Suggestion: Users Only Topic

[kaysadeya 0]

I suggest we start a "Users Only" topic. All established dealers are banned from participation.

 

Please vote.

[FredB 0]

Does that mean that the "dealers" do not have to see all the questions "users" have about the "dvr" odd ball capture cards that users buy from radio schack and other places.

 

Hmm, I don't see why not.

[kaysadeya 0]

Cheap shot. Maybe we wouldn't be forced to buy from Radio Shack if us little people had access to the information and prices in the Dealer's Only thread.

 

Dealers, consider the basic business concept that, if you don't expand your customer base, someone else will take it from you.

[rory 0]

actually, there really isnt anything in there ..its the deadest forum here.

[FredB 0]

Cheap shot. Maybe we wouldn't be forced to buy from Radio Shack if us little people had access to the information and prices in the Dealer's Only thread.

 

Dealers, consider the basic business concept that, if you don't expand your customer base, someone else will take it from you.

 

Sorry, you are right. The dealer forum is not as happening as you might think. I do think that dealer pricing should be kept to the dealers. Why? Because if we would install these system, and just charge for the labor we would go out of business in a second. I usally double the price of the equipment when we install the systems, and still no money in the bank so... These systems requir quite abit of knowledge about cameras, lenses and dvr's to setup so they work well and most of the public do not get that. So if we put in a 4 cam system in a liquar store which takes 3-4 hours, we should only make $300 on that? Won't work.

 

I do find it amusing with all the problems people seem to have with these windows based dvr cards. Why not buy a stand alone for $500, put it in a closet and forget about it, instead of figeuring out windows drivers. Thats why very few installation companies that do any kind of volume installs stand alones. Service calls cost money, and beside s that, who has the time.

[rory 0]

Fred, we are on the same page.

 

Though I am also going to offer the PC cards for certain users but they have to be very PC literate, and cant be a job where it has to be fixed "right now" sought of thing .. basically, if they dont need all the PC features, which, not many do, then its a stand alone.

 

 

Rory

[FredB 0]

Fred, we are on the same page.

 

Though I am also going to offer the PC cards for certain users but they have to be very PC literate, and cant be a job where it has to be fixed "right now" sought of thing .. basically, if they dont need all the PC features, which, not many do, then its a stand alone.

 

 

Rory

 

I think in general, the people who buy the dvr cards are " do-it-yourself" kind of guys who like to fiddle with things, who wants a ton of features that no normal person would never use. Joe Blow who opens up his first store has more important things to think about (like how to make money) then to fiddle with his new camera system.

 

I feel more and more like an end user, give me something that works, looks good when i play back material, and does not crash. Also be able to see the cameras on the net without having to install some program from a cd that will be lost in 2 days is also a big plus. Kind of focused in on 4-5 dvr in different price groups that I know are good. I think looking for new dvr's every week lost a little bit of it's charm. I think the whole access control system with integrated cctv is more challening. Just have to find the jobs...

[kaysadeya 0]

Personally, I'm a DYIer with a dedicated 16-channel Kodicom DVR. It's a bit overkill for a home installation, but my interests in CCTV are more hobbyist than a deep-routed need to record everything that goes on outside my house. After researching and installing various CCTV gear, I can really appreciate the amount of specialized knowledge you pros have and the types of unique challenges you must encounter and don't for a minute question that you deserve what little money you earn marking up the equipment you sell to clients. You make an honest living the hard way.

 

That said, I suspect there's a market for a variety of high-quality 4- 8-cam DVR packages targeted to the DIYer. There could be various packages that are customized for indoor-only, outdoor-only, indoor/outdoor, day/night, etc.. I've seen such packages for sale, but they're mostly made up of cheap components. The objective here is to offer high quality components and some level of customer support for the entire system, like you'd expect from Dell or Apple (which really isn't very much) and a forum like this to exchange stories and installation tips with other users.

 

I don't intend to start any new business myself, but suggest that some of you might consider this an option to explore in addition to your traditional one-off installs. Hopefully this type of sales model would empower the end users more and inspire freer exchange of what might now be considered "trade secrets."

Edited March 18, 2005 by Guest

[Thomas 0]

I'm not trying to make this a flame, I'm just having a rough morning so if this comes out like a flame, I truely don't mean that. I'll try to keep my points short.

 

1. That kind of marketing is better suited to manufacturers. It's capital intensive.

2. DIY's like to shop around. If Joe Dealer sells a Pelco bundle for $X and Bob Dealer sells it for $X - 5 then which will you buy it from? Joe and Bob go up against Pelco who's gonna win?

 

And my final point:

You are the exception to the rule with DIY's. I've worked with enough of them to know that they should spend the money on a dealer.

[Thomas 0]

And the only trade secerts in the dealer forum is prices. And I'll be honest, you won't get those prices from a company.

[rory 0]

Anything over 4 cameras, just doesnt work. Basically you generally will never use the same exact camera, for all 8 or 16 cameras. So i just do some suggestions such as listed here:

 

http://www.bahamassecurity.com/uploads/sales_config.pdf

 

Then I can give a discount if I need to. Ive got a couple extra DVRs to add in there, and probably take off 1 or 2, but its generally the idea.

 

Remember our pricing here is much higher than the US, thanks to Customs Tax.

 

Rory

[fdan4817 0]

My take...

 

While I am an end user, I still think dealers should have a few secrets regarding pricing. Many of us end users on this very website have gained valuable insights from people who do this for a living. They aren't getting paid by us, yet are still willing to share their knowledge. It is only right that they make a decent profit on the systems they install.

[qman 0]

Hey hey hey, you guys have to remember something.

 

What would happen if I walk into a job, and give a client a quote, and that same client, unknown to me, is a member of this forum, and saw my post telling everyone that a DVR cost 100, and I sold it to him for 200??

 

Hey, remember, you don't pay a person for spending 5 minutes fixing a problem, but you pay him for the years of experience and knowledge that he is providing to you to fix your problem.

 

The same goes for us Distributors/Dealers, to know what to recommend and give advise to our customers when they needed.

[fdan4817 0]

I actually was attempting to support the position that dealers should be able to keep their prices private...sorry if didn't come across that way.

[cctv_down_under 0]

And my final point:

You are the exception to the rule with DIY's. I've worked with enough of them to know that they should spend the money on a dealer.

 

Agreed!!!

[Integratek 0]

as a dealer i prefer not to sell anything at any price to a DIY - generally they have a lot more questions than i feel like answering or have time to.

besides that they do think that they know anything better than i do, and when i ask one why don't he do it all by himself if he's so smart, he got insulted

let alone all kinds of damage to a system being installed by an amature - burnt MB's, cams, cards, data loss

and one is responsible for all is a dealer

[rory 0]

how can they burn a MB?? besides thats Computer related not neccassarily CCTV ... and almost everyone knows how to build a PC these days.

 

The experience in CCTV, is always going to be with Cameras, what camera to use where, and how to install it properly. DVRs are so plug and play these days, anyone can install a DVR with little or no experience in the CCTV industry.

 

Multiplexers and Matrix systems, thats a different story.

[baywatch 1]

The problem with most diy's is that they listen to more than 1 person.

They get advice from the "fat man down the pub" want to buy equipment off us at e-bay prices and then keep coming back/phoning for advice on their unsatisfactory system.

[Integratek 0]

how to burn mb ?

to insert a pci dvr card into agp slot

to connect camera to computer's power supply and make a short circuit in the process

i might be that on bahamas almost everyone know how to build a computer

but here it's far from that, and the main problem that is 99.99% of anything computer related is in english, wich a most ppl here can speak but almost noone could be bothered to read, especially technical

[rory 0]

i might be that on bahamas almost everyone know how to build a computer

 

he he, no way .. not here, but in the first world for sure ..

 

then again, there is no reason for a DIY to build a PC when they can buy a ready made stand alone DVR ..

 

Rory

[rory 0]

The problem with most diy's is that they listen to more than 1 person.

They get advice from the "fat man down the pub" want to buy equipment off us at e-bay prices and then keep coming back/phoning for advice on their unsatisfactory system.

 

im not saying I want to deal with them, I was just touching on the CCTV part that takes experience .. the cameras.

[Integratek 0]

i'm not living in the first world either

to buy a standalone dvr is about 100 times more expencive than to buy a DVR card and install on you own computer

[rory 0]

Nope, the 4 channel stand alones start at $500 retail, plug and play. Remember security is all about reliability. Pluggin the cards into a PC that is not dedicated is a definate no no for a Security DVR.

[Integratek 0]

i'm sure that somewhere out there there's standalone dvrs for as low as $500, but not here

[rory 0]

i'm sure that somewhere out there there's standalone dvrs for as low as $500, but not here

 

Much lower for a dealer, with LAN also. But yeah I know what you mean ..