Few questions regardless cameras and software

[maysky 0]

Hi!

I'm pretty new to CCTV systems, so I have several questions. I'm thinking of using Webcamxp software with about 5-8 cameras. The main goal for the project - to view all of them online. Just video. No sound. Most likely I will be using comcast of quest connection.

 

-what minimum pc configuration i need to purchase?

 

-what compression I need to use to get best quality with minimum traffic?

 

-any suggestions on cheap/decent quality ip cameras (wired and wireless, for indoor mostly, outdoor and night vision will be great just as an option, and by cheap - i mean something not more then 100-150$). I was thinking to purchase some cheapest ones from Newegg (like Trendnet)

 

-and if maybe has been used Webcamxp - can you tell me if its worth it? I was going to use a PRO version.

 

Thanks a lot!

[Soundy 1]

Hi!

I'm pretty new to CCTV systems, so I have several questions. I'm thinking of using Webcamxp software with about 5-8 cameras. The main goal for the project - to view all of them online. Just video. No sound. Most likely I will be using comcast of quest connection.

 

No local storage, just remote viewing? What resolution are these cameras? We talking VGA, or megapixel?

 

-what minimum pc configuration i need to purchase?

 

It shouldn't take a whole lot, really... the heavy processing is all done at the camera, so all the computer needs to do is route the data accordingly. If you're not storing it locally, the reduces the hardware needs even more.

 

-what compression I need to use to get best quality with minimum traffic?

 

I think pretty much universally, you'll get the answer "H.264".

 

The only other concern I'd have is, how many users are you going to have viewing this remotely? Remember that every incoming connection will need its own bandwidth, and the more people you have trying to view it, the slower it will get for all of them. If you're doing this over a standard residential broadband connection, which usually has very limited upstream speed, and you'll have a number of remote viewers, you might want to consider the use of a media-streaming service as well - then your system only needs to push out a single feed to the service, and they provide the big pipe to the users.

[maysky 0]

Thanks for your answer!

 

Yep, just remote viewing. We are talking about VGA cameras.

 

Hm, so basically if one camera gives me 60 kbps upstream - it will be 600 upstream for 10 users - even if they are watching the same camera? Or you are talking about summary between all 5-7?

 

So - any suggestions?

[Soundy 1]

Thanks for your answer!

 

Yep, just remote viewing. We are talking about VGA cameras.

 

Okay, well that should be a huge data stream, especially if you're using H.264-capable cameras.

 

Hm, so basically if one camera gives me 60 kbps upstream - it will be 600 upstream for 10 users - even if they are watching the same camera?

 

Correct.

 

So - any suggestions?

 

Kinda depends on your connection. What sort of upstream bandwidth do Comcast and Qwest provide? Around here, our cable provider, Shaw, has different tiers of service with different upstream/downstream limits. I think 512kbit uplinks are the norm with most cable broadband services these days... I know some used to actually limit their customers' upstream connections to 128kbit, but I doubt that's the case anymore.

 

You'll also want to check on any usage limits they may have in place - some will cut you off if you go over a certain amount, or may charge extra. A business account rather than a residential one may have different limits. All that is questions you'd have to ask your provider. If you're comparing services, they're important points to consider.

 

If any of that is an issue, then it might be time to look at a streaming host - a site where you send them the feed from your system, thus effectively having only one "user" to each camera , and users then connect to them to view it.

[maysky 0]

Ok. Just tested my home speed. Im on residential Comcast service and I have 6-9 mbps upload in average. I just called qwest and they claimed that they have upload speeds from 256 kbps up to 1.5 mbps. Comcast looks quite a bit faster.

 

I do not think that those guys are charging extra for bandwidth.

 

And what streaming host you can suggest and how it actually works?? Can I set up my own streaming host? Plus I guess I have the same question about DDNS (if I can host/setup my own DDNS server), because most of IP's are dynamic now I guess?

 

So, if i do not have a DVR feature (video stored) - what would be the lowest configuration for a PC - Ram and processor speed?

 

I also have another question. I got a recommendation about Panasonic IP cameras (vs Trendnet cameras) - such as BLC1A (wired) and BL-C20A (wireless). Do you have any experience with those?

 

Another question - if it is possible to replace software preloaded on the camera (or maybe just change an interface and stuff like that)?

 

Thanks a lot for your time!

[Soundy 1]

Ok. Just tested my home speed. Im on residential Comcast service and I have 6-9 mbps upload in average. I just called qwest and they claimed that they have upload speeds from 256 kbps up to 1.5 mbps. Comcast looks quite a bit faster.

 

6-9Mbit upstream?? That's unheard of for upstream... how did you test it?? Try http://www.speedtest.net, they give you a link for your result, like this:

 

 

And what streaming host you can suggest and how it actually works?? Can I set up my own streaming host? Plus I guess I have the same question about DDNS (if I can host/setup my own DDNS server), because most of IP's are dynamic now I guess?

 

I haven't used any streaming hosts myself, so I can't really recommend one offhand, but if you have that kind up upstream, you shouldn't need one. As far as the IP, you could always check with Comcast if they provide static IPs as an option. Most broadband providers do, at a slight extra cost (I think around $10/mo. is the norm).

 

So, if i do not have a DVR feature (video stored) - what would be the lowest configuration for a PC - Ram and processor speed?

 

I'd say just about anything you can buy off-the-shelf these days should be more than sufficient.

 

I also have another question. I got a recommendation about Panasonic IP cameras (vs Trendnet cameras) - such as BLC1A (wired) and BL-C20A (wireless). Do you have any experience with those?

 

I don't... others here might.

 

Another question - if it is possible to replace software preloaded on the camera (or maybe just change an interface and stuff like that)?

 

Probably not. Or more accurately, it probably is POSSIBLE (flash new firmware), but you're unlikely to find different firmware ready-made. If you're capable of rolling your own, you can probably get an SDK from most cameras' manufacturers. Some MIGHT be willing to customize the interface for you, no doubt at a substantial extra cost.

[ak357 0]

Ok. Just tested my home speed. Im on residential Comcast service and I have 6-9 mbps upload in average. I just called qwest and they claimed that they have upload speeds from 256 kbps up to 1.5 mbps. Comcast looks quite a bit faster.

 

And what streaming host you can suggest and how it actually works?? Can I set up my own streaming host? Plus I guess I have the same question about DDNS (if I can host/setup my own DDNS server), because most of IP's are dynamic now I guess?

 

Another question - if it is possible to replace software preloaded on the camera (or maybe just change an interface and stuff like that)?

quote]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Check again with your provider

your upload (6-9mbps) limits sound way too high

they probably meant download

 

also keep in mind not every camera can stream to multi users

check with manufacture how many users can connect at the same time

unless u going to use streaming server as Soundy recommend

[Soundy 1]

Depending on the cameras' output, you might be able to use something like Windows Media Server from Microsoft, or VLC, to run your own streaming server...

[maysky 0]

i cant post the pic because i have been here not enough time, but you can view it - my result number is 506307463

 

I am pretty familiar with Upload and Download definitions - I have a web design company

 

I know that i can get a static IP, but from other side I can use DDNS 3rd party service to provide addresses like username dot mywebsite dot com - and it will look nicely other then just IP address.

 

Why I'm asking about minimum configuration, because I'm trying to minimize the cost - so I'm looking into barebone an custom build systems.

 

Most likely I'm capable of writing a new interface (I guess its java or something similar) - but maybe somebody already tried it - and i just want to do some research before I will do anything - so I really appreciate your guys answers here.

 

Ps.If somebody have any experience with those Panasonic cameras - let me know!

Thanks!

[Soundy 1]

i cant post the pic because i have been here not enough time, but you can view it - my result number is 506307463

 

Wow, that's impressive.

 

I am pretty familiar with Upload and Download definitions - I have a web design company

 

Fair enough!

 

I know that i can get a static IP, but from other side I can use DDNS 3rd party service to provide addresses like username dot mywebsite dot com - and it will look nicely other then just IP address.

 

Well, there are several options. If you have a static IP, you can just register a domain with any registrar and point it to your connection (they'll either need to provide DNS services, or you'll have to set up your own DNS, of course). Or there are a number of services that will work with dynamic IPs to keep a domain pointed at you.

 

Personally, I use one that does both: www.easydns.com. Registrar and DNS host with dynamic-IP support (they link to several third-party clients and scripts that can be used to update your IP on the DNS if it changes; I use one called DynSite). They cost a little more than the bulk registrars like GoDaddy, but their support has been outstanding over the 10 years or so I've been using them.

 

Why I'm asking about minimum configuration, because I'm trying to minimize the cost - so I'm looking into barebone an custom build systems.

 

Like I say, just about anything available off-the-shelf today should suffice... a bigger concern for me would probably be getting a reliable system, something with quality components and good cooling.

[maysky 0]

Honestly I was surprised with that speed too. But I guess I'm lucky in this case

 

Just talked to those guys - they are saying that I will get into interference with several sub domains. So I need to look into something else. Im going to try to talk to somebody from dyndns dot com - to see if they can do that.

 

I can get a reliable components - that not an issue. You are saying that that system will require good cooling? Thats a good recommendation. But I guess - as you said - most of stuff going on the camera side - so I do not need good graphics card and super fast processor in the system? And even 512mb of ram should work well (or should I go with 1gb or more)?

 

ps.what cameras are you using?

 

pps.just realized that those cameras using MJPEG - should I look for something different - that is using h.264???

[Soundy 1]

Honestly I was surprised with that speed too. But I guess I'm lucky in this case

 

Just talked to those guys - they are saying that I will get into interference with several sub domains. So I need to look into something else. Im going to try to talk to somebody from dyndns dot com - to see if they can do that.

 

"Interference"? Huh? "Those guys" who? Doesn't make sense... I run a number of domains off my cable connection using EasyDNS... lots of subdomains pointing at different locations too (client sites, using "clientname.lps-cctv.com" for customers with remote DVR access on cable/dsl connections). Have NO problems or "interference".

 

I can get a reliable components - that not an issue. You are saying that that system will require good cooling? Thats a good recommendation.

 

Just as a generic recommendation for ANY reliable PC. A good proportion of systems I see die, the primary culprit is heat, and the root of that is poor cooling. A cheap machine with good cooling will usually outlast a very pricy, high-quality one that runs too hot for a long time.

 

But I guess - as you said - most of stuff going on the camera side - so I do not need good graphics card and super fast processor in the system? And even 512mb of ram should work well (or should I go with 1gb or more)?

 

RAM is so cheap, I'd max it out, just because. But yeah, no special graphics capabilities needed - on-board VGA should suffice. All it's going to be used for is your local control of the machine, right?

 

ps.what cameras are you using?

 

pps.just realized that those cameras using MJPEG - should I look for something different - that is using h.264???

 

Yeah, we use the IQeye cameras. They do have a couple models that do H.264 (look at the Pro Line), although according to their site, it only does that at VGA resolution, which is kind of a waste of a megapixel camera. If you're only needing to broadcast at VGA (640x480) there are probably much cheaper cameras.

[ak357 0]

i cant post the pic because i have been here not enough time, my result number is 506307463

 

quote]

 

Woow

Is this "bits" ? or what

still sound to high to me

u have about 506 mbps upload ? hmm

[Soundy 1]

This is maysky's:

 

[maysky 0]

Soundy,

 

Those guys from - easydns

Hm, thats what exactly I need... strange. how much they are charging you for that? dyndns - 26$/year - cheeeeap!

 

512 and 2 gigs chip prices are pretty different but I will make sure that cooling will be proper.

 

So I really do need to be worried about H.256 with VGA camera?

 

 

hahaha!!! was writing this and seen that pic, that you posted! and i was just going to ask ak357 - where he got that number from!!! lol

I cant post pictures here yet, but if you will put that number in the speedtest link - you will be able to see that pic.

[Soundy 1]

Soundy,

 

Those guys from - easydns

 

Ahh, I dunno... only problems I've ever had with subdomains were caused by my own incorrect configuration of something.

 

Hm, thats what exactly I need... strange. how much they are charging you for that? dyndns - 26$/year - cheeeeap!

 

Domain registration and DNS service for most TLDs is US$35/year with EasyDNS. Does that $26 for dyndns include registering your own domain, or is that just with a subdomain, like maysky.dyndns.com?

 

512 and 2 gigs chip prices are pretty different but I will make sure that cooling will be proper.

 

Sure they are, but it's still cheap. I'm looking at the *cheapest* machine from my regular supplier here... 1GB RAM, 80GB drive... whole thing is CDN$245. Upgrading to 2GB RAM adds a mere $17 to the price. http://a-power.com/product-2515-458-1

 

So I really do need to be worried about H.256 with VGA camera?

Finger slip on H.264 there? For a single camera to the DVR, it won't make a big difference... start streaming multiple cameras to multiple users, it can really add up.

[maysky 0]

thats what they have:

www dyndns com services dns custom

just put two dots and 3 slashes. this rules about posting links - sucks...

i guess i can use it on my own domain - like you have - something like username maysky com

how many users you can have there on one domain? they allow only 75 ( but i guess i always can register maysky1 com.....

 

i wish we have something like that here in us - to build custom PC's...

 

I think that i will be streaming up to 6-8 cameras (tops) to the 20 users at the same moment (tops) for each channel

[Soundy 1]

i guess i can use it on my own domain - like you have - something like username maysky com

how many users you can have there on one domain? they allow only 75 ( but i guess i always can register maysky1 com.....

 

I haven't hit a limit yet on subdomains on EasyDNS. Don't know why there would be, unless it's to charge you extra for more. Why would you have separate subdomains for users??

 

i wish we have something like that here in us - to build custom PC's...

 

You probably do - where do you live?

[maysky 0]

Because I am going to use them on different user locations - thats why I need to separate those.

How many sub domains you currently using?? I have asked dyndns - if I can increase that 75 number on one domain - they said no. I do not know why not.

 

I live in US. Colorado state.

 

Hm, I guess I need to look a little bit more into streaming servers. Because it might be well worth just to rent a rack space and build one. And just use it with all locations. Plus I can use it just to host own stuff.

[maysky 0]

Any chance if you know any video streaming services online?

[Soundy 1]

As far as I'm aware, there is no theoretical limit on subdomains... or sub-sub domains, for that matter... like if you had sites in various areas across the country, you could have city.state.maysky.com. EasyDNS with DynSite to handle the dynamic changes should handle it all nicely.

 

So the idea is to have cameras in different user locations? That's really the only reason you'd need multiple subdomains.

 

As far as places to shop, if you're in any major center, there are probably these sorts of small retailers (we have literally dozens of them here in the Metro Vancouver area)... probably more likely to find them than any big-box stores in smaller towns, too. Otherwise, there are plenty of places to get custom systems done online... www.tigerdirect.com comes immediately to mind, although there are lots of others.

[ak357 0]

Soundy,

 

Those guys from - easydns

Hm, thats what exactly I need... strange. how much they are charging you for that? dyndns - 26$/year - cheeeeap!

 

512 and 2 gigs chip prices are pretty different but I will make sure that cooling will be proper.

 

So I really do need to be worried about H.256 with VGA camera?

 

 

hahaha!!! was writing this and seen that pic, that you posted! and i was just going to ask ak357 - where he got that number from!!! lol

I cant post pictures here yet, but if you will put that number in the speedtest link - you will be able to see that pic.

 

Sorry my mistake

I took your result number as Throughput number