Arecont/Win2k??

[Soundy 1]

So I gather from this that Arecont does not have a web configurator useable within only a browser? Good to know info...

 

Arecont has built in web server in every camera

and yes u can adjust parameter's of the camera

p.s. They do have stand alone IP finder utility

 

Thanks for clearing that up ak... But I must say that now I don't understand any of the dilema here, I must not be experienced enough to understand it. I was under the impression that all the features and functions could be configured with the cameras onboard web server configurator and ip finder utility..

 

The dilemma is that the camera ships only with an installer than installs the configurator, AND the NVR, AND sets the NVR to auto-start with Windows. There are no options during installation to change or disable this behaviour.

 

Help me understand why the need to utilize any other tools or applications if one is not going to use them systemwide 24/7? What am I missing? Insn't it as simple as logging in to the web server, installing Areconts Active-X controls and setup the camera....done?

 

Before you can access the cameras via webserver, you need to assign an appropriate IP to them - this is true with most network cameras, including the IQEyes.

 

But with the IQs, there's a very basic little "IQfinder" utility that runs to allow you to set the camera's IP and name, after which it can remain installed for future use; it doesn't install any services, it doesn't launch itself at startup, it doesn't interfere with anything else.

 

With Arecont's package, it installs its own NVR whether you want it or not; it sets the NVR to auto-start with Windows whether you want it to or not; and apparently, Arecont cameras don't like to have more than one stream accessing them, so if their NVR and your desired DVR/NVR are both starting up and reading the camera, it's going to cause problems. To avoid this, you have to uninstall their software again, or at least launch it and go into the settings to disable the auto-start.

 

Whether this is a "helpful" or not may be debatable... what's not, as far as I'm concerned, is that when you're installing one piece of software that you DO need (the IP finder/configurator), the manufacturer SHOULD NOT be forcing you to also install software you MIGHT NOT need (the NVR), especially if it will cause conflicts or problems with your existing software.

 

This is ridiculously easy to fix: add a step to the installer that lets you set or clear a checkbox for which portions of the package you want to install. If I don't want or need their NVR, let ME select to not install it. Don't just go ahead and assume I'll want it.

[Soundy 1]

This just goes to show you can't make everyone happy. If they had different installers people would complain about that.

 

All they need, is to allow the USER to decide whether they want the NVR installed or not along with the finder.

 

Not that difficult a concept - don't force me to install software I don't want or need.

[DoorMan 0]

Got it. Thanks all for the explaination. I see now how that could be a pretty frustrating routine. No experience with Arecont software yet but soon I will. Seems odd man out to the other brands I've used.. All will find many cams at once in list form and allow ip/password setup of these all in bulk fashion. They are just like you say with a tiny unobtrusive utility suitable to be left on the system for later use.

 

I appreciate the help!

[Soundy 1]

Well, the Arecont has that utility... it just won't let you install ONLY that utility.

 

BTW, I tried a little experiment: copied the whole Arecont program folder from my desktop to my flash drive... took it to a Windows 2000 machine... surprise, surprise, the AVINSTALL utility runs ON WINDOWS 2000, on its own, no NEED to install all that extra shyte. Pretty stupid that the installer stops you from running it on Win2K, when the finder actually does work. Gonna try it on Win98 next, just to be silly...

[thewireguys 3]

This just goes to show you can't make everyone happy. If they had different installers people would complain about that.

 

All they need, is to allow the USER to decide whether they want the NVR installed or not along with the finder.

 

Not that difficult a concept - don't force me to install software I don't want or need.

 

You do need the Video System to focus the camera to it's fullest potential and setup the custom exposure windows.

 

The IQinvision rep is going to stop buy Thursday for a demo. My main concern is image quality and bandwidth. From the demos that I have seen at ISC and the images I have seen Arecont has a better image. Also Arecont has the 180 and 360 cameras which are very interesting and could be very useful. WallMart is replacing there 24 parking lot cameras with one 180 Arecont camera.

 

The other advantage with Arecont/Excaq setup is the integration with the camera motion detection which from my test is the best on-camera pixel based motion detection. It is far better for outdoor motion recording/events then Axis and Acti but not as good a Mobotix but they don't integrate with Exacq yet.

[cglaeser 0]

surprise, surprise, the AVINSTALL utility runs ON WINDOWS 2000

 

I'm not at all surprised. That is more common than not. Developers will test a product on a few of the more common operating system releases, but the product will likely run on many more operating systems than are included in the installer. Windows 2K is often not tested or included in the install list, but that does not mean it won't run on Windows 2K.

 

Best,

Christopher

[thewireguys 3]

IQ color (IQ SENTINEL 852(IQ752))

 

Arecont color AV2100DN

 

IQ B/W

 

Arecont B/W

 

IQ B/W with IR

 

Arecont B/W with IR

 

Until IQinvision can show better images then this I am sticking with Arecont

[cglaeser 0]

The IQ BW and IR images are out of focus. Try focusing the IR and see if the color focus remains good enough.

 

Best,

Christopher

[Tailbone215 0]

The IQ BW and IR images are out of focus. Try focusing the IR and see if the color focus remains good enough.

 

 

This seems more like a lens issue to me. Since IR is at a different wavelength than visible light there are always compromise when it comes to focusing. One generally picks what mode is used most and tries to get focus close as possible without sacrificing clarity by splitting the difference in focus. My suspicions are a better IR corrected lens on the IQ will yield better results between both mode. The Arecont definitely kicks butt here!

[Soundy 1]

surprise, surprise, the AVINSTALL utility runs ON WINDOWS 2000

 

I'm not at all surprised. That is more common than not. Developers will test a product on a few of the more common operating system releases, but the product will likely run on many more operating systems than are included in the installer. Windows 2K is often not tested or included in the install list, but that does not mean it won't run on Windows 2K.

 

Best,

Christopher

 

Yeah, the kicker is that the installer specifically checks the version of Windows and refuses to install on anything but XP or 2K3 Server.

[Soundy 1]

The IQ BW and IR images are out of focus. Try focusing the IR and see if the color focus remains good enough.

 

 

This seems more like a lens issue to me. Since IR is at a different wavelength than visible light there are always compromise when it comes to focusing. One generally picks what mode is used most and tries to get focus close as possible without sacrificing clarity by splitting the difference in focus. My suspicions are a better IR corrected lens on the IQ will yield better results between both mode.

 

Oh wait, I can post some out-of-focus pics from these AV3155s too!

[Tailbone215 0]

 

Oh wait, I can post some out-of-focus pics from these AV3155s too!

 

So, do you think the above images are a result of simply being out of focus or a lens issue as I speculate? I hope it is that simple. I know one thing, looking at both color images on a calibrated monitor I can see the Arecont is producing much better color accuracy that the IQ. Even under fluorescent lighting.

[Soundy 1]

 

Oh wait, I can post some out-of-focus pics from these AV3155s too!

 

So, do you think the above images are a result of simply being out of focus or a lens issue as I speculate? I hope it is that simple.

 

Well, considering both are sharp in color, but the IQ is then out of focus in B&W and IR... yeah, I'd say it's pretty clear that's a lens issue, unless the camera is changing its own back-focus.

[hardwired 0]

Wireguys, what lens are you using? Kowa has some new D/N corrected lenses I am trying, and there does not seem to be anywhere that much focus shift on a Arecont AV5100DN...

 

BTW, the new Panasonic 3MP box / domes have their auto back focus feature... And a CCD imager with fairly impressive low light capability (I only got to use it for a few minutes, though, while the Pano rep was in our office... I do have one on order, will post images when I can..

 

Thanks for the info on the Arecont utility, that sort of irritated me too, having to install / uninstall all the time..

[cglaeser 0]

BTW, the new Panasonic 3MP box / domes have their auto back focus feature... And a CCD imager with fairly impressive low light capability

 

What is the model number?

 

Best,

Christopher

[hardwired 0]

BTW, the new Panasonic 3MP box / domes have their auto back focus feature... And a CCD imager with fairly impressive low light capability

 

What is the model number?

 

Best,

Christopher

 

 

Here's a link to the box model... Ive got a spec cd that has more info, let me know if you need more info... http://catalog2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ModelDetail?displayTab=O&storeId=11201&catalogId=13051&itemId=360500&catGroupId=14471&surfModel=WV-NP502

[thewireguys 3]

These are interesting specs on the Panasonic WV-NP502

 

-Up to 30 fps full frame transmission at

1,280 x 960 image size (1.3 Megapixel mode)

-Up to 3 Megapixel (2,048 x 1,536) JPEG stream

(3 Megapixel mode, JPEG only)

-High sensitivity with Day/Night function: 1.0 lux

(Color), 0.08 lux (B/W) at F1.4 (1.3Megapixelmode)

 

it can only do mjpeg @ 3 megapixel res not good for storage or bandwidth

[cglaeser 0]

it can only do mjpeg @ 3 megapixel res not good for storage or bandwidth

 

For cameras that support advanced motion detection, this may not be a problem. My application is a good example. There is relatively little motion on my culdesac on a typical day. Mail delivery, paper delivery, neighbor walking a dog, etc. On the rare occasions there is motion, I want exceptionally good images. The average load is just a few hundred images per day per camera.

 

Best,

Christopher

[thewireguys 3]

it can only do mjpeg @ 3 megapixel res not good for storage or bandwidth

 

For cameras that support advanced motion detection, this may not be a problem. My application is a good example. There is relatively little motion on my culdesac on a typical day. Mail delivery, paper delivery, neighbor walking a dog, etc. On the rare occasions there is motion, I want exceptionally good images. The average load is just a few hundred images per day per camera.

 

Best,

Christopher

 

If this camera does pixel based motion detection your going to have a lot of false positives when the camera is outdoors. I don't know if you tried any cameras yet for this solution but any change in lighting level will trip the motion window. Clouds, rain, snow, trees, shadows, leaves will all trigger pixel based motion detection. Then once you get it up for day time your settings don't work at night. From all of the cameras I have tested Arecont is very good but you will get false positives and Mobotix is the best because of the built in logic.

Edited August 24, 2009 by Guest

[cglaeser 0]

I don't know if you tried any cameras yet for this solution but any change in lighting level will trip the motion window.

 

Yes, I have Axis 223M and Axis 207MW and they work very well in this mode. And yes, there are some false events, but the total bandwidth and file size is tiny in comparison to a modest network and NAS.

 

If you want a distributed security system, Axis is an excellent choice. The feature Axis falls short is low light sensitivity. I'm curious to see how well the new P3344 does in low light. Axis claims 0.05 lux, but as usual for Axis, they fail to mention the associated shutter speed. Tech support is working on getting an answer for that.

 

Best,

Christopher

[hardwired 0]

As for advanced motion detection, the Panasonic has an interesting feature that's not well mentioned in the documentation, that I saw demonstrated- Face detection. The cam can detect up to 8 faces in an image, and output that info as XML data. I think that would reduce false triggering significantly, at the expense of a few missed detections- maybe record on all motion but speed up frame rate, resolution, and send an alert when a face is detected?

[cglaeser 0]

The cam can detect up to 8 faces in an image, and output that info as XML data.

 

Pretty slick. Has the pricing been announced for the box cam? For the outdoor dome version? Is there a reseller than has them in stock?

 

Best,

Christopher

[hardwired 0]

Here's a link for info on the dome.

http://www.psdn.info/psdn/bulletins/PanasonicBulletinPN2009-10_WV-NW502SVandalResistantDomeCamera.pdf

From what the rep said, the box cams are 2-3 weeks out, dome 4-5 weeks to distribution (we use Northern)

[cglaeser 0]

Here's a link for info on the dome.

http://www.psdn.info/psdn/bulletins/PanasonicBulletinPN2009-10_WV-NW502SVandalResistantDomeCamera.pdf

 

The specifications include four lux ratings with associated shutter speeds.

 

1. 3 Megapixel:

 

Color: 1.0 lux, B/W: 0.08 lux at F1.2 (Shutter: 1/30 s, AGC: High, SD: OFF)

 

Color: 0.06 lux, B/W: 0.005 lux at F1.2 (Shutter: 16/30 s, AGC: High, SD: OFF)

 

3 Megapixel (JPEG only)

 

Color: 2.0 lux, B/W: 0.16 lux at F1.2 (Shutter: 1/30 s, AGC: High),

 

Color: 0.12 lux, B/W: 0.01 lux at F1.2 (Shutter: 16/30 s, AGC: High)

 

Thank you Panasonic and Mobotix!!! Now, if only companies like Axis would do the same. Reporting a lux value without the shutter speed is useless.

 

Best,

Christopher

[hardwired 0]

I agree. In my experience, Panasonic, Sony, and Chugai / CBC America have been the most honest with their ratings.

FWIW, I think anything beyond 2X frame integration is usually pretty worthless. Also, I've got it in for manufacturers that list their B/W sensitivity as "0 Lux, IR sensitive" ....useless BS!