jtreibick 0 Posted July 31, 2009 This post is an attempt chronicle my very first design and installation of a CCTV system. My job calls for a 10-16 camera system with DVR for a convenience store that is undergoing expansion. It seems that my client is willing to spend the $$ necessary to meet his security goals and some of my suggestion (that I learned here) as well. After spending much time on this very helpful forum I am currently thinking of using the following equipment for my install: (1) ICRealtime Max16 DVR (2) PREEXISTING Ganz 3-9mm Varifocal Domes 12/24V (2-6) ICRealtime EL-720 3.3-12mm Varifocal Domes 12/24V (2-6) ICRealtime EL-400 3.3-12mm WDR Varifocal Domes 12/24V (2-4) ICRealtime EL-1000 Day/Night 12V (NOT IDEAL) (0-6) ICRealtime ICR-300H2 12V (NOT IDEAL) (1-2)15" Touchscreen Atom powered PC ($450) (Using for interactive spot view. If this works IC should sell something like this) Here is the store layout with camera placement[click to enlarge]..... The green cameras are the ones my client suggested to me, the red ones are the additional cameras I am suggesting. Some cams are represented only by a dot and an orientation line and there is also at least one cam in the basement. Also there should be a door connecting the beer and wine to the grocery section. On choosing ICRealtime... The company Like so many others, I have read (mostly) glowing reviews of the ICRealtime brand product here on this forum. I decided to take the plunge and apply for a dealer account. The fact that they are a one-stop-shop for both DVR, camera, accessories is very appealing to a first time installer like myself. Of the small amount of distributors I have talked to, their sales and support staff were the most friendly and knowledgeable. I was also impressed that they provide end-user support which is VERY important to me as I am not sure I will continue with CCTV and want my customer to be able to get support if I am gone. Although they are not the cheapest brand, they were able to offer me competitive pricing WITH a unified sales/support channel. I was also happy to find that they restrict web sales and protect dealer pricing. The Product I was VERY impressed with IC's online demo of their DVR system. The remote quality was excellent, the interface/navigation was clean, the ability to connect 10 users was awesome, and the 30FPS per channel was sealed the deal. I also appreciate their software based remote viewing. Despite being OEM brand of a Chinese manufacturer (which has been a point of concern on this forum) I estimate their gear matches the task and the budget of this project not to mention the good support I feel is behind it. On the cameras... For the indoors I chose domes to be mounted flush in the ceiling because my client wanted something that wouldn't detract from the store's 'friendly' atmosphere. I am choosing all varifocal lenses because this project is a renovation and the exact placement of shelves and other furniture is not set. For at least the two entrances I want to use WDR zoom domes to capture faces coming in an out. I really want to use WDR domes for any camera that captures a window, but I will have to feel out how high my client's budget is. Outdoor cameras I am still not sure what I am going to do. I think I will prewire my favored locations and play it by ear. Not sure how important the coverage is to my client, because multiple outdoor cameras increase the budget significantly. I know he wants at least two--Perhaps with heat (location is in New England) On the Wiring... 24V AC In my clients previous system, two of the four 12/24 Ganz domes died. Based on ganz's reputation, I suspect this has something to do with the 12v environment they were being used in and not the camera (perhaps thin wire gauge combined?) I am going to pitch him 24v cameras in my initial quote and explain the benefits of a 24v and lifespan. Hopefully he will see it my way. Of course IC and every other dealer gets defensive when you mention the 12v reliability issue and say 24v is for distance, but I consider it to be a real issue. Either way I am going to try to get as many cameras on 24v as possible. Cat 5e and Baluns I plan to use baluns to send the video over cat 5e. Their is an advantage I see in IP upgradability and lack of interference from fluorescent ballasts etc. I am slightly concerned hearing stories of when 'no baluns would work.' The cost and complexity may be slightly higher but every installer I have talked to in person says to do this Easier prewire too. Overall theory I want to somewhat over-wire this place as there will be no easy way to do it after the construction is done. (Perhaps some prewiring pics would help explain.) I plan to at least wire the places where I think cameras should be so incase the client changes his mind I don't have to make holes. I also plan to leave some slack in case cameras need to get moved. On the DVR... I found that IC's least expensive 'Max' line of DVRs has everything I want: 30FPS per ch, Pentaplex operation, simultaneous remote access logins, 4x matrix spot view video out, multi drive capability. It also has PC-like features like USB, mouse, VGA which appeals to me. ICRealtime told me that all of their DVRs have the same interface 'engine' including remote web access, dedicated software access and framerate (except D1.) Network Remote View This is a VERY important feature to my client. They plan to keep an eye on things in the each of the two offices using their PC's. Quality is fairly important. I am even considering using a networked Netbook Tablet PC (~$500) at the register for interactive spotview using the remote software. DVR Overall ICR's DVR has the best network view I have seen for the price and retails for about a thousand dollars less than my local distro's comparable Speco DVR. [This may not be a fair comparison] On the Accessories -16 port balun tranceiver -16 port 24V AC transformer -15" Touchscreen Atom powered PC ($450) (If this works IC should sell something like this) Conclusion After learning much on this forum I think I have come up with a solid gamplan for equipment and placement to meet my client's CCTV needs. I feel confident because ICRealtime's DVR and cameras have the features and support I need, while being a single resource for me and my client. I just signed up for a 'test drive' of DVR and Camera's listed above and will try to keep this thread updated with pics, etc. as things progress. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jtreibick 0 Posted July 31, 2009 POS integration. I am not sure what exactly my client has in mind for this. I think stamping the tender amount from the register over the video is reasonable, but am wondering if this is even necessary given that the POS system in place has logging of each transaction time and the DVR also keeps a log of the time. I wonder if each has internet synced time and that is good enough. Perhaps to catch a cashier stealing money a perfectly synced stamp and video transaction is needed. Don't know but I will look into this some more. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jtreibick 0 Posted August 8, 2009 I ordered some ICRealtime gear for testing and it just arrived. I have posted a web album of equipment pics.. camera image pics to come: http://s63.photobucket.com/albums/h135/jtreibick/icrealtime/ My initial impressions Max 16 DVR While this unit is labelled 'slim' (only 2u) it is by no means small and is slightly deeper than it is wide (19") With no assistance from the manual I fired this thing up and had several cameras up, running, and recording in no time. I ran into some trouble attempting to logon to the playback menu at about 6:30 eastern time after ICRealtime was closed. I immediately began to understand the limitations of the OEM product I was using after trying to sift through the unclear, poorly translated manual which clearly was not written by ICRealtime. After plugging in the mouse I was able to logon to the menu system which was clear, easy to navigate, and overall pleasant to use. Recording/Playback quality was excellent even on the default 'medium' quality setting. Both the live local and network playback had very little latency (an important requirement for my customer.) EL-720 Mini dome w/3.3-12mm autoiris lens 12vdc/24vac IC Realtime dubs the EL series as their professional level dome. This surface mount dome has a local video out and on screen menu with shutter, color, white balance control and more. At a quick glance I noticed the low light performance was weaker than expected. Also this thing got hot... almost too hot it seemed. I had this hooked up via a regulated 12v power supply I thought I might have reversed the polarity (I didn't) but could not troubleshoot the problem. Later on when I reconnected this camera the heating issue seemed to have resolved. This concerned me, but I could not recreate the heating issue I first experienced. EL-400 3.3-12mm WDR Dome 12vdc/24vac The wide dynamic range of the PIXIM sensor was immediately apparent when I pointed this towards a window. I noticed it had the best low light performance without IR of every camera I tried out. The EL-400's design makes it look like it is recessed flush mount camera even though it is mounted on the surface, very nice. The default autoshutter settings on this camera at a medium to low light made motion appear less crisp than on each of the other cameras. ICR-300H2 12V This camera heavy duty construction was a stand out feature. At first I thought perhaps I made a mistake and ordered an outdoor dome. This camera could be classified as a 'dome' but its really more like a "squished orange" bullet with a tilt surround covering. It seems more friendly than a bullet, but you can still see where the camera is pointing. The zoom and focus options are accessible via small screws on the front of the dome. Because this is in the value 'IC' line vs the elite 'EL' line there is no 24v power option, local video out, or adjustments of the sensor of the camera. I liked this thing, it outperformed my expectations for picture quality. ICRealtime was able to get me a deal that was comparable to the cost of the ICR-200, but this has zoom. EL-1000 Outdoor IR Day/Night Still need to test this one out. Solid bullet construction and zoom. Single detachable wire from the back. Overall The DVR met my expectations, the bad documentation was a little off-putting, but there was nothing that stuck out as being a show-stopper. The cameras were a mix of under and overwhelming. Camera images to come. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vtphilk 0 Posted September 13, 2009 Any update one your testing or ICRealtime stuff? I purchased a few ICRealtime items for testing and got a 4+8Channel DVR however I have not been impressed. I'm no cctv expert but I have had alot of trouble. I did only one install at a customer home and have been back to site about 6 times . I'll try to put together a list of my problems and progress but just wanted to see where you were at. I was impressed with the build quality of the EL-1000 however the PIXIM 430 I have just died (Outdoor wall mount). Not sure what the deal is but I went to site yesterday and it just dead. Power cycled the PSU and all. Other cameras on circuit working ok. Gonna go back with a ladder on Sunday to check it out closer. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
