Advice on new home install: Sony HQ1, IR Illums, 16ch DVR?

[Uter 0]

My brother's new house is almost complete and I already ran cat5 for all the cameras and IR illiuminators (if needed). I'd appreciate some help and comments about the cameras and DVR before I purchase. He's looking for smooth frame rate, good resolution, outdoor day/night recording, one camera in the main room of the house for day/night recording (large room, about 25x40), and remote access and email notification.

 

There is a gravel driveway that runs parallel to the front of the house, with the garage directly across facing the house with a large night light on a pole (it's not really bright light). The garage is about 60 ft from the house with about 80 ft of horizontal coverage needed. The backyard is about the same. My plan was to put two cameras on the front of the house and two cameras in the rear of the house. One camera on the front would aim left towards the front door/stairs, and one camera would aim slightly to the right to get his garage and driveway entrance. In the rear of the house the cameras would divide up the backyard.

 

I only have experience with my own setup in which I used LTS 1/3" CCD 42 IR LED cameras with Sony Super HAD chipset. These work perfect for my setup and I'm happy with the quality, but my brother wants to step his up a notch, so here's what I'm thinking of currently:

 

DVR:

H.264 Digital Video Recorder with DVD Burner

* Advanced H.264 compression records crystal clear images using less hard drive space!

* 16 channel H.264 DVR records at 60 frames per second at 720x480 resolution

* Pentaplex operation allows for live display, record, backup, playback, and network use at the same time

* Easily control the recorder through the front panel, mouse, IR remote, or through a client viewer

* Data can easily be backed up via USB, DVDRW, and network downloading

* Event triggered email notification by motion detection, alarm, and video loss

 

Outdoor cameras:

Platinum Series Day Night Ready to Install Camera

* Crystal clear images day or night

* Sony HQ1 chipset provides 480 lines of resolution

* Send video up to 2000’ using Cat5

* 0.01 Lux low light capability

* Built in Microphone

This day/night camera is color during the day, auto switches to black and white in low light conditions, and is sensitive to infrared illuminators. This camera also includes a built in video balun that allows you to send video up to 2000’ down twisted pair wire. Save time and money with the included powerful pre-installed, pre-adjusted 2-12mm zoom lens.

 

Indoor cameras: I haven't decided yet, but a dome HQ1 might be good?

 

IR Illuminator:

Weatherproof IR Illuminator

* Get infrared illumination up to 240 feet!

* Built in photocell controls IR activation

* IP66 rated weatherproof housing

* Operates on 12V DC

 

Power source:

Multiple Output Camera Power System

* 24 volt 4 amp 9 camera power supply

* Heavy duty, 24 volt, 4 amp, 9 camera power supply

 

I'm using video/power/audio baluns, so I hope there's nothing special for the 24VAC. I decided on the 16 channel DVR because even though he only wants 5 cameras initially, he might add more later, and it looks like for the price that's the only way I can get 30fps for each camera. The 8 channel units mostly have 120fps which would result in below 30fps per camera with 5+ cameras. I'm not posting a link but I'm purchasing most of it except the baluns from SC.

 

For anyone who can give me some advice:

 

Do you think those cameras will work well in this install, and if not, can you suggest something else in the same price range (~150-250)? I wouldn't be opposed to putting a cheaper camera by the stairs front and back and getting more expensive cameras for the longer distances.

 

Will I need illuminators and if so, more than one? The one I'm looking at is about $70.

 

What's a good dome camera for indoors and would an illuminator be needed indoors?

[Uter 0]

No one can give me any comments on this setup, specifically if I'll need IR illuminators and if the ones I listed are decent?

[peterbriss 0]

I will chime in.

 

The IR illuminator would be very helpful but not entirely necessary. But for only $70 why not have it.

 

I think you could do better on the cameras. The HQ1 chip is not Sonys best chip and 480 res is not the highest resoultion you can get. You may want to look for something in the Sony SuperHAD with 540 TVL if you dont mind spending a little more.

 

I am concerned about the FPS on the DVR. 60 FPS at 720 x 480??? That doesnt seem like very much? Also you really dont need to be recording at 30 FPS. 15 FPS is more than enough to get what you need. Even 7.5 would be plenty. Better to go a little lower on the FPS and increase the resolution.

 

Are you planning on just using fixed lenses in the cameras? Sounds that way, which is fine in a house. 4mm fixed lens will cover most of what you need. If you wanted to get a closer view of the garage you may want to go with a varifocal lens that would allow you to zoom a little tighter.

 

If you want to see indoors in the dark you can just use a camera that has some IR built in. You wouldnt need much. Just 12 to 24 leds would be plenty. I would only use the illuminator outdoors.

 

Doing the baluns with the power and video should be fine with the 24vac for the distances you probably have run.

 

Well thats my two cents.

[Uter 0]

Thanks for the reply Peter. I will check out the cameras you mentioned. As for the DVR I should have been more clear. There's several models of that same DVR, I'm looking at the 16 channel unit that has 240 fps @ 720x480. So for less than 8 cameras that would be more than enough. I realize 30fps isn't necessary for security purposes, but my brother wants it nice and smooth.

 

I guess I should look for cameras with varifocal lenses instead of fixed. I'm a little surprised about what you said regarding the IR illuminators. How well could those HQ1 cameras see in total darkness? I know the lux spec but what does that actually look like?

[peterbriss 0]

Thats good about the DVR. Just make sure you have enough storage. At 30fps it will add up fast.

 

Not sure what the picture may acutally look like. The quality would be better with the SuperHAD chip. I would check that the HQ1 camera also would have an Auto ICR (removable cut off filter). If it does not have that it wont work very well with IR any way.

 

Although when your dealing with IR and darkness its hard to get a real high quality image anyway.

 

 

 

Thanks

[alpine0000 0]

I realize 30fps isn't necessary for security purposes, but my brother wants it nice and smooth.

 

I thought the exact same thing when I first got into CCTV, and I set my DVR at 30fps for every camera. Once I realized how fast my harddrive was filling up, I decided to lower it to 22fps. I was surprised that I could not tell a difference in the recorded video quality between 22 and 30fps. A few weeks later, I decided to lower it to 18fps and see what happened with the quality. Again, I could not tell the difference. I now have it set at 15fps, and it's still nice and smooth. I am thinking of lowering the FPS again to either 10 or 12. 15fps is not choppy video at all to me. I watch people walking around in recorded video at 15fps and it looks smooth. I bet if you put it on 15fps, and told your brother it was on 30, he wouldn't know the difference. He would be happy with the results. Not that I'm suggesting that you lie to him, I'm just saying that that's how hard it is to tell with an untrained eye.

 

Good luck!

[katie1985 0]

If you like, I think a vandal-proof camera will be better, which can defend any fierce violence with metal housing.

[PHXCCTV 0]

Actually the Sony HQ1 chip is 540tvl. Its not HQ1 if its only 480, that's either a typo or misrepresentation The HQ1 is superior to the super HAD, but inferior to EX view (.003 lux)for low light applications. HQ1 has better backlight compensation, higher resolution, and native .01 lux without being IR sensitive. Any mention of a Sony super HAD with more than 480 tvl is because they add a DSP chip from another manufacturer (usually not a good thing). HQ1 is the only Sony CCD that includes Sony DSP to increase the resolution.

[Uter 0]

I'm having a hard time deciding on these cameras still. It's to the point where I need to order something this week and I have my doubts any of the cameras suggested will be satisfactory to my brother. SuperCircuits has a "Super High Resolution WDR Color Security Camera" with these specs:

 

* 1/3" Sony EX-View CCD chipset which produces 600 lines color resolution, 700 lines black and white resolution and 0.0003 lux

* 3D adaptive noise reduction filter removes noise from the image signal, producing a vivid and clear image

* Adaptive luminance control uses HSBLC (highligh supress back light compensation) to darken selected highlights and brighten darker portions of images

* Unique color matrix mechanism finds the optimum color matrix according to the change in color temperature, optimizing color selection in various lighting conditions

 

The unique technology of this high resolution WDR security camera allows it to capture and process images by quickly removing noise and adjusting images to appear brighter and clearer regardless of any lighting condition. This camera has a 1/3" Sony EX-View CCD chipset which produces 600 lines color resolution, 700 lines black and white resolution and 0.0003 lux low light rating. Powerful features include super high resolution, built in high quality wide dynamic range functions, 3D digital noise reduction filter, ICR day/night function, HSBLC and a broader color temperature range. This high resolution WDR camera comes with instructions, 1 year warranty and 30 day money back guarantee. Lens not included.

 

Price is $299. I think this camera would work well with an IR illuminator but none of these type of cameras appear to be made for outdoor and I can't find any info about the lenses. Does anyone have any reviews of the WDR version of this camera? Does anyone have a link to one made for outdoor?

[tomcctv 190]

Hi. uter.

 

i am in the uk. but i use dvrs from america take a look at the avermedia 16 way hybid it will do everything you ask at 30fps. but like alpine0000 says you dont need to go that high. 6 to 10 fps indoors and 20 to 25 fps outdoors if you need to catch numberplates. uter the best way for you to workout fps is the human eye can see at 13.5 fps so set everything to 15fps.

also have a look at cnb cameras (you also have a distributor in america) they do very good ir zoom cameras.

if you look on my site you will see a demo of the 16 way avermedia.

 

this system also takes most types of ip cameras so if he is only using 5 he could install ip cameras on other family homes or buisnesses and record them on his system.

 

http://www.cctvengineer.com/page3.html

 

and also here is a link to avermedia usa, call them and ask for a distributor by you

 

http://www.avermedia-usa.com/surveillance/productdetail.aspx?id=27

[PHXCCTV 0]

Aesthetically speaking, 24FPS is the current standard for full flowing video. Even at 15FPS, you can detect slight skipping in the motion of video.

 

As far as what the human eye can see, the newest LCD technology is 120 FPS (240hz) and there is a profound difference in image quality between that and standard 30 fps LCDs. Airforce tests have suggested humans can detect 220FPS.

[Soundy 1]

All that notwithstanding, high framerates are often overplayed in CCTV. You're generally looking to record "trouble" events to see what happened, not making movies, so while 20+ fps may "look nicer" it's often far more than is necessary simply to see "what happened".

 

For license plates, unless you're trying to capture fast-moving cars in a small space, 20-25fps is WAY overkill. FAR more important is a fast enough shutter speed so that the plates aren't blurred. If you get into systems that sync a strobe light (like photo radar/red light cameras) all you need is a single frame, synchronized to the strobe.

[Uter 0]

Thanks for all the info guys. I feel some got hung up on the 30fps topic. Sure for security purposes 15 is more than enough, but why not do 30 if you can? But really that isn't even a concern for me. The main thing I'm trying to figure out is a good camera made for outdoor that has good night capability, and lets you make out a person, not just a moving blob.

 

I can't believe security cameras are available at so many places yet there's almost no reviews of specific cameras, almost non-existent sample footage or screenshots, and most sites are really inconsistent with certain details (like on camera they show all the connections, another camera they don't show any connections...one camera they tell you the outdoor rating and voltage, and another camera they don't tell you). So i guess I'm going to have to spend $1200 on cameras and hope they work since there's no samples anywhere. What a world we live in.

[IRCCTV 0]

I don't understand why so many people buy cameras then buy IR illuminators.

 

I suggest using outdoor I cameras with IR integrated less wiring and often better performance.

 

 

 

Ascendent is a Canadian manufacture so almost all of there outdoor cameras are -50~55C allowing you to install them just about anywhere and offer Great night vision 50ft~ 8km)

 

For your reference I attached a chart comparing Ascendent's VIS-56IR-2910 and AP550 with Boch's EX27 and EX82.

 

 

I can seem to add attachment have no idea why

 

its 130kb and jpeg

[kensplace 0]

I don't understand why so many people buy cameras then buy IR illuminators.

 

I suggest using outdoor I cameras with IR integrated less wiring and often better performance.

 

 

For me, its because you have more control, you can specify the exact camera you desire, and the exact illuminator you require.

 

Not only that, but a seperate IR illuminator means you dont suffer from the problem inbuilt IR does, that of attracting insects etc to the lens due to the IR heat. Far better they are attracted to a seperate illuminator than the actual camera...

 

Plus, IR leds dont last forever, and I dont feel like binning the camera just because the IR fails - with a seperate illuminator, its not a problem, just replace the illuminator.

 

You can also position a seperate illuminator better, you have zero choice with inbuilt IR.

[zmxtech 0]

for sure, there are only a few that do integrated IR well.

 

Just because its dark does not mean you have to use IR.

Im finding white LED systems are far superior if covertness is not required.

 

with IR you have to have just the right amount to get the correct contrast, too little its noisy too much white out.

 

White LED's just seem more the better .

And you can still go semi covert with them using motion detectors to turn them on if someone gets to close.

 

tho a top notch IR system is till hard to beat -im still in both camps

there nothing better when a 'crim' gets half way down a driveway and see's the ominous glow of IR then turns and runs !

 

z

[IRCCTV 0]

To be honest I have never had a problem with insects.

 

As far as illumination a good IR camera will illuminate what the lens see's.

 

 

I just find is more expensive to do cameras and illumination separate and more work and don't find a performance increase as long as you get a IR camera that meets your requirements.

 

 

and if bugs are a problem just get an anti insect device not sure how they work i think they may use high pitch sound or some electric thing.

 

But that's just me but everyone one has there own preferences.

[rory 0]

don't find a performance increase as long as you get a IR camera that meets your requirements..

 

There can be a HUGE difference ... built in IR is good for budget IR jobs but to get really good IR setup you need to separate it. For example, you will rarely find an IR camera with built in IR at more then 30 degrees, while your lens may be fixed at 70-90 degrees. Additionally as mentioned you have control over where the IR beam is pointed and that alone can make or break the system. I spent years with Extreme CCTV's EX82s and while I found they blow away most other built in IR cameras, they still are not as good as box cameras with separate IR floods.

[zmxtech 0]

dude.... unless you live in space Insects are the number one problem for integrated IR cams. As is their poor IR power control -or lack of it.

 

Damm those space insects !

[rory 0]

dude.... unless you live in space Insects are the number one problem for integrated IR cams. As is their poor IR power control -or lack of it.

 

Damm those space insects !

 

yeah i forgot that too, the IR power control is almost non existent with most built in IR cameras ... EX82 gives you power but I doubt they were speaking about that type of camera.

 

as for insects all cameras here get them anyway, due to the heat emitted from their housing, small bullets get hotter so they get them the most, and ofcourse the IR. Regardless of cameras i can walk outside some nights and there are just clouds of insects hovering in mid air near a bush .. its crazy!! Cant live without bug screens here anyway, its just the way of the tropics, and oh yeah, iron bars too. But hey least we dont have deadly insects like in the land down under

[IRCCTV 0]

Yes I am talking about those kind of cameras I use Ascendent Cameras they are better then Extreme CCTV and more affordable.

 

 

They can illuminate up to 800 feet and yet if I put one in a cupboard they wont overexpose the IR works in tandem with the camera so there is no

under or over exposure. why I prefer them to illumination and cameras.

 

If you give me your email I have a chart comparing ascendents cameras with the Ex82 and Ex27 longer range, better image quality and 50DB rather then Extremes 48db.

[rory 0]

Never heard of them, can you post a link?

Also, Extreme has cameras that can illuminate for miles.

Then again, I cant make out a person 800' or miles away.

 

Ps. how do you know they are better then Extreme CCTV cameras, have you used Extreme CCTV cameras also?

 

if they can do this with a 5 year warranty and been around for 10 years then im sold:

 

[IRCCTV 0]

Im in Canada so very aware of extreme products.

 

Reason Extreme is so popular is they had the firs CCD (LXR) that worked well with IR light.

 

Since then Sony has but a lot of research and Sony CCD's now outperform the extreme LXR sensor.

 

Extreme products are now like 5 years old and our owned by Bosch so good Cameras but overpriced. Vummi Observ and Ascendent all offer greater distances then extreme. A product 5 years old will not offer the best performance.

 

 

And all of ascendent IR LED;s are hand soldered so that get 20,000 hour of bulb life for there standard series and 100,000 hours for there Terra series.

 

Don't get me wrong extremes product is a great product but there not the best and are very expensive .

 

 

and its easy to offer 5 year warranty when your markup is over %400.

Im sure if you want to pay $700 more ascendent will offer 6 year warranty.

 

 

But offer me a product with better range, longer LED life, Higher resolution and a quieter video signal and 40% cheaper and more unique product as they don't sell to online retailers ill

 

Exteme makes better illuminatiors

 

Ascendent makes better IR cameras

 

But that's just my view

[zmxtech 0]

I sell the range dude ... do you work for them ?

 

The Terra range :

http://www.zmx.com.au/longrange.htm

 

Hey whats this Sony sensor that beats LXR ?

[rory 0]

BTW the camera in that animated gif I posted was from a Sanyo Day night box camera with a standard AI lens ... worked great once adjusted properly