damai7788 0 Posted August 26, 2009 Hello All, We are going to install 16 camera in a warehouse. Mostly are indoor cameras. Average cable length for each camera is around 250 m = 830 feet. Totally, we will need around 3000 m = 10000 feet. We usually use coax RG59/U. To reduce cost in cable, we plan to use Cat5E and passive baluns. Electricity(220 VAC) will use its own electricity cable, daisy chained to all the cameras. Adaptor 12 VDC is installed near each camera. Cat5E cable has 4 pairs of cable, and each set of balun only need 1 pair of cable. 1. Can we use one Cat5E cable for 4 camera near to each other? 2. Is there any video quality issue using one Cat5E for 4 camera compare to one Cat5E for each camera? 3. Can we improve the video quality by doubling the pairs? We put together the orange+white orange for the +, and then blue+white blue for the -. Instead of orange for the + and white orange for the -. 4. The + and - connecting two balun side need to be one pair/twisted? Any idea is welcome. Thanks. Anto Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
survtech 0 Posted August 26, 2009 Cat5E cable has 4 pairs of cable, and each set of balun only need 1 pair of cable. 1. Can we use one Cat5E cable for 4 camera near to each other? Yes. 2. Is there any video quality issue using one Cat5E for 4 camera compare to one Cat5E for each camera? Not at all. 3. Can we improve the video quality by doubling the pairs? We put together the orange+white orange for the +, and then blue+white blue for the -. Instead of orange for the + and white orange for the -. No. In fact, that would adversely affect the image quality since it would change the impedance of the cabling. It might cause ghosting, etc. 4. The + and - connecting two balun side need to be one pair/twisted? I'm not sure I understand your question. With baluns, connect the same color of a pair to the (+) side of the balun at each end and do the same with the (-) side. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hardwired 0 Posted August 26, 2009 4. The + and - connecting two balun side need to be one pair/twisted? I'm not sure I understand your question. With baluns, connect the same color of a pair to the (+) side of the balun at each end and do the same with the (-) side. I think he meant, does it need to be a individual twisted pair, and not a split pair between multiple pairs in the cable... That's a big YES, you need a true pair for correct impedance, common mode rejection, and avoiding a lot of other problems. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
damai7788 0 Posted August 27, 2009 Thanks for your replies. Yes, my last question is if we must use one pair (twisted) to connect the + and -. So we cannot use telephone cable which is not twisted in pair. Hopefully, using this methode, we can reduce cost for the cable. Thanks. Anto Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
survtech 0 Posted August 27, 2009 So we cannot use telephone cable which is not twisted in pair. You can use CAT-3 (Telco cable) but the signal will be more prone to noise and the distance is more limited. There are times when Telco cable is the only transport medium available and you use what you can. By the way, it is twisted-pair; there's just not very many twists. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
damai7788 0 Posted August 28, 2009 Thanks bro. I've calculated the cost. Using RG59/U, total cost is around 6000 usd. While using Cat5E+baluns, total cost is around 5600 usd. The difference is 'only' around 400 usd. Total cost is including PC, cameras, cable, labour, etc. So, which alternative is better? Which one has a better picture quality? Thanks. Anto Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thewireguys 3 Posted August 28, 2009 With Cat5 you can upgrade to megapixel cameras in the future. And don't use cheap baluns. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
survtech 0 Posted August 28, 2009 Define cheap. We tested a number of passive baluns using an FM Systems CM-1 Camera Master with both 1,000 ft. and 1,500 ft. of CAT-5e. We tested NVT, GVI, VideoEase and Video Baluns Unlimited baluns and there was virtually no difference in performance. Here are the first results of our tests of passive baluns: Source: Ganz ZC-DN3039NHAT with built-in NVT passive balun. Cable Length: Approximately 1,500 ft. total CAT-5E consisting of: ** Camera to Punchdown - Approx. 270 ft. West Penn CC2418 (Siamese 2-pair CAT-5E plus 18/2 power) ** Punchdown to Punchdown - Approx. 1,200 ft. Berk-Tek 25-pair Cat-5E Trunk Cable ** Punchdown to DVR/Monitor - Approx. 30 ft. ARM Electronics CAT5E1G (Cat-5E 4-pair) Measuring Device: FM Systems CM-1 Camera Master Vigitron VB1001M Sync level 023 IRE Luminance 070 IRE Composite 093 IRE Color Burst 001 IRE VideoEase Sync level 023 IRE Luminance 069 IRE Composite 092 IRE Color Burst 001 IRE Video Baluns Unlimited BL3265 Sync level 023 IRE Luminance 070 IRE Composite 093 IRE Color Burst 001 IRE GVI VB59SPSync level 023 IRE Luminance 069 IRE Composite 093 IRE Color Burst 001 IRE For reference, here is the data from the same camera using a Pelco TW3004AR active receiver: Sync level 039 IRE Luminance 147 IRE Composite 187 IRE Color Burst 027 IRE Here are the second results of our tests of passive baluns: Source: Ganz ZC-DN3039NHAT with built-in NVT passive balun. Cable Length: Approximately 1,000 ft. total CAT-5E consisting of: ** Camera to Punchdown - Approx. 70 ft. West Penn CC2418 (Siamese 2-pair CAT-5E plus 18/2 power) ** Punchdown to Punchdown - Approx. 900 ft. Berk-Tek 25-pair Cat-5E Trunk Cable ** Punchdown to DVR/Monitor - Approx. 30 ft. ARM Electronics CAT5E1G (Cat-5E 4-pair) Measuring Device: FM Systems CM-1 Camera Master Vigitron VB1001M Sync level 026 IRE Luminance 088 IRE Composite 115 IRE Color Burst 007 IRE VideoEase Sync level 026 IRE Luminance 087 IRE Composite 115 IRE Color Burst 007 IRE Video Baluns Unlimited BL3265 Sync level 026 IRE Luminance 088 IRE Composite 115 IRE Color Burst 007 IRE GVI VB59SP Sync level 027 IRE Luminance 088 IRE Composite 115 IRE Color Burst 007 IRE For reference, here is the data from the same camera using a Pelco TW3004AR active receiver: Sync level 036 IRE Luminance 150 IRE Composite 187 IRE Color Burst 024 IRE Here are the third results of our tests of passive baluns: Source: Ganz ZC-DN3039NHAT with built-in NVT passive balun. Cable Length: Approximately 1,000 ft. total CAT-5E consisting of: ** Camera to Punchdown - Approx. 70 ft. West Penn CC2418 (Siamese 2-pair CAT-5E plus 18/2 power) ** Punchdown to Punchdown - Approx. 900 ft. Berk-Tek 25-pair Cat-5E Trunk Cable ** Punchdown to DVR/Monitor - Approx. 30 ft. ARM Electronics CAT5E1G (Cat-5E 4-pair) Measuring Device: FM Systems CM-1 Camera Master Taken Directly at the Camera (no baluns) Sync level 038 IRE Luminance 121 IRE Composite 160 IRE Color Burst 033 IRE Vigitron VB1001M Sync level 026 IRE Luminance 088 IRE Composite 115 IRE Color Burst 007 IRE VideoEase Sync level 026 IRE Luminance 088 IRE Composite 115 IRE Color Burst 007 IRE Video Baluns Unlimited BL3265 Sync level 026 IRE Luminance 088 IRE Composite 115 IRE Color Burst 007 IRE GVI VB59SP Sync level 027 IRE Luminance 088 IRE Composite 115 IRE Color Burst 007 IRE ! NVT Passive Transmitter Hooked Up in Reverse Sync level 027 IRE Luminance 090 IRE Composite 117 IRE Color Burst 006 IRE For reference, here is the data from the same camera using a Pelco TW3004AR active receiver: Sync level 036 IRE Luminance 150 IRE Composite 186 IRE Color Burst 024 IRE Notes: ! = We took an NVT passive transmitter from another Ganz ZCD-3000 series dome camera and hooked it up in reverse for this test. A short BNC cable was soldered to the PC board where it would connect to the camera's 75 ohm output. This is the same camera we tested previously in our second test. We did re-test with all baluns used previously but added a test directly at the camera and a test with the NVT balun. There is no model number on the NVT balun used since it is a module soldered to a PC board, not a stand-alone NVT balun. However, it is very likely that it is the same product as their low-end passive baluns. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Overall Notes: As you may have surmised, there are literally no measurable differences between the four baluns, since +/- 001 IRE is basically the meter's resolution limits. Also, the picture on a high resolution JVC 21" color monitor shows no discernible differences between the four passive devices. On another note: On the first test at 1,500 ft., there were very obvious defects in the passive-passive video quality as compared to the passive-active. The picture was "washed out" and high brightness areas showed color fringing (rainbows of color) in them. The signal was strong enough to record a useable picture on our DVR system (Honeywell Enterprise). On the second test at 1,000 ft., the defects were far more subtle. The color fringing nearly disappeared; the washed out contrast improved immensely and the recorded video was nearly perfect. Conclusions: * There are no practical differences between the baluns listed and likely few differences in any reasonably well-made passive baluns. * Since the picture quality at 1,000 ft. was very good, I would say that the generally accepted limit of 750 ft. passive-passive is both valid and practical and at 500 ft. (the longest run inside the casino) it is comparable to RG-59 coax. * Since we did not test using other cable types, our findings only apply to the above listed cable types. * We have also used the following CAT-5E cables inside the casino with similar results: ** Arrow Wire 09LR-350EA4-6 CAT-5E 4-pair ** Arrow Wire 09-E5EA25-8 Cat-5E 25-pair Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
