IP camera Software

[thewireguys 3]

THERE IS NO KNOWN OR ACCEPTABLE PLATFORM THAT EVERYONE HAS AGREED OR WANTS TO AGREE!. If some of the industry leaders smarten up one of these days and come up with basic rules of conduct on platform, that will solve this issue once and for all!

 

Beta vs vhs / blu-ray vs HD dvd same thing as ONVIF vs PSIA as soon as they pick one NVR programmers can stop spending time on supporting cameras and work on new features which will reduce costs.

 

Lets address this above scenario and not that it is a good one anyway. Exacq is asking to have someone to spend $1,000 just on the software side without any consideration for the cameras cost, the cost of the server and the storage... Where is the benefit for anyone with simple common sense to even consider this option? Do you think really that this price range should be acceptable for ordinary Joe or this is a pricing for mid-range or high-end customers? Do the math and tell me if this makes any sense... I do not think so. Basic cost structure for this package forces someone to consider complete package cost for more than $2,000... compared to most cases such package cost using analog solution is less than $1,000... Where is the benefit to consider this software or any other out there that are using this type of cost structure? Where are the benefits if someone please can explain?

 

Also you can use ACTi cameras there software is free but I wouldn't use it. You could also use Mobotix and there free software. But your stuck using there cameras and there limited features.

 

 

This is even more interesting now... Are you suggesting that to use Exacq software, there are "installation" and "upgrade" costs and that the end user now have to pay for these services? You and other know this product inside and out, thus give you an opportunity to sell it, plus installation costs, plus IP cameras costs, server and storage hardware, etc... Exactly what will it cost to have cheapest four IP cameras package price to include all these products and services? Over $2,000? over $3,000 or more?

 

I have two types of customers. IT/network admins and the average Joe. The IT guys install the software themselves and we setup the software. Average Joe has a hard time turning on there computer let alone installing updates. Can the average Joe install Linux? I think it will be along time before people will install and setup there NVR software them themselves. We are professionals and they hire us becuase of that.

 

You can get ACti megapixel indoor color only cameras for $225 or non-megapixel for $175.

 

So $1200-$1400 without labor for a ACTi setup. But once you use Exacq or other software you wouldn't use the ACTi software. You get what you pay for.

[DoorMan 0]

Why no love for LuxRiot? ~$1000.00 and unlimited cams? You guys doing ptz tracking and such?

 

Sorry I don't get it...... It works and works well. Better than a couple others I tried out.

 

What gives?

[fredjohnson 0]

I believe as the ONVIF standards get closer to a finished product, we will see IP cameras and recorders that we can mix and match regardless of manufacturer. The same as we see now with standard CCTV equipment. The IP software I prefer works with the cameras I sell and service. It is easy to install and it does the job. As more competition emerges, the price will be more reasonable and performance will increase.

[robert 0]

Why no love for LuxRiot? ~$1000.00 and unlimited cams? You guys doing ptz tracking and such?

 

Sorry I don't get it...... It works and works well. Better than a couple others I tried out.

 

What gives?

 

Luxriot is very nice and easy software and superb value for that money.

[robert 0]

we will see IP cameras and recorders that we can mix and match regardless of manufacturer. The same as we see now with standard CCTV equipment

 

Definitely. IP has been around just for about 7-9 years compared to analog minimum 20. As time goes, it will happen.

[CCTV_Suppliers 0]

Why no love for LuxRiot? ~$1000.00 and unlimited cams? You guys doing ptz tracking and such?

 

Sorry I don't get it...... It works and works well. Better than a couple others I tried out.

 

What gives?

 

Where can we download to test this package? When you say "unlimited cams", what are the restrictions? Is it Windows or Linux based? What really makes this package to stand out vs. most others?

[robert 0]

Why no love for LuxRiot? ~$1000.00 and unlimited cams? You guys doing ptz tracking and such?

 

Sorry I don't get it...... It works and works well. Better than a couple others I tried out.

 

What gives?

 

Where can we download to test this package? When you say "unlimited cams", what are the restrictions? Is it Windows or Linux based? What really makes this package to stand out vs. most others?

 

www.luxriot.com

If you dont activate it you have few restrictions: no remote connection, just 1 camera, video archieve max 5GB.

 

Restrictions for unlimited cams - none. Just hardware. Windows based.

 

Price/value. Its VERY easy to install and setup, user friendly interface.

[CCTV_Suppliers 0]

In one of my posts in this thread, I mentioned that there is a software solution available from Open Source Linux community. It is in its very basic format at the moment and works with few IP cameras, but it is not ready for prime time.

 

What if few people can get involved and expand with this free open source solution and have it available from free download for anyone who can use them? Over period of time and with engineering efforts, we can make this package more valuable with more features and functions. I understand that most do not have engineering background to work with C++ or other languages to make changes or to provide basic service for such package, but what if a company allocates resources and makes changes as the industry needs?

 

The way Linux community worked in the past and even now is based on independent input and fixes coming from so many different sources, which at one point does make it to the final cut. Why not have such opportunity for our industry available where everyone's contribution from the end user to the engineers working on it could help the entire industry?

 

I understand the wars exist on which platform we all have to follow and it is based on what major companies fight for. This way they can dictate what we should and should not do. I am rather offering an option to our industry that give all of us an option for such manufacturers to listen and follow us rather we follow them. If there is a new technology of cameras coming into the market, then such manufacturers of this new technology have to adhere to what we all agree on and not what is important to their bottom line...

 

I strongly belive that we, the integrators, the distributors, the dealer and even end user should reconsider our position in this industry. Without our support, the major have no say or dictation what is good and reasonable. Rather and since IP based solution are here to stay, why can't we all take the control on what we want and what our customer need rather what this companies dictate from their dark corporate rooms?

 

It is my personal intention to break away from the pack that runs at the direction where such manufacturers dictate or the speed that we have to run. I prefer to have a choice on the most important part of our security offering, the software, that is the center piece of our future ventures in supporting our customers. I also think that with combined effort we all can do better to serve our own needs compared to what the manufacturers can through to our direction as a solution.

 

This type of effort is for our own use... this could involve an association of some sort that takes software engineers, the integrators and end users to provide tremendous pull of resources and knowledge that could and will produce better and more desirable solution for us. The basic model is contribution of time and knowledge and not a monetary. Once such project is in place, then we all can evaluate what we want and what our customers ask and with combined knowledge, have such software modernize and to improve over time. Any change or any idea is a good one and there are no bad ideas. What the end cut of the software will have is what majority wants and overrule what major manufacturers think.

 

This could be very ambitious and yet very profitable for anyone who is involves. Nobody can sell the software or monetize its content - it belongs to the community. Rather, you can sell the documentation, the CDs, the support whatever price you choose to sell. Or, your customers can download themselves and install it.. and if there are problems, you can intervene for a fee that you see appropriate and acceptable by the customer to have such solution functional.

 

I am interested to find out if the members of this forum are up for this type of task. If you had this choice and was part of much larger scale of the entire community, will you participate and will you put time and effort to improve such product? Any idea is a great idea, but again the final cut could have what majority wants.. Someone can pickup the source code, make a change for their customer and price what they think or customer is willing to pay, however such change or modification must be reported back to the community - something similar is how Linux community evolved over so many years.

 

At one point of time we, the industry, can dictate what we like from the major manufacturers or any manufacturers and force them to follow our pack and comply what we want and if they choose not to comply, guess what happens... I think industry will be better going forward with solid solutions coming from us, all of us, and without any favoritism with any specific manufacturer. This is not a new concept, however it is for our security industry and I only hope that I/we all can get together on this and make our own mark without any interference from any manufacturer's perception on what we actually need.

[DoorMan 0]

I'd like to see something come of what you are describing but I do hold little hope it will ever be. Here like other places we like flavors, the more the better. The more flavors there are the more innovation there is. Don't take this the wrong way because I do respect what you are describing but....I see it as the video surveillance equivalent to "Obama Care". There will be only bad things that come out of a grassroots, eliminate the competition SW package that is offered free to all who would use it. The other SW companies would suffer the wrath if it ever got going and would drop like flies.

 

And then there was one............(crickets)

 

For now we have all different packages from low to high cost, low to high functionality and OEM freebies abound. I think with enough research you will find the happy medium you seek.

 

Check out LuxRiot along the way. I think it is very close if not exactly what you are looking for. www.luxriot.com. Maybe PM a member named "Roman" he helped develop it and is a very helpful to all. Microsoft awarded him this year for being just that...

[CCTV_Suppliers 0]

I'd like to see something come of what you are describing but I do hold little hope it will ever be. Here like other places we like flavors, the more the better.

 

Hey bud, I understand your perception... When something is too good to be true, it always is right? Well, It is actually more real than you may think. There is a distribution of such software from Linux community in the last few years for now and only recently we started really take a look at the code. What makes this option very interesting is the fact that it already comes with supported list of manufacturer cameras, Axis, Panasonic and few others.. Just there is not enough people involved to put their input what is good and what should change for better. I know that we are allocating three in-house software engineers to work with this community and we liked very much what we seen - the code is very robust and well written (C++ mainly) and that it requires major GUI overhaul... It may take time for the first real cuts to be available for general view, but I am very confident the outcome will be very desirable. Heck, if you had a choice to talk to the community about a new features and functions that you personally like, it will not be overlooked - rather put in the order of implementation...

 

The more flavors there are the more innovation there is.

 

There is no competition here.. This is an combined effort for anyone who is interested like all of us, the integrators, the dealers and end-users... and no hidden agenda behind it at all... I guess whoever comes up with more ideas will create competition for others?... Competition is a great idea when companies compete for better price and better products.. but if the software is free for everyone, where is the competition when it is available to anyone that wants it? Of course, this will be a major competition channel against all the software companies and major manufacturers who are accustomed to charge huge amounts of money for their "software", but if we are creating competition with this distribution, then that is a great thing for everyone.

 

Don't take this the wrong way because I do respect what you are describing but....I see it as the video surveillance equivalent to "Obama Care".

 

Very funny to compare this idea with Obama Care... Wow.. The only difference of course is that we all will work together and not depend anyone to control us... Wouldn't that be a great thing? Not only it is, but very realistic today!

 

There will be only bad things that come out of a grassroots, eliminate the competition SW package that is offered free to all who would use it. The other SW companies would suffer the wrath if it ever got going and would drop like flies.

 

Oh well, poor software companies... why sudden change in hearts when there is a possibility to teach them a lesson... This industry and any other industries are based on competition and if such concept does offer a competition to them, then so be it. This means that they have to treat us better and charge less or else... Again, don't you think by just waving this option on their face will help all of to get more? Will this not be an option for them to consider to join instead of folding their business models? Many companies, Red Hat, Suse and other made billions in just supporting open source called Linus. They or anyone can not charge for the software, but you can charge for the support, supplying physical CD software and documentation... May be it is time for them to reconsider their position in this market...

 

And then there was one............(crickets) -

 

For now we have all different packages from low to high cost, low to high functionality and OEM freebies abound. I think with enough research you will find the happy medium you seek.

 

I personally evaluated at least a dozen of such solutions - free software that only works on respective manufacturer IP cameras to ones that start their software cost at $25K and up to $250K range. What makes this swing of cost of such software is not that the more expensive ones are better, rather they started much earlier and have much higher costs and think that they can get away to continue charging this high numbers. Most fall in the mid-range pricing averaging $250 per connection and even then, it makes no economical sense when you add all the necessary hardware around such solution. Many of our customers prefer to stay with existing analog solution until this dust settles down and I wander why that is? Of course, cost of such solution makes no economical sense now or anytime in the future regardless who wrote the paper... Do you remember the Axis paper about justifying the high cost of their cameras and the software that basically went to nowhere? We did ask the to justify and provide a proof of their major claim (I will find their article soon and post it here) and they refused and the only statement that we received is that they are a corporate entity and do not have to justify any claim that they publish - how convenient...

 

Check out LuxRiot along the way. I think it is very close if not exactly what you are looking for. www.luxriot.com. Maybe PM a member named "Roman" he helped develop it and is a very helpful to all. Microsoft awarded him this year for being just that...

 

Can someone put me in toch with "Roman" please. Very much interested to talk to him. From your comments, it looks like he may be a great fit into this possible option, if he is interested...

 

I received a several calls from various manufacturers who are participating in this forum and I tell you, they are not happy about what they are reading... Well, get use to it. If we, as an industry, come together and put our thoughts together and come up with a solution that will work at any level without any costs, then we dictate them what we want, rather what they think we should use.

 

Thanks for your comments and taking the time to respond and I hope others may consider doing the same

[DoorMan 0]

Heh! I thought you may get a kick about the Obama Care comparison. I'm glad you took it as it was intended. No political inference...

 

It's just that to say or plan to start a Health care affiliation (or any type of affiliation) and design it to be a "no cost to you/us" alternative does not make sense in a free market society. Unless of course the goal is to socialize the entire sector and we all (I trust) know the cost of that. That usually fails or is stressed so badly that it becomes inferior to other offerings as evidenced in history. Consumers become enamoured early on and semi-addicted to the immediate financial benefits such as freebies provide. There are always negative impact to those that actually don't mind paying a fair price for a fair product or service. Around 360 and back to the "flavors comparison".

 

It seems to me, if I understand correctly, that you take exception to all or most of the offerings on the market today. You feel there is a better way to do things. You feel it can done more cost effectively (maybe even no cost). You feel it may be able to be offered free to all who would use it. You feel it would be short/long term maintainable in management, growth and self regulation.

 

That would be one H_LL of a "business" (but not really) model C_S. And a major undertaking if I may say so. I admire your, (read all of yours), perserverence if this takes shape. I know I have a hard enough time just trying to scratch out a living and enjoy the family type things. The end user will buy what they can afford and at the very end of the day vote with the wallet. But if this is available for free who in their right mind would buy it? How could it be a good and profitable product to bring forth to a customer in solution form as a line item on an invoice?

 

About PM's.

If you go to the top of the mainpage you will see a list of choices. One of them is member list. Go in there and find the member you want to contact to send him/her a PM.

 

Seriously, good luck with this!

[CCTV_Suppliers 0]

Hey bud, no hard feelings of any sort.. Just sharing views and ideas here...

 

About (20) years ago someone named Linus Torvalds, who started the Linux ball rolling in 1991. He was sick and tired of Microsoft OS issues and decided to come up what he called it a "free" OS software for anyone who cares to use it. He never thought what it will become and his motives were not to turn Linux into what it is today. Rather, people cought up with the concept and the idea and took it in so many directions and created a huge industry with so many companies that compete against each other selling.... a paper, the CD hard copies of the software and the most importantly, the support.

 

Now, just because it's Free, doesn't necessarily mean it's free. Think "free" as in "free speech," not "free beer," as we in the Free Software/Open Source community like to say. In a nutshell, software that is free as in speech, like Linux, is distributed along with its source code so that anyone who receives it is free to make changes and redistribute it. So, not only is it ok to make copies of Linux and give them to your friends, it's also fine to tweak a few lines of the source code while you're at it -- as long as you also freely provide your modified source code to everyone else.

 

There is a specific distribution that started few years ago that was targeting to provide "free" software for DVRs, which of course used capture cards, etc... Now, many that I know were using this software and tying them with known cheap capture cards and it worked very well...

 

The newest released version works with IP cameras and they work fine as was intended.. Not feature rich, no bells and whistles no special applications running, etc... it is bare bone and yet very well written platform that need much needed help to go to the next level... That community encourages donations, but does not require payment for anything that they produce... It is part of the much larger Linux community, thus the support and the knowledge in such environment is well positioned.

 

Now, we have seen and have this code and we have been studying it for a while now. What makes it very interesting is that this distribution already done the most important part of the design - all the modules are there and the code looks great... It is not user friendly (as the initial Linux OS) nor there is much of support behind it. It is not something you can download today, install on your computer and it works... It is in it raw stages and requires major GUI overhaul and then start adding features and functions that makes other software companies screaming their lungs out.

 

My intentions are not to push any of such software companies out of business nor damage any of their positions in our market. However, I can tell you that once the first real release is out there, it will start pushing them around - and over period of time and with enough information flowing from members and anyone who wants specific features and functions for such platform, future versions will provide it...

 

How to make money with such solution is always will come up... Do not go too far and ask the same question on what happened after the introduction of the Linux in the computer industry.. and how many companies prospered and continue making money and competing against each other for customers... I anticipate that in the near future you probably will start seeing different named distributions of the same software and with some changes that will make such software to look different and may be even operate slightly different.. but such distribution changes must and will be reported back to the community for further fixes and upgrades so that everyone will benefit and not few privileged ones...

 

When people hear word "free", they all run and do not want to believe it. I do not see any negative impact using such solution for our industry for 99% of the users excluding the manufacturers who will be forced to change their strategies in how they operate. What is wrong with that if such concept may find itself more acceptable than "paid" versions out in the market? With combined knowledge and expertise behind of such solution is based on Linux community, then there should be no issues going forward.

 

First real cut of this solution could be available as soon as in the next 90 days or less... Of course I expect too many negatives about it and criticizing its functionality... I only hope that such criticism will provide tangible information for next or future versions will address and fix or even better, add into their content.

 

To prove this concept and its viability, we decided to invest on this idea with three in-house top notch engineers being part of the community. We will cover all the costs associated on all these efforts. I can tell you that talk is cheap, and if someone is putting their money on line for this type of an idea, someone must have a good intentions and not a lot of cheap talk.

 

More will follow on this at later times... but any comments are better than no comments.

[daver 0]

Hi All,

 

New to the forum, but have gotten a tremendous amount of info here in the last few days.

 

Thought I would throw my $.02 in on this subject of Open Source - I have been working with Linux and OSS for almost ten years. My company does a lot of OSS work in the IT field. The OSS concept is truly revolutionizing the software industry, but the ideas have reached far outside of the computer/IT/software industries - the concept of community driven, collaborative work based on the free and open exchange of ideas with peer review is powerfully changing the way people are approaching and solving many challenges in the world.

 

That being said, looking to Open Source to provide the ultimate and free NVR/DVR software package might be a bit optimistic. To have a really strong OSS project takes thousands of code contributors and thousands more users willing to beat their heads against the wall finding bugs, contributing ideas and documentation, etc. From a first glance, the CCTV market seems like far too much of a niche industry to spawn this type of community.

 

Again, just my $.02...

[Biphase 0]

Downloaded LuxRiot....its ok. Seems like it has alot of JPEG support via rtsp or http....and the system requirements are very specific, but only reminds me of a dell.

 

Genetec..ONSSI or somethin like that would choice.

[Twilo123 0]

If you are talking about zoneminder this is my reference on the ipvideomarket website where there is the discussion about 'free'. it is the only series software that is close to 'free'. it is still supported by donations and i go into the reasons of why these 'free' types of software exist. if it is not subsidized in some manner then it is something of open source and that has +- to it for commercial based applications. if you live in a bubble and control everything then it will be fine but for a mass appeal it can be an issue.

 

There is this IP camera software that was developed by Linux community and it is available free for anyone who needs it. It is very simple and yet powerful platform. We are looking at it and testing right now. The great part about this is not that it is "free", rather give all the code to manage and change as needed, as long as you can share such change. It is very promising, as long as someone has the engineering background and is willing to tackle code to make changes as necessary. What if such software becomes a norm of industry - supported by the community for the community and this way you literally give such for free and make money on selling hardware alone. Not a bad idea, but we will see how this software will work...

[Twilo123 0]

Even then you will have millions of cameras still on the market that use legacy standards that will need to be supported. Also all of these 'standards' are extendable so manufacturers will still try to put in their own stuff and differentiate themselves from rest of the crowd. Things will become simplified for basic stuff but that just leaves time to develop high end functionality which will possibly make it much more complicated in the end. they are really just trying to 'dumb' down the initial integration like iphone's did for the mobile phone market so there is mass adoption.

 

The prices will come down when the ONVIF vs PSIA battle is over. Because right now every time a new camera comes out or firmware update is released the NVR software has to come out with a patch to support the new/updated cameras. It's not like there making Tonka Trucks, there programmers constantly have to be updating code. How are they going to pay there programmer without some form a recurring revenue.

[CCTV_Suppliers 0]

Hi All,

 

New to the forum, but have gotten a tremendous amount of info here in the last few days.

 

Thought I would throw my $.02 in on this subject of Open Source - I have been working with Linux and OSS for almost ten years. My company does a lot of OSS work in the IT field. The OSS concept is truly revolutionizing the software industry, but the ideas have reached far outside of the computer/IT/software industries - the concept of community driven, collaborative work based on the free and open exchange of ideas with peer review is powerfully changing the way people are approaching and solving many challenges in the world.

 

That being said, looking to Open Source to provide the ultimate and free NVR/DVR software package might be a bit optimistic. To have a really strong OSS project takes thousands of code contributors and thousands more users willing to beat their heads against the wall finding bugs, contributing ideas and documentation, etc. From a first glance, the CCTV market seems like far too much of a niche industry to spawn this type of community.

 

Again, just my $.02...

 

daver, great observations and it comes from your experience I am sure and thanks for sharing it with us.

 

I will not dispute the fact that there will be much less participants in this area from the community - the drive to involve for any sort of compensation may not be there.. However, in our last count, there were over 100+ members contributing to the code and in the last few years that we followed it, the progress was slow and yet very steady. However, it takes a will of an industry to think the necessity of such solution and not driven by any corporate appetite... rather, contribution of time and resource in engineering is what will help this nitche market tremendously.

 

We have been working with both FreeBSD and Linux community for over 20 years and learned much from them rather from any individual company. Many problems were solved with combined efforts and resources and it is not a coincidence that combined OS platform rule in the server web backbone industries.. Of course many much larger companies, i.e. IBM and few others make steady financial contributions, but amount they spent is minuscule compare if they had to fund the entire project themselves.. I guess it serves their purpose to tap on a resource based on much larger community and they solve major industry problems for cents to the dollars...

 

My firm observations is that this security industry needs a consortium of similar community focused more on what we all need rather what serves manufacturers appetite. It is long overdue for this to happen and I firmly believe that the time is right. Such community does not ask for any monetary compensations for such effort, rather contribute time and engineering resources if available.

 

Great ideas always come from actual users of any products and never from dark rooms of any corporate offices.

[CCTV_Suppliers 0]

If you are talking about zoneminder this is my reference on the ipvideomarket website where there is the discussion about 'free'. it is the only series software that is close to 'free'. it is still supported by donations and i go into the reasons of why these 'free' types of software exist. if it is not subsidized in some manner then it is something of open source and that has +- to it for commercial based applications. if you live in a bubble and control everything then it will be fine but for a mass appeal it can be an issue.

 

Twillo123, you are absolutely correct on the zoneminder... have you ever used it with capture cards or with IP cameras in its raw format and if so, what do you think?

 

Present market condition for the security market is what I call it a vacuum or you call it a bubble... What you see or hear is what is available in such controlled environment and very few actually looked outside of such vacuum for anything else new or even better solutions. Very small part of larger Linux community did and continues developing such solution, as they and we firmly believe that such solution is and will be a very desirable for larger audiences.

 

I did say in one of my posts in this thread that we did commit to allocate three top notch software engineers for this community. We learned tremendously by such association with them and continue to learn more daily. The actual code is solid and requires some cleaning and much better installation protocol. It requires a much better GUI and easy navigation, which at the moment lags. However... if the foundation of such software code is solid, then you can build whatever you want and call it whatever you please... as long as such newer builds and changes get reported back to the same community.

 

Nothing different is offered here that has not already is in place with Linux community. Any new idea in this market always receives tremendous negative feedback and that is the way its always has been. It does not come from the fact that we all are not intelligent and do not understand what is right or wrong, rather comes from what manufacturers have fed us over the years believing that we have to depend on them without any questions and mainly pertinent to software solutions.

 

I totally disagree that what manufacturers create serves our needs. We know better and we know what our customers want and need. End user do not need substandard software that must be paid from top to bottom and side ways and then continue paying for such software going forward as newer technology equipment comes forward. Rather I offer better angle - a platform that manufacturers must follow while developing their hardware solutions. This may sound too aggressive, but in reality once such platform gets on its feet, then the manufacturers either have to change their software charging models to compete or find means and ways to put as many road block as possible for it not to succeed.

 

Here are some the major problems they (the manufacturers) will face... First, compliance with such platform, rather than non-standard of compliance exist today.

 

Second, new much broader competitor that is backed by much larger engineering community - they can not allocate the dollars to have such engineering power.

 

Third, hardware compatibility list that should comply what we want - at the moment each manufacturer has their own proprietary formats and compressions and no single format that is an industry standard.

 

Fourth, software platform that they can develop their own distributions and then their own hardware... once such hardware becomes available to the market, then it should (or better) work with such platform.

 

Fifth, compete on the quality of the hardware and not on a proprietary formatted software. They stand a chance to loose market share by staying with their limited platforms - rather they should focus on producing better hardware solutions...

 

and many others... the list is too long to share, but I think you get the drift...

 

If the industry chooses not to be open minded and not to participate and stay on the mercy of such manufacturers, then do not blame anyone but to ourselves with all the problems that they introduce and the prices that they charge. I always belived and still do today that we must have a choice and it is not based on how much we spend. Rather, learn from all our mistakes and learn what other industries have done and evolved over time and with much better results. Think about this for the moment - if Linux or FreeBSD did not come forward, we would have been at the mercy of Microsoft and fewer much smaller operators (Novel comes in mind) and then industry would not have prospered as it has thus far. What is the difference here?

[bruce 0]

Hi

 

I agree software company from other country is not for free, but so far as I know most of the IP camera producer in China provide the software for free! even some of them are trial version for 3 month periods, I think this does not make any sense, we are IP cam producer if you need something, or have interest to know more, just contact me

 

Bruce Lee

[CCTV_Suppliers 0]

Hey guys, here is the latest on this development...

 

We have been watching and observing what the boys and the gals in ZoneMinder have been building throughout the years. Some the releases were substandard, some actually were very decent. We also made engineering contributions for this very large open source members team (by my last count, they have over 12,000 members). We also know that less than 10% are actually solid software engineers who allocate their free time to fix software problems or make changes based on requests or otherwise.

 

I know that we are communicating directly with over 100+ of these engineers and coupled with three in-house engineers, we should have our first distribution available in few months. Funding for this venture already is in place and we aggressively looking at brand new GUI parameters that should make this software much more user- friendly than it is at the moment.

 

This distribution does not have clear path of implementation nor any "centralized" authority to allow or disallow what works and not. Rather everyone contributes, uses parts and pieces and reports back with the results... What is even more interesting is that over 90% of the member are actual users and there is no end to sight on recommendations and features that they want such distro to contain. One of the main questions that one of the members addressed in this thread was the potential number of users that are limited for any progress and I can tell you that if nothing else, there are over 10,000 potential end-users at the moment and more if such distro works better and provides more versatility.

 

Some questions that I'd like to address to the members in this forum - what OS do you prefer for this distro to be available? I know that it "works" kind of on Linux and Windows, but what is the preference here? As matter of fact, it does not work just in any Linux distro and requires very specific distro to take advantage of all the features, memory management, etc... and Windows version has problems on which Windows it can or will work... so there are too many questions at the moment that we are trying to sort out.

 

Any comments will be appreciated.

[ak357 0]

Hey guys, here is the latest on this development...

 

We have been watching and observing what the boys and the gals in ZoneMinder have been building throughout the years. Some the releases were substandard, some actually were very decent. We also made engineering contributions for this very large open source members team (by my last count, they have over 12,000 members). We also know that less than 10% are actually solid software engineers who allocate their free time to fix software problems or make changes based on requests or otherwise.

 

I know that we are communicating directly with over 100+ of these engineers and coupled with three in-house engineers, we should have our first distribution available in few months. Funding for this venture already is in place and we aggressively looking at brand new GUI parameters that should make this software much more user- friendly than it is at the moment.

 

This distribution does not have clear path of implementation nor any "centralized" authority to allow or disallow what works and not. Rather everyone contributes, uses parts and pieces and reports back with the results... What is even more interesting is that over 90% of the member are actual users and there is no end to sight on recommendations and features that they want such distro to contain. One of the main questions that one of the members addressed in this thread was the potential number of users that are limited for any progress and I can tell you that if nothing else, there are over 10,000 potential end-users at the moment and more if such distro works better and provides more versatility.

 

Some questions that I'd like to address to the members in this forum - what OS do you prefer for this distro to be available? I know that it "works" kind of on Linux and Windows, but what is the preference here? As matter of fact, it does not work just in any Linux distro and requires very specific distro to take advantage of all the features, memory management, etc... and Windows version has problems on which Windows it can or will work... so there are too many questions at the moment that we are trying to sort out.

 

Any comments will be appreciated.

 

What is projected price for camera licence ?

[CCTV_Suppliers 0]

No camera license fees, no software fees, "0", zero..., nada, nothing ... nobody can sell the software, as it will be avail for anyone and everyone who cares to use it... the only way to make any money will be to sell installation, support, documentation and hard copies of CD... besides of the servers, storage devices, IP camera hardware, cables, etc...

 

Nothing different when you download any linux distro and use it... and if you need support, then you can contact respective distro producer, who will charge for support - or address it in a forum for an advise...

 

The actual code is excellent with C++, Perl, PHP and Flash... We will be addressing many of the problems that this existing distro has and basically cleaning everything that we see. In addition, most of its existing features and functions (video analytic for one) will be working better and easier to program. The platform is solid and has been used by many in the past as DVR software working with few known capture cards. But recent releases actually concentrated on working with most known IP cameras... very difficult installations, not an easy GUI to operate, etc...

 

Our intentions are very easy and simple.. take what already is there and improve as much as possible and continue development going forward. By accessing more than 100+ engineers in different parts of the world, we can do some good service to our security industry and address all the known and even unknown problems and issues that at the present moment are being overlooked by many.

 

Anyone can download the code and work with it and come up with their own version distro... as long as such changes are reported back to the community for everyone's use... It worked extremely well for Linux community and I do not see any reasons for it not to work for our industry. The only people who may be against this concept will be the manufacturers of similar software that charge very high prices or die hard users of certain software makers... like Genetec, Exacq, Onssi and others.

 

We have nothing against these companies, but we, as a security industry, believe that we can do better for the entire industry. At least we could have a uniform platform for most of us to easy to adhere and future technology equipment to be incorporated with such platform. Imagine this - if a manufacturer wants to bring a new camera technology, at the moments either they have to sell them with their own software (closed loop solution) or beg other software manufacturers to add such hardware on their support list. However, if the same manufacturers of such IP hardware had a known standard platform, then they can add such support to the same platform and all we have to do is to take them as a "patch" to existing software... at least in the concept that how we see it, possibly something similar how Linux distros receive hardware compatibility list from manufacturers. Manufacturers peddle to add their drivers within Linux distros allowing user to get them as an update or a patch...

[Twilo123 0]

unless you plan on selling prefab boxes good luck. even then support is the critical issue here as like you have mentioned this is a publicly available software that anyone can slap together. it's just that not anyone can slap it together and even then supporting it can be a nightmare.

 

the windows version is horrible IMO and not even close to ready for prime time. the linux is the heart of the development for zoneminder and as i mentioned above it is very difficult to pull it all together. half of the software is scripts. you would need to really develop a good GUI front end to run all the scripts on the backend if you want this to work right.

 

i definitely wish you the best. zoneminder is a solid product that's been around for awhile but it's not for the faint of heart. and let's face it most cctv people are not heavy IT personnel especially when it comes to linux. even the linux people on the boards over there have tons of issues. that's why the board there is so active. it mostly people having trouble with the distro. not that zoneminder is not solid but it just goes to show how difficult it is to setup, run, support, etc.

 

in my opinion you are better off developing a really solid front end/GUI and reselling that piece. if you want to add support as a re-occurring revenue model that great and all but if you do the front end right and charge for that you shouldn't need too many support calls. people will get tired of calling all the time for support if it is too complicated.

[CCTV_Suppliers 0]

Any comment about this concept is better than no comments at all..

 

Everything you stating is very well know facts and there are no disputes or ever will be about its present condition. Dependent which distro of Linux make a difference on the stability of the software and that is where we have been focusing at the moment.. There are solutions already in place and nothing that the ordinary user may use... however...

 

Every criticism I see, it is a clear indication for us the direction that we have to go. If this product had no problems, then I am sure everyone would have started using (I know quite of few people using a revision that uses capture cards and they are very happy with them). You definitely hit the nails in the head for each assessment you show and clearly only a mad man may consider involving with a platform that is not user friendly, very difficult to install and to maintain... At the begining, I can see that this distro will start working on some sort of Linux OS (more will come at one point of time) and the chances are good that this new software will come with specified operating system... In case of Microsoft, we are discussing right now if we even want to entertain this OS... Industry will dictate at one point of time if we should consider Microsoft OS...

 

In a nutshell, I am taking this challenge and allocating enough resources to get there... Based on all our preliminary studies, it will take roughly three months to have our version of the distro with better GUI and better overall use experience. Our main background on operating systems are Linux and FreeBSD and more importantly, C++, Perl, etc... We fully understand where the problems are and focusing on fixing them one at a time and it is not a simple task, rather very tedious and yet very rewarding.

 

I tell you, once we get our first cut of this distro in place, I already know that we will have even more complaints, as most of the end users or dealers are already tuned what works for them... so it will be very difficult to "change people's perception". However... every time that we see or hear a complaint or any criticism, that is our information and the feedback to go back and fix, modify, change or overhaul such system, so that it eventually could serve the majority of the users and not selected few.

 

I very much appreciate your comments and keep them coming. I may not have all the answers yet... but I can tell you that the ball is already in the motion and will not stop until we achieve this goal...

 

I do not intend to charge for something that does not work nor provide a bogus service. All this comes together only if the users are happy with the results. If they need help to install, then we (all of us) can intervene, but if it is very difficult to install, then that is a task for out team to fix this problem.. The revenue stream may be avail, but it is not a guarantee... Too many variables in this formula as of right now. If the product works as intended, easy to install, easy to assign the IP cameras, easy to navigate and operate overall, then every time we hear a complaint, it is our (the community's) responsibility to fix it.

 

I unticipate that there will be three different flavors of this distro - light, standard and extreme... Light version could be used for homeowners or small shop operators that do not need more than lets say 4 to 6 IP cameras, a server with built in storage. The standard version could target medium range customers who may use up to 64 IP cameras package. The extreme version right now is looking at 256+ possible IP connections ( I expect someone now asking if we are considering bandwidth usage, etc)... The challenge is not if these are possible, the question is if it is desirable to have these different flavors of this distro. Our observations has shown that it is possible for our industry to have such different flavors of software, similar how 4-6 channels exist at the low end, the 8-16 channels in the middle and higher channels for high end... But, all these assumptions can change if our industry tells us otherwise... and that is the beautiful aspect of this concept... Industry gets what they want and not what manufacturers have been training all of us to believe.

[rory 0]

what OS do you prefer for this distro to be available?

 

Windows XP or nuttin!!

 

actually if you can do it in DOS that would be cool too