24 Camera System Required - What direction to take?

[rory 0]

Wow. I guess a picture really is worth a thousand words. Is the Field-of-View just dependent on the number of Megapixels the IP camera provides? Then, I can produce and record images like the one you posted, with the cheapest $250-$300 IP camera?

 

Now I'm thinking I should go with a hybrid solution (4 IP camera, 12 regular).

 

Just to play devil's advocate for a moment, why wouldn't everybody (at least for commercial applications) be jumping on the IP-based solution as opposed to the usual analog-camera DVR (PC or standalone), considering you can significantly reduce the camera count by using IP cameras? If you can reduce your camera count by say 50%, don't you roughly reduce your overall cost for an IP-based NVR system by around 50%? Is the cost of the software the mitigating factor here? In other words, I'm asking... where's the catch?

 

Um you can get that field of view with a non IP camera also.

But dont forget, you might need to see what someone is doing on the other side of the liquor shelves.

[Soundy 1]

Wow. I guess a picture really is worth a thousand words. Is the Field-of-View just dependent on the number of Megapixels the IP camera provides? Then, I can produce and record images like the one you posted, with the cheapest $250-$300 IP camera?

 

Field of view is dependent on the lens. More pixels just buy you more detail within that same view. If I had a 4CIF (704x480) capture with the same FOV as that megapixel cam, that center rack of wine bottles would just look like a big black blob in the middle of the frame (keep in mind, BTW, that this shot is taken with a substandard lens on the camera - the proper lens for this job would be even clearer and sharper).

 

Just to play devil's advocate for a moment, why wouldn't everybody (at least for commercial applications) be jumping on the IP-based solution as opposed to the usual analog-camera DVR (PC or standalone), considering you can significantly reduce the camera count by using IP cameras? If you can reduce your camera count by say 50%, don't you roughly reduce your overall cost for an IP-based NVR system by around 50%? Is the cost of the software the mitigating factor here? In other words, I'm asking... where's the catch?

 

Cost.

 

For one, there are situations where the increased quality doesn't offset the increased cost, as the cameras are still more expensive at a relative quality level. Yes, there are $250 megapixel cameras... and there are $25 analog dome cameras. There are also $2500 megapixel cameras and $600 analog cameras. You get what you pay for, in quality, features and performance. Point is, you can't just say "why would I use a $250 analog camera when I can get a $250 MP camera?" because there are other factors than just the resolution to take into account. The above shot, for example, is using an $800 (at the time; that model has come down in price) camera.

 

And while one MP camera CAN replace two or more analog cameras for some purposes, sometimes you simply need more angles, and thus more cameras. This is why it's hard to give specific advice without knowing more about the installation. In the example picture above, the single MP camera would be of more limited usefulness if, say, the wine racks were 8' tall, like some store shelves. In that case, rather than one camera to give you lots of detail for the whole store, you might be better off with individual cheaper cameras peering down each aisle.

 

And finally, more pixels also means more storage - 1.2MP is four times the resolution of 4CIF... and accordingly, the footage can take up to four times the space (and remember, cameras are getting into the 3, 5, 8, even up to 16MP range now). Yes, drives are cheap these days ($120 for 1.5TB, are you kidding me?), but when you start needing a lot of them, the support structure can get pricey. Case in point: we have one client that demands 90 days' retention on all their sites. The first site we did for them, we have 23 analog cameras recording at 4CIF at an average of 4fps, and five 1.3MP cameras at 4fps. The system itself was at its max with 3TB internal, and was holding just barely three weeks(!!!). So we added an external 8-bay network-attached RAID: 8x1TB, RAID5, for about 6.5TB available. Now, with 9.5TB total, they're just barely getting 90 days. The drives were about $110 each at the time... the RAID rack ran around $3000.

 

Bottom line, there is no one perfect camera or DVR for every situation.

[rory 0]

If I had a 4CIF (704x480) capture with the same FOV as that megapixel cam, that center rack of wine bottles would just look like a big black blob in the middle of the frame (keep in mind, BTW, that this shot is taken with a substandard lens on the camera - the proper lens for this job would be even clearer and sharper).

i disagree, Ive used 2.5mm on non IP cameras which gave me a similar FOV if not identical as in that shot. The center was fine. The issues that would appear are on fixed lenses mostly where the edges would be blurry. On the CCTV monitor the live shot would look great and crisp, just like the image you posted, if not even better. Remember I am NOT talking about a PC image, Im talking about the quality from a composite stand alone DVR to a high resolution CCTV monitor, crisp like a movie. Ofcourse networking sucks and you cant show off the images on forums like this .. but hey .. did the job great otherwise

 

Also in all fairness that CCTV dome you posted the image of is a poor example of a CCTV camera as it is zoomed right in, is lower than the IP camera, and has no IR Cut filter.

 

2.5mm i think, varifocal lens. excuse the 320x240 networked snapshot size from the old stand alone .. but you get the jist aye ... they had a 13" color TV in this case, was crisp in full screen - just like TV boss

 

oh yeah while on the subject, what you think of this 380TVL $50 bullet?

http://www.bahamassecurity.com/tmp/AMCAPlrg.bmp

(i just want show not all cctv cameras are crap thats all even the cheap ones can be ok)

some of the video demos i saw on the vivotek site were hardly any better than the above link. i hope acti is better, thewireguy said it is.

 

I still appreciate the comparison images though.

[VIP 0]

Also, i hate it when cameras fail, so even though i'm on a budget, i do like reliabile hardware.

 

As I tell folks who want to build a high HP, yet cheap motor for their Porsche: "Fast, reliable, cheap...pick any two. You can't have all three".

[cameraking2009 0]

I don't think you can get IP camera with 24ch for that budget. And also you might flood your own network if you do so.

 

What I recommend is:

 

8ch DVR card x 3 which total up to 24CH - $1000 to $1800

An above average PC which to be sure got 3 x PCI slots - less than $1000

Standard Dome camera - $80 to $90 per piece

Cables - $1 to $1.50 per meter

 

Roughly makes up to more or less $4000.

 

Cheers!

[gfdcxgfd 0]

My input if you want:

 

CHEAP IP Solution:

 

D-Link DCS-910 640 x 480 MAX Resolution $68 each. ($68 x 24) = $1632

PC DVR with software & 1 monitor ~$2000-$2500

POE Switch ~$700-$900

CAT5e 1000ft Wire ~$80

MISC (connectors, and other small stuff) ~ 100

 

Not exactly $4000 but I'm sure you can flex a little.

 

I got an idea for an analog system but I cant fit it in your budget.....unless you want some knock off Chinese stuff.

[zmxtech 0]

I want 1000 IP cameras my bugdet is $1000! -and they must be wireless