Need a New DVR Card for PC (upgrade from QVGA to VGA/D1 Rec)

[FranciscoNET 0]

Hi,

 

I am searching for a new DVR Card for my PC DVR Server, it can be either PCI or PCI-Express as long as it meets my requirements.

 

Here are my requirements:

1. MUST RECORD at full D1 resolution, or 640x480 VGA as minimum.

2. Must NOT record using a proprietary video formats, such as the ones that popularily ends with *.dvr or the self playing *.exe or the *.umv , etc formats I want a DVR software that can DIRECTLY record to an industry standard AVI format or MPEG, it can use the H.264 codec for better compression and space savings. (with K-Lite codec packs I can then play back these H.264 recorded videos on any computer or even create DVD's using Nero Vision our of my footages)

3. Must have remote access capabilities.

4. Must have a Playback speed greater than 8x (I have seen players with speeds of 4x as its max -- good luck searching for 1 hour+ worth of footages at 4x!)

5. The DVR Card must be cost effective.

 

I must reiterate, I do not want the software to record using proprietary video formats, I do not want to have to DEAL with proprietary formats. I will only go as far as H.264 that NERO Vision seems to understand fine. I do not want to spend 2 hours converting 15 minutes of footage from proprietary source to AVI, for me that is plain stup*d, why not record into an "understandable" format in the first place rather than giving all that pile of head aches to the user??

 

My current "old" card that I have here, runs using the QX2006.exe software that records directly in an AVI format that even Windows Media Player directly understands (after running mpeg4codec.exe or K-lite Codec Pack on the target PC, then NERO Vision recognizes it fine). The only problem is that it records at 352x288 QVGA and its now time for me to move to 640x480 or D1 recording res, given that fact that all of my cameras are 540TVL and would like to take full advantage of all that resolution. But I want to do it the same way, using open standard video formats, just as QX2006.exe has been doing it perfectly fine all this time, when a police officer comes to me, the officer doesn't even need to wait more than 7 minutes after making the request (regardless the requested duration), I always have the DVD done and burnt into a format that can be played back in a standalone DVD player. If I would had to convert from a proprietary video format first, It would have take hours, the officer would not probably wait for all that time for me to be done, it would have been a hassle, and that's what I dont want. I am moving to a newer technology, newer resolution, and of course, better speeds, I am not about to fall 8 years behind during the process by adopting a proprietary crap that is only meant to take away my speeds and time of doing work. -- I do lots of evidence extractions, and proprietary would be a nightmare for me.

 

My budget for this card is $200.00 max

If there is multiple offers, I will go for the lowest qualifying one, in terms of price.

 

***Your price must be competitive

[cctv_pro_installer 0]

I am in the same bandwagon as FranciscoNET. I also need a PC DVR card that records in full D1 resolution without the use of proprietary formats. I purchased 3 cards on Ebay and all of them came with proprietary formats, and like in this poster's case, the police comes over to request evidences all the time because my area is a really bad area and the last card, even though it was recording at full D1, was proprietary, I think it used a software made by ESunStar. Not only did that software hid all of the video files from me (like if I were some soft of noob) but it recorded everything into a "dvr" file, and when I needed to convert 10 minutes of video it took over an hour. The card that I have now was one that I purchased from a store called JAYSO around my area and has a software called DIGIVUE, it records using the DivX format at 320x240, I hate half D1 resolutions, but at least I get to create my own DVD's with Roxio (same situatio as the original poster) and most omportantly, I dont have to let my officer sit waiting for hours for 30 minutes of videos that he wants!

 

Oh by the way, the last time that I was using the ESunStar DVR Software/card the police officer almost wanted to take my DVR server with him with the charge of being able to extract the evidence much faster than I could. I told him that he was not going to extract the evidences anymore faster than what I could because only this stincky software understand this format and needed to be converted first to AVI! That was an insult to my professionalism almost to watch a police officer take my DVR server with him like if I didn't knew what I was doing all because of a stupid software devices to only record into a format that the entire planet doesn't understand but this software!

 

I want an open format video capable DVR card that records in full D1 resolution. I will double the poster's budjet to up to $400.00 shall a seller appear!

 

Thank you!

[Soundy 1]

Most of these cheap cards don't do hardware encoding (part of why they're so cheap); thus, the video format is not a function of the card, but of the software and/or codec used. Simple solution: try different software, or look for a setting in the software you have to tell it to use a different compression format.

[cctv_pro_installer 0]

The card that I have now is a Digivue card, I paid $85 for it and its a 4 Channel. Digivue has the following quality settings: 160x120 and 320x240 and the ultimate one and 320x240 is the one that I am using per each CH.

The card that I had before (the ESunStar one) has 720x480 as the highest recording resolution and that's the one I had. For codec, I had the following options: MPEG or H.264, I had first MPEG chosen, then saw what format the software was recording and it was a file ending with .dvr then I changed it to H.264 and again, the file that software was recording was .DVR. My understanding was that regardless what codec I used, the resulting video was going to always end with .DVR I dont know if the software was encrypting the resulting video or if it was recording using a proprietary variation based on the codec I picked to save it as an *.dvr, but that surely did pissed me off. Dont get me wrong, I did enjoy the full D1 resolution I was getting with ESunStar software, man those details were clear crisp! but the only problem was that when I needed to convert 5 minute of video to a format the officers could understand as well as the rest of the world, this damned thing took almost 40 minutes!! Let alone when the officers needed 1+hour(s) of footage.

 

I searched all the menus that came with the ESunStar software and I saw no way that I could disable its propritary madness. Why can't the software record directly to a true H.264 standard or any other popoular formats like DivX, Xvid, MPEG, AVI, etc, etc?? I could then take the 5 minute video, stuff it to Rovio DVD Creator, and within 2 minutes of less have a dvd playable disc created?

 

I HAD to go out, purchase the DIGIVUE card, that records in HALF D1 resolutions only, DOWNGRADE my self from the sharp clear D1 quality, JUST get my a** out of the illogical proprietary world, and that was ONLY when I had the unpleasant encounter with the officer that ALMOST took my DVR with him to have it processed in his station because the ESunStar software wouldn't process the conversion much faster. Before that, I told him that I could give him an executable player that he can run on his computer to play back the *.dvr files, but he said that the lady at the station doesn't want anything executable because it might contain a virus, that the video must be a standard compliant video and that if I cound't produce such videos that my DVR then needed to be handed over for processing to a Digitan/Analog/Digital conversion. But thank goodness the officer did waited the couple of hours for the software to be finished. THAT was my last dealings with proprietarism!

 

If it wasn't because of Digivue, I would have gone back to Time Lapse VCR's because at least when I used to use VCRs I didn't had to spend an eternity to produce a 5 minute video! and I could have duplicated a 24 hour (recording in a T-120 tape) in just 2 hours, thats a 16x speed of duplication. When I wend digital, I was expecting more speeds, better features and enhancement, but with ESunStar, that took me wayyyy back 16 years when you had to wait an eternity to just do about anything!

 

Now you can understand why I get mad when I hear anything that comes close to the term 'proprietary' and I fully share the sentiment of the orignal poster.

 

In Ebay, the seller should state if their DVR cards uses proprietary formats or not, Let them say its PROPRIETARY when its PROPRIETARY or MPEG/DIVX/H.xxx OR XVID when its MPEG/DIVX/H.xxx OR XVID,

proprietary variations of MPEG/DIVX/H.xxx OR XVID that can only be understood by their unique executable software doesn't count and I will just complain that the ad wasn't properly described when the product ships and the facts are then understood like many customers are doing lately.

 

I need help LOCATING a seller that sells full D1 DVR card WITHOUT proprietary. If I could have it the DivX, H.2xx, MPG way, then fine, but dont FORCE me into a format that only your "household knows" that I dont want to use.

 

Knowing that converting a 5 minute proprietary video takes over 40 minutes, I dont know why these types of cards are still being sold, WHY are customers letting their faces get slapped by DVR Card Manufacturers with proprietary formats? Is it that they just install their DVR and do nothing, then nothing ever happens that warrants they retrieving their videos? And 2 to 3 years later when they need to retrieve a video is when they finally realize that everything was just being gibberished with some proprietary crap that may need a player that used to be provided by a website which domain just expired and such software is no longer available and that customer is left with nothing?

 

Any sellers out there? Any website I can go to? Any Ebay listings I can check out? I need a qualifying card fast as 320x240 doens't pretty much show things as clear as what D1 used to.

[FranciscoNET 0]

In Ebay, the seller should state if their DVR cards uses proprietary formats or not, Let them say its PROPRIETARY when its PROPRIETARY or MPEG/DIVX/H.xxx OR XVID when its MPEG/DIVX/H.xxx OR XVID,

proprietary variations of MPEG/DIVX/H.xxx OR XVID that can only be understood by their unique executable software doesn't count and I will just complain that the ad wasn't properly described when the product ships and the facts are then understood like many customers are doing lately.

AMEN!! " title="Applause" />

I couldn't have said it better my self.

 

In today's world, where everything needs to be described properly, Ebay sellers should take their time to properly analyze their product to make sure that how they are describing it properly fits the image of the product the customer is about to receive.

 

I too had my temporary joy of being able to record at D1 resolution, but then I had my utmost displeasure of having to deal with the proprietary format (mines too ended with *.dvr and took an eternity to convert), then I went back to Ebay and purchased another card. This one, the Ebay seller said its VGA quality, fine, so I though that I was going to be recording at 640x480 lol little did I knew that 640x480 was only the DISPLAY resolution, not the recording one which currently its 352x288 QVGA. At least I took my time to send a message to the seller to ask him if this card was proprietary or not, and he said that it wasnt to I purchased it. The QX2006 software it self is super stable, I can take footages and with a program I have called NERO VISION I can burn my DVD's and just hand that over to the requesting party in less than 10 minutes, if they request 4 hours of recordings, in less than 16 minutes I shall have my DVD playable back product burnt, I bet no one can top that with their fancy, but proprietary software.

 

cctv_pro_installer: I am currently scouring the internet in search for a qualifying vendor and if by then no one has given us a satisfactory answer as to where to go, I will let you know, but I promise that I will make 100% sure of all the facts if I get to find the info before I let you know. (its hard to search when manufacturers thinks that proprietary and non-proprietary is the same thing thus they dont immediately say, when its not true), you tell me if a horse and a vehicle is the same thing, they both can take you to places, but only the vehicle can do so in 200+MPH (that's my taking when comparing proprietary (horse) vs non-proprietary (vehicle))

[Soundy 1]

For codec, I had the following options: MPEG or H.264, I had first MPEG chosen, then saw what format the software was recording and it was a file ending with .dvr then I changed it to H.264 and again, the file that software was recording was .DVR. My understanding was that regardless what codec I used, the resulting video was going to always end with .DVR I dont know if the software was encrypting the resulting video or if it was recording using a proprietary variation based on the codec I picked to save it as an *.dvr, but that surely did pissed me off.

 

Did you try simply renaming the files to *.MPG or *.AVI? Often the file, video, or compression formats themselves are standard, the software just tacks on its own extension rather than one Windows will recognize (side rant: when will Microsloth ever get a better way to identify files than with a lame three-character extension?? OS/2 was doing it far better with Extended Attributes, 15 years ago).

 

Now you can understand why I get mad when I hear anything that comes close to the term 'proprietary' and I fully share the sentiment of the orignal poster.

 

Proprietary isn't necessarily a bad thing, if the vendor properly supports it. Vigil systems, for example, use a proprietary AZTECH variation on M-JPEG... but when you export video in that format, you can have it include an installer for the codec and player (once the codec is installed, the video will play back in just about any video player). We have customers give those discs to the police all the time and have rarely had an issue with it (just once, that I can recall, was there a problem running it on a machine with locked-down permissions).

 

Similarly, Capture DVRs export in a proprietary "Minibank" storage format, where the exported video is encapsulated in an executable file with its own standalone player... so in essence, you just "run" the video.

 

In Ebay, the seller should state if their DVR cards uses proprietary formats or not, Let them say its PROPRIETARY when its PROPRIETARY or MPEG/DIVX/H.xxx OR XVID when its MPEG/DIVX/H.xxx OR XVID,

proprietary variations of MPEG/DIVX/H.xxx OR XVID that can only be understood by their unique executable software doesn't count and I will just complain that the ad wasn't properly described when the product ships and the facts are then understood like many customers are doing lately.

 

Well, that's one of the risks in buying from eBay, isn't it? Buy from a reputable manufacturer/vendor and avoid those kinds of issues. Nothing like buying something from a supplier halfway across the world, finding out the thing doesn't work as advertised, and finding the shipping to return it is more than you paid for the thing in the first place!

 

I need help LOCATING a seller that sells full D1 DVR card WITHOUT proprietary. If I could have it the DivX, H.2xx, MPG way, then fine, but dont FORCE me into a format that only your "household knows" that I dont want to use.

 

Not hard to do. Vigil is represented here (3xLogic Systems); you can use their cards, or their software will work with a variety of third-party cards. Video Insight is here as well, their software will record in M-JPEG, MPEG-4, WMV, and possibly others now (I haven't really looked at it since v3.0). Those are the two I'm familiar with - several other manufacturer and vendors are represented here as well - AverMedia, GeoVision, etc.

 

The catch with all of these is that you'll pay substantially more than you would for those cheap eBay cards... but hey, you get what you pay for, and that includes software features and after-sales support (both VI and 3xLogic have excellent technical support).

 

 

Any sellers out there? Any website I can go to? Any Ebay listings I can check out? I need a qualifying card fast as 320x240 doens't pretty much show things as clear as what D1 used to.

 

www.3xlogic.com

www.video-insight.com

[FranciscoNET 0]

Thanks soundy,

 

If 3xlogic or the other supplier that you listed doesn't employ proprietary formats into their cards, then I will purchase it from them provided that it records in full D1 resolution, but it has to be reasonably priced as well (the seller is not going to pay his rent just off me).

 

In my experience, I have seen sellers price their 4CH DVR Card for up to $1,200 Where do they get their prices from? These cards run with the BTTV 8x or Conexant 9 or 10 bit chip set, the same chip sets the ebay sellers are selling them for about 50/100 dollars rough.

 

I will be in contact with your suppliers to see what are their prices first.

 

Thanks anyways

[cctv_pro_installer 0]

soundy, I tried renaming the file extension to every video format I could possibly think of and it wouldn't play like that. If it were that easy, then it wouldn't take 40 minutes to just convert a 5 minute proprietary clip, it would just be a question of changing a file extension. I even tried to use a diferent software, but my beloved manufacturer had "locked" that card to his software and thus no other software would not work (according to them), there was not other compatible drivers for it as well, I was just then holding a paperweight.

 

I also took a look at your vendors, so far it looks promising, I liked the sharp quality demo remote access from the 2nd one, just that I hope the price doesn't blow me away from my chair when I contact the vendor! Just like FranciscoNET said, me too wont pay the seller's rent. I am a professional and know better not to get ripped off, but I can't comment yet about your vendors as I haven't called them yet.

 

About proprietary video formats, as long as its not proprietary to the point of my Roxio DVD Creator software not accepting it as a valid format, its fine with me. The minute the software prevents me from creating a real DVD disc or forces me to export videos below real time 1:1 speeds then I woud be complaining. There is a reason why I chose the PC way rather than the standalone DVR way, one is the ease of adding new DVR cards when expanding in the future, and the other is the features the PC way gives me, some of them being better processing speeds (a waiting time of 40 minutes to process a 5 minutes video is not a better speeds), being able to create custom playable DVD's when even the need arises (proprietary doesn't allow that let alone macintosh users being able to see that video)

 

soundy, can you certify that either 3xlogic and video-insight doesn't use proprietary formats (MJPEG is OK, as long as its the real thing, and not a proprietary variation of it that needs the company's player for it to work) -- I would have to assume, and please correct me if I am wrong, that if the video plays back under Windows Media Player (if I have to install a codec first) that I will have no problems using my DVD Creator software to create a standard playable D1 720x480 DVD Disc? or that I can use NERO to create a SVCD compliant playable back CD??

That's what I am looking for.

[FranciscoNET 0]

cctv_pro_installer: I think that if the video is proprietary to the point of it needing only a special codec to be installed causing the video to be played back with nothing but Windows Media Player, then this means that VLC, Nero Showtime, Windows Media Classic, Power DVD, etc shall be also to play it back if Windows Media Player can read it. Therefore, in my case, the most likely thing that would happen if I try to use my NERO VISION software to create a DVD "movie" disc is that nero would automatically "convert" it to a proper MPEG2 DVD video format before burning that disc, (with a fast processor the waiting time is almost nothing). If I found a D1 card that only required a special codec to be installed before the video can be played so it can properly "interact" with my other tool sets that I paid a premium for it, such as NERO VISION, etc. Then I wouldn't be complaining and spending countless of hours searching for my D1 qualifying DVR card.

[Soundy 1]

Thanks soundy,

 

If 3xlogic or the other supplier that you listed doesn't employ proprietary formats into their cards, then I will purchase it from them provided that it records in full D1 resolution, but it has to be reasonably priced as well (the seller is not going to pay his rent just off me).

 

Once again, these cards don't do hardware encoding, so the record format is dependent on the software. Vigil and Video Insight systems actually both use the same ComArt-based cards, and while the VI software is locked to VI-supplied cards (or was the last time I tried it), the Vigil software is not - in fact, I once had a Vigil DVR where the card died, so I dropped in an equivalent VI card, and it just worked, no updates or drivers required. Nice.

 

In any case, with Vigil, they use AZTECH by default, which does require its own codec, but the installer for that codec IS included. It also provides the option for MPEG-4/H.263 recording, but AZTECH works exceptionally well so I've never bothered switching.

 

Most Video Insight systems I've installed, I've found WMV9 works best all-around, so I've been using that... completely standard, playable on any Windows Media Player 9 or later.

 

In my experience, I have seen sellers price their 4CH DVR Card for up to $1,200 Where do they get their prices from? These cards run with the BTTV 8x or Conexant 9 or 10 bit chip set, the same chip sets the ebay sellers are selling them for about 50/100 dollars rough.

 

Same chipsets... not necessarily the same cards. Supporting components, construction quality, additional functionality, may all be different. But in most cases, I suspect, you're paying mostly for the software. The stuff you get with most of the eBay cards is pretty limited in functionality, often clunky in operation, poor in design and layout, and pretty damn thin on documentation (and what there is, is probably written in really bad Engrish). And forget about any kind of technical support with most of them for that price.

 

With the likes of Video Insight and Vigil, you're getting solid, advanced software that's under constant development, is well-documented, and has excellent support backing it up. You have a toll-free number you can call at any time to get help where you can talk to real, knowledgeable techs without having to decode a thick accent. You have people who will respond to your emails and even accept suggestions for future features.

 

Those kinds of things aren't cheap for the vendors to provide... and that's where a some of the money is going when you buy a good package from a reputable vendor.

 

Edit: case in point! http://www.cctvforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=105624#105624

[FranciscoNET 0]

I would like to give thanks to Soundy for at least trying to give us answers in regards to the type of software we are looking for. However, in my case, I have found the prices for the two suppliers to be prohibitive for our situation, and any other sellers I have researched that seems to closely be selling almost what I am looking for, also their prices are too prohibitive. I even got an email offer from another vendor promising to give me a 4CH DVR card that records in true H.264 or MPEG2 format for $1,100 (I didn't even bothered to reply) so therefore I wont commit to them.

 

I have made a few undocumented discoveries regarding my current DVR software "QX2006.exe" that greatly perfectionizes the video quality of the recorded images. Since this is a bit off topic for this thread, I have started a new thread as a general information so it can serve as a good help for other QX2006 users. The name of the thread is:

"QX2006.EXE USERS TIP, Undocumented Features Disclosed"

cctvforum . com/viewtopic.php?t=17772

[Soundy 1]

Well, I listed the two I'm familiar with... most here will tend to do the same.

 

As you've found though, you really get what you pay for, and when you're looking for a certain combination of features AND quality, you're generally going to end up in a certain price range. As I already pointed out, a good portion of this cost goes to after-sales support - updates, technical support, etc. - it's not JUST the hardware and software costs.

[FranciscoNET 0]

As I already pointed out, a good portion of this cost goes to after-sales support - updates, technical support, etc. - it's not JUST the hardware and software costs.

 

The software and the card is what I needed, not the technical support, other people might need the technical support, but I think that prices should be ranged according to the individual needs, for example, there should be at least two price sets, one that includes the software, card and technical support and the other that includes just the software and card. Because in my situation I am a professional computer engineer, I know how to figure things out my self (just like I did with the QX2006 software I am currently using), I dont need to or should be forced to pay a hefty premium for tech support if I dont need it. For people that knows what they are doing, almost 100% of any cards available out there is installable without scientific struggles (just insert that PCI device, install the software, drivers, format 2nd partition, set software to record to that partition, set quality, motion detection, etc etc pretty much can be done by any one) the only technical support is making sure that you make sure that your mainboard is Intel chipset based for maximum compatibility and stability.

 

You may also claim that paying software developers are too expensive, but I dont think thats a good excuse either to charge too much, because unlike a vehicle that needs to be fabricated from scratch per each sales for each individual, a software just needs to be coded once and then it can be sold a million times (copies)

 

Who ever developed QX2006 did a masterful job, the software is extremely stable, the DVR can stay on for months without requiring a reboot, it doesn't hang my system and that software was included in a card that I paid no more than $80.00 (shipping is included there)

[Soundy 1]

As I already pointed out, a good portion of this cost goes to after-sales support - updates, technical support, etc. - it's not JUST the hardware and software costs.

 

The software and the card is what I needed, not the technical support,

 

So you've already figured out why the software crashes if you go over CIF resolutions, and fixed the problem?

 

other people might need the technical support, but I think that prices should be ranged according to the individual needs, for example, there should be at least two price sets, one that includes the software, card and technical support and the other that includes just the software and card.

 

A lot of products use the pay-for-support model as well (see posts elsewhere on Linux-based, open-source solutions). I suspect most vendors of CCTV applications have found that model doesn't work for them or their customers.

 

Because in my situation I am a professional computer engineer, I know how to figure things out my self (just like I did with the QX2006 software I am currently using), I dont need to or should be forced to pay a hefty premium for tech support if I dont need it.

 

That's great, but you're a rarity in this business. I've been in IT support for close to 20 years, I find 95% of others I deal with in the CCTV industry are clueless when it comes to computers and are of the "I just want to click a button and have it work" ilk. System developers don't get paid catering to those of us in the 5% have-a-clue bracket, they have to cater to the other 95%.

 

You may also claim that paying software developers are too expensive, but I dont think thats a good excuse either to charge too much, because unlike a vehicle that needs to be fabricated from scratch per each sales for each individual, a software just needs to be coded once and then it can be sold a million times (copies)

 

Someone still has to update it regularly, to keep up with changing markets... issue patches to support newer hardware... drivers to support new/other platforms... if you're a software developer who expects to just release a single version of your application and then get rich collecting royalties on it for the rest of your life, you're going to find yourself hungry pretty darn quick.

[Securame 0]

Makes me wonder, what is the maximum recording resolution of a BT878 chip...? Because a 8ch 200fps card with 8 BT878 chips might an option here if a BT878 can record at 640x480, which I think it can.

 

I have used a 8ch BT878 card, which can be used with BTWinCap opensource drivers. Then the card is easily recognised under Windows, and you can use programs like Active Webcam or Argus DVR (both from Pysoft) with those cards.

 

Active Webcam was giving me option to record up to 720x576 each channel, and Argus DVR was giving me option to record up to 1280x960, so I call them both BS (they must upscale the image with software), but if a BT878 can be used at 640x480 it would be a good option.

 

Edit: mmmh after googling a bit, maybe the max recording resolution of a BT878 chip is 720x576 after all...