IR LED light sources, including a handy Ramsey IR Illuminator kit and some Radio Shack IR LEDs. Now I'm ready to move to the next stage. Attached is an image of my first prototype.

 

Here are some questions on which I could use some advice:

 

1. Is the Visiontech VC32HB a reasonable one to use for this, or would you recommend something different? As indicated above, the camera probably does not really need color, but the higher the resolution the better.

 

2. The camera does need interchangeable lenses, so I can switch to wider angle when needed.

 

3. What LEDs would be a good choice for this, and what sources would you recommend for small quantities?

 

4. What would be best to use to reduce glare (instead of the adhesive tape I am using with the OC950)?

 

5. Heat is a consideration. I will probably want to mount any resistors or other heat producing circuitry on the outside of gourd.

 

Any advice you folks would be willing to provide would be appreciated. I also have some questions on the surveillance system I am using, but I'll save those for another post.

 

Thanks,

 

Charles

[HeadsUp 0]

that camera is poor for night use due to only being 2 lux minimum light level

 

a decent IR day/night camera with infrared would go down to 0.03 lux or better

 

there is cameras available that go down to 0.00001 lux and cost as little as $ USD 135

 

also , thats only a CMOS thing of 380 line , a true CCD camera is miles better

 

 

depends how much you want to spend

 

 

love the idea of finding new places to hide these things , bird houses have been used before but can be a bit confusing for the birds hahaha

 

a wooden " 2 bedroom " birdhouse can give one space for the bird with another hole for the camera , just point the holes in opposite directions so the birds dont trigger motion detect all day , and have seperate compartments for the camera , at least neighbours will think its a real birdhouse that way

 

good luck.

[FarmerCharlie 0]

that camera is poor for night use due to only being 2 lux minimum light level

....

love the idea of finding new places to hide these things , bird houses have been used before but can be a bit confusing for the birds

Thanks. my preliminary testing of the prototype confirms your information. I am looking into other cameras, but there are just too many choices for one with little experience with miniature cameras. Any suggestions or a link to a good article on this would help me avoid ordering the wrong camera again.

 

Regarding the effect on the birds, the experts seem to think that IR light for these cameras does not cause a problem. The birds certainly seem content based on my spying on them for a few weeks. I was concerned about the heat generated by the camera, so I put a thermometer in the gourd. I couldn't see any noticeable temperature rise with the camera on.

The main problem with the Clover OC950 I am using is that the LEDs produce way too much illumination at these close distances. The adhesive tape I put over the LEDs keeps coming off, which gives a lot of glare.

Thanks,

Charles

[HeadsUp 0]

it can be difficult to get a good night use covert camera that also has small lenses.

 

generally speaking , small cameras / small lenses lose their low light function , but the S88 below does both quite well .

 

www.mintron.com

 

email joy@mintron.com.tw

 

the S88's on their site have a 14 mm interchangeable screw lens which allows it to be hidden reasonably well , and also has superb night vision , the others on that page also have vari-focal auto iris lenses with mechanical IR cut filter .

 

 

tell them your application in detail , ask if they can advise a suitable camera which doesnt require infrared.

 

i am not sure about the pricing on these for you guys but it doesnt hurt to ask.

 

take a look at the spec on these , some of which have 256 x SensUp for low light vision without needing IR

 

S88 H 540 TVL

S88 420 TVL ( which is better quality than a chinese "1/3" inch 540TVL " )

 

.

 

if you want to stay with infrared , you will find some IR illuminators which have a combination of wide beam and narrow beam LED's built in to one array

 

these stop the hotspots and ghosting of facial features you have now , issue again is price.... you might find a quality IR for under $ 55 , but i have also seen commercial grade IR illuminators which go out to 220 metres night vision , and have constant light levels over the field , they are up to $ 500 - $ 1000 each .

 

another option is to put a diffuser sheet in front of your existing LED's , which takes away the red glow and also gives more even light distribution , i dont have a supplier for those yet i am sorry , so keen to find one if anyone can help out.

 

 

there is certainly some pretty awesome technology out there , most of it priced for commercial users only , but in years to come i think pricing will fall relatively as the sales volumes allow discounting .

.

 

for people who want to improve their cameras low light function , i have seen these on ebay , but never used one yet.

 

they have a 14 mm thread , and claim to improve low light function due to the large lens aperture , which sounds credible.

 

 

 

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[FarmerCharlie 0]

Thanks for the info. My birds fledged today, so this project has now become less of an emergency; I should have time to look into it before the martins return in March.

 

You mentioned the S88 with 14mm interchangeable screw lenses. I'll contact Mintron about them. The Clover OC950 I used has a small screw lens. I started with 3.6 mm with the eggs, and gradually went wider to 2.1 mm as the babies grew. Do you happen to know if these are the same type lenses you referred to? That is, are these lenses pretty standardized?

 

The reason for infrared is to minimize disturbing the birds. I do know that the 6 little LEDs on the Clover (even when covered with the adhesive tape) threw a lot of illumination out the entrance. The gourd with the IR light at the top left looks like a house with the lights on.

 

Thanks,

Charles

[HeadsUp 0]

sorry

 

i completely misunderstood you

 

.

 

i thought you were hiding the cameras inside the bird house so you could watch intruders in the yard

 

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but you are watching the birds inside....

 

.

 

my humble apologies.

 

.regarding infrared not disturbing the birds , some birds actually see infrared spectrum.

 

i saw a Tv documentary recently which identified certain breeds of fish and birds that could see infrared spectrum colours , and also in fact displayed colours on their plumage that are not visible to humans which are in the infrared spectrum

 

some birds may also see radio frequency waves , and use that ability for migration navigation.

 

us little old humans are not so special in comparison ...

 

i wonder what affect the IR would have on them ?

 

Mintron can supply that camera with 2.2 , 2.5 , and up to 12 mm lenses inside a birdhouse a 1.6 mm - 2.2 mm lens would be better result for you .

 

and one or two LED's might be enough with your CMOS , a cheap option could just be putting black duct tape covering up the other LED's or cable tie some black or opaque plastic to cover the rest you dont need.

 

also , the CMOS camera might be adequate due to the close up image , depends if you want to record photos and post them on the internet somewhere or not

 

i believe the M14 thread is an industry standard , although i have seen some that have a groove machined around the thread for a locking screw , but otherwise i have swapped lenses between half a dozen cameras of that style without a problem.

 

best wishes with it , sounds like an enjoyable activity.

[FarmerCharlie 0]

i thought you were hiding the cameras inside the bird house so you could watch intruders in the yard

 

.

but you are watching the birds inside....

Actually, I am doing both. I have two cameras outside looking at the gourds plus the one camera inside watching the birds. They are all connected to an AverMedia NV3000, and I am streaming two of them to the Internet.

.regarding infrared not disturbing the birds , some birds actually see infrared spectrum.

I need to look into that. I have been concerned that the IR light shining out of the gourd at night might attract nighttime predators. That is one reason I would like to reduce the illumination from what the Clover OC950 uses. But I just finished monitoring a nest for the whole 26 days from hatching until fledging, and all the babies made it. Some purple martin "landlords" occasionally suffer the destruction of an entire colony in a single night by just one owl.

i saw a Tv documentary recently which identified certain breeds of fish and birds that could see infrared spectrum colours , and also in fact displayed colours on their plumage that are not visible to humans which are in the infrared spectrum

 

some birds may also see radio frequency waves , and use that ability for migration navigation.

Interesting. I need to try to find that.

 

Mintron can supply that camera with 2.2 , 2.5 , and up to 12 mm lenses inside a birdhouse a 1.6 mm - 2.2 mm lens would be better result for you .

 

and one or two LED's might be enough with your CMOS , a cheap option could just be putting black duct tape covering up the other LED's or cable tie some black or opaque plastic to cover the rest you dont need.

 

also , the CMOS camera might be adequate due to the close up image , depends if you want to record photos and post them on the internet somewhere or not

 

i believe the M14 thread is an industry standard , although i have seen some that have a groove machined around the thread for a locking screw , but otherwise i have swapped lenses between half a dozen cameras of that style without a problem.

 

best wishes with it , sounds like an enjoyable activity.

I wish I had chatted with you before I started this venture. I might have saved both time and money.

 

I am attaching a typical capture from the AverMedia NV3000 card.

If you are interested, you can also check the streaming at

http://www.purplemartin.tv/charles_branch_combined/default.htm

Normally I stream the nest camera all the time. During the day I also stream a zoomed exterior view from my living room using a Sony TRV900. At night I switch to a distant exterior view using a cheap day.night all-weather camera and an infrared light source. The lens on the nest camera fogged up two nights ago during a severe rain storm, and I haven't lowered it to clean it for fear of prompting the babies to jump before they can fly. Three of the babies fledged today. If the last two fledge tomorrow, then I plan to lower the rack and clean the lens. Usually the parents bring the babies back to the nest at night for a few days. Then they all gather up and fly to Rio for the winter.

 

The season is about over for me. But you could watch similar cameras from some other people at the purplemartin.tv site.

 

Thanks again for your help.

 

Charles

[dopalgangr 1]

Something like this although I wouldnt buy from them there prices are high (IMO)...Anything with a Sony EX-View chipset should give you great low lux ratings and excellent low light video. I would also get a wide angle lense for it.

 

http://www.supercircuits.com/Security-Cameras/Board-Cameras/PC402UXP

 

You could also use black paint and paint over a couple of the ir's to take some of them out of the picture.

[HeadsUp 0]

love what you are doing there Charles.

 

I suppose you would be a big fan of David Attenborough then

 

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and dopelgangr , very nice camera there too , pity i got no google hits when i tried to search for the original manufacturer using the ID numbers visible on the front , i would have liked to talk to the factory direct.

 

 

best wishes guys !

 

[FarmerCharlie 0]

OK. Now if I haven't already done so, I'm going to really show my ignorance. I purchased several lenses for my Clover OC950. They have small screw-on threads and range from the standard 3.6 mm to 2.1 mm. Other than being able to more easily hide a camera, what is the difference between the types of lenses I have and pinhole lenses? Are pinhole lenses available in wide-angle, and are they interchangeable? One problem I have noticed is that the lenses I am using tend to fog up or get crud on them as the birds start growing and touching them. Would a pinhole lens be less susceptible to these problems?

 

I tried to Google a description of the different types of lenses, but came up short on my first attempt.

 

Thanks

Charles

Edited June 18, 2009 by Guest

[FarmerCharlie 0]

love what you are doing there Charles.

I suppose you would be a big fan of David Attenborough then

I'm just having a ball. I retired a few months ago as the I.T. director at my school. In my prior life I was a mechanical engineer, and then a physiology professor for almost 30 years. It's great to finally have the time to indulge in all my various obsessions. This year it has been cameras and surveillance systems. Next year? No telling.

[HeadsUp 0]

if you consider that some of the problem with dirty lenses is probably caused by them flapping their wings and throwing off water spray on to the lens , then i guess a 1 millimetre spray of water and dirt will cover half of a 2 mm diameter pinhole lens fairly quickly

 

whereas a standard screw in lens like you use now might take longer to get the lens obscured.

 

of course if some of that dirt is from them brushing up against the lens directly , then it wont take long to spoil the picture.

 

can you write a message inside the gourd instructing the birds to lick it clean each day ?

 

water spray and dirt will get flung around the whole interior , so i wonder if mounting the camera further away from the birds somehow will reduce the dirt issue

 

can you put a sheet of glass where the camera is now , and then mount the camera inside a box behind that glass ?

 

like the pic below only with the camera higher up and not pointed at the bright light source through their front door

 

you cant make the box too deep though otherwise the side of the box will fill the sides of your image.

 

[FarmerCharlie 0]

i thought you were hiding the cameras inside the bird house so you could watch intruders in the yard

 

.

but you are watching the birds inside....

Actually, I am doing both. I have two cameras outside looking at the gourds plus the one camera inside watching the birds.

I laughed out loud when I went back and re-read this. When I said I was doing both, by "intruders" I was thinking of intruders of the 4-legged and winged type--like raccoons and owls. You were thinking of a different type of intruder altogether. That's the type of miscommunication I have with my wife almost every day.

[FarmerCharlie 0]

can you write a message inside the gourd instructing the birds to lick it clean each day ?

I'm sure my birds can read just fine, but I'm not sure a bird's tongue would be very good for licking.

can you put a sheet of glass where the camera is now , and then mount the camera inside a box behind that glass ?

That is exactly what I plan to do next year. This year I did not have the time to find tubes with the correct threads and diameters, so I mounted the camera directly on the screw-on access cover that came with the gourd. I also want to find some sort of diffuser film to cover the LEDs. Something that would work a little better than the NexCare adhesive tape, which kept coming off in this humid environment.

[HeadsUp 0]

found a reference from a UK website where they suggest IR wont disturb the birds

 

http://www.naturecameras.co.uk/NatureCamerasBirdBoxWireless.htm

 

.

 

and a very nice article about Birds and colour spectrum

 

http://www.webexhibits.org/causesofcolor/17B.html

 

.

[FarmerCharlie 0]

whereas a standard screw in lens like you use now might take longer to get the lens obscured.

I thought you might be interested in what the camera looked like when I took it down to clean it this morning. This was after about four days. It's a wonder the camera even still works.

 

I'm getting a good image on the camera now. Only problem is that the birds have gone. They may come back at night for a few days.

Charles

[oldguide 0]

HeadsUp, where can i find the camera you speak of with a .0000 lux and $135?

 

there is cameras available that go down to 0.00001 lux and cost as little as $ USD 135 ...

 

thanks

[oldguide 0]

oooopps forgot the trailing digit '1'

[oldguide 0]

I meant '.00001 lux' not '.0000 lux'

[zmxtech 0]

using IR arrays from security cams would be way to harsh, What you need to

do is select the right low light cams that are IR sensitive. [minitron are good]

 

As for the IR lighting there nothing that low power and wide angle.

Easy to fix tho,

 

Option 1

For your Enclosure would only need say 4/8 LEDs in series

connected to a 6/12v power supply. buy the widest angle 3mm versions

-have to select low power LED's

 

Option 2 Build a PWM circuit to control the LEDs -then you can Dim them to suit.

 

Option 3 Buy a 'dimmable' PWM block and 1w luxeon with no optics

-easy solution

 

For dispersing the light use an old fluorescent light diffuser and chop it to suit -might only be 1x1'' in size

 

 

z