Camera Wanted

[rory 0]

That's the Extreme EX82 Dual Camera, 150' IR, though they all claim 150', Extreme Does say its only 150' indoors, and 75' Outdoors, but im getting at least 90' there outdoors as thats the distance from the camera to the Pool House, i put the alarm beams in so thats how i know Reason Im getting more IR there than the others is Placement of the camera pretty low down, and the reflection from the surrounding walls. Notice the difference from that, and the Beach camera, which are the Same, EX82. The Beach one is all wide open with no reflection besides the far beach wall which is over 100' away.

 

They have a 250' version of this camera now .. more $$$ though .. they both have 1 color camera and 1 BW camera, a Photo Cell, and a seperate collection of LEDs array which can be changed when needed, though they claim up to 10 years on them ..Id propbably go more the 5 year way on that ..havent gone yet though. They also have built in fan and surge protection, and full settings.

 

Rory

[Basil 0]

Well I took the plunge and ordered a "21CWSHRX Colour Bullet PAL" from www.rfconcepts.co.uk ... going to see if I can get away without an IR source..

 

Took a bit of a risk and ordered a 4 Channel PC DVR card from ebay for under a tenner... nothing ventured nothing gained....

 

If the card is no good, then I will go with a Geo card.

 

Many thanks for all the advice

[baywatch 1]

You will find suitable cameras & I.R lighting on RF Concepts site at good prices.

You can phone them & ask for advice, tell them I recommended you.

They really are good people to deal with.

[rory 0]

that looks alot like the Provideo Exview Bullet ive used, High Resolution, at least the specs are the same, and same size by the looks. If so, as we know they are all OEM cameras anyway, Provideo I mean, then it is a good little camera. It still requires some light and wont be as low light as a BW though it is very impressive. Fact it has an IR Cut filter makes it seem like the same one.

 

Post some clips if you get a chance

 

Rory

[Basil 0]

Rory

 

Thanks for the images, I just hope it comes close to what you posted.... wish I had the weather you do to match too

 

Once installed I will post some images... hopefully it will arrive before weekend and I can get tools etc. out....

[Basil 0]

I forgot to ask... should I require an IR source, do you good people think that the camera I opted for would function with the more covert type of IR ie > 840 ?

 

Cheers in advance

[rory 0]

If the IR Cut Filter is removed at night, then yes it will work for 840nm, normally. You have to check though to make sure it has an auto removable IR cut Filter, or whether it stays on all the time (as with the one I have), or, if the one you ordered doesnt have one at all.

 

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Purpose of IR Filter in Color Cameras

 

An IR filter – or IR cut filter - is a color filter blocking the infrared light. There are several good reasons for using an IR-cut filter. Using a color camera to achieve realistic colors in white light requires an IR-cut filter. The color spectrum seen by the human eye is quite limited compared to the spectrum seen by a CCD camera. Especially, in the near infrared region of the spectrum the difference in sensitivity is significant. This is important to know since many light sources, including the sun, emit infrared light. A CCD color camera in daylight without an IR-cut filter will therefore see a significant amount of infrared light resulting in strange colors. Another reason for using an IR-cut filter is the limited color correction for many lenses. It is difficult to design imaging optics covering both the visible spectrum and the near infrared spectrum at the same time. Therefore, many lenses have different depth of focus for the visible and the infrared spectrum. Anyway, the IR-cut filter cuts away a significant amount of the overall collected light and thereby affects the sensitivity in a negative way. In general, color cameras are one factor less sensitive compared to monochrome (depending on the CCD chip). This is primarily due to the IR-cut filter.

 

Info courtesy of Jai Camera Solutions

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An IR cut filter basically, when it is on, such as in the day, you will get great color images. An auto removable IR cut Filter, means its on in the day and off at night, for IR pick up. If the IR cut filter is fixed, then it will not recognise IR.

 

Rory

[Basil 0]

Just had a quick look at the pdf file on-line relating to the camera I ordered, it says "Infra-red sensitive without loosing the true coloration at day light"

 

So from this and Rory's most informative post, I should be okay.....

 

Just want to say thanks to you guys for all the information, probably saved me from making a mistake...

 

Cheers

[kaysadeya 0]

Sounds like a very good start, for your first camera. One other feature to consider for an outdoor camera is an auto-iris lens. With an AI lens, you'll get better images as the light shifts throughout the day.

[wahloon 0]

not bad of a picture rory

[Basil 0]

Well I did a temp lash up to test the camera, cracking picture in daylight... though the picture at night is awful seems all black and blue... mustn't be enough light... claims to work 0.1 lux

 

Just flexed the plastic again and ordered the IR70 from here http://www.rfconcepts.co.uk/ir_lights.htm hopefully this should solve the problem.

 

Next job... installing that cheap card in PC and trying that.... still it will keep me out of mischief for awhile

 

Cheers and thanks

[Basil 0]

 

As promised, an early evening shot... installed it today, got to wait now for IR source to arrive..

 

Seems to works okay anyway.

 

Thanks for all the advice

[Cooperman 0]

Hey Basil,

 

Looks like somebodys parked their red car on your driveway

 

I noticed you've ordered up a relatively narrow beam IR illuminator, and given that you appear to have a fairly wide ish lens on the camera, you may have problems lighting as much as you want. Maybe if you give it a go then post back with your results; if you need to fiddle with the lighting, we may be able to come up with some suggestions.

 

Interesting to see how the focus drops off towards the edge of the picture. If the camera manufacturer had fitted a good quality lens, you'd probably have seen quite an improvement overall, but then of course, the price would probably have shot up

[Basil 0]

Hi Cooperman

 

I've tried to 'cover' the frontage on the cheap.. as there has been a few odd goings on. The camera came with a 4.3 lens, I changed this to a 2.9.. I suppose the lens isn't brilliant... though it was only a tenner.

 

You've now got me a little concerned over the IR illuminator... what should I have been looking at ?

 

There is a street light over the road which at night illuminates just the back of the black car... and there is sensor light which goes on if something enters the driveway... just leaving a real black spot around the front of the black car.

 

I was hoping that the beam might spread across maybe 70 deg and with a fair wind reach maybe 8 metres... but this is probably just a wild hope based on sales blurb I've read.

 

Any suggestions please ?

 

Oh and yes... damn cheeky parking that red thing there

[Cooperman 0]

"odd goings on" Basil, how could such a thing be possible?

 

I suppose I should have spotted the clue to the lens being an ultra wide - that's why the camera casing is showing in the upper corners of the picture.

 

On the very odd occasions I've used 2.9mm barrel lenses in the past, I've actually found them to be surprisingly good, but I'm guessing the £ 10 jobby is possibly not a terribly good pedigree, which is why the resolution is dropping off quite dramatically towards the edges.

 

If the IR illuminator is used to 'spot illuminate' the shadow area, you may actually find that the results are quite acceptable for your purpose. The chances are you may have something of a 'hotspot' in the picture, but you won't know that for sure until you test it.

 

One thing you could try is to get hold of a basic diffuser, perhaps a small piece of frosted glass from a local merchant (temporarily tape it in place over the front of the IR using electrical tape), and see what kind of effect you get locating the illuminator under the porch (bottom left of picture) pointing towards the back of the red car. You've got reflective gravel and plenty of foliage which will lighten up nicely - even the car may change noticeably. This test is purely to give you a feel for what will happen if you spread the IR light; it's not intended as the permanent solution.

 

Incidentally, with LED illuminators, I find it's often worth checking that all the diodes are functioning correctly, so I will generally point the camera 'off axis' towards the lamp, and you can then see if any of the diodes are dead.

 

Oh and by the way, if you see a huge white cat running across the road ... it's probably a fox!

[rory 0]

ha haha ha ,, you guys are too much .. throw in an Extreme UF600 and that fox will be crisp!! LOL

 

Yeah Ive had the same with 2.5mm fixed lenses before, 2.9mm isnt as bad. Focusing the 2.5 is a pain.

[Basil 0]

Help

 

I've posted a night view of the camera I got... it is supposed to be a low-light EXVIEW...

 

Maybe stupidly I thought that in low light situations it would switch to B/W and IR sensitive mode... according to the spec it is IR sensitive...

 

Now the issue is that today an IR illuminator arrived from RFconcepts.co.uk and I've rigged to point to the back of both cars.. see colour earlier in thread...

 

Forgive the pun, but can someone shed some light on why the image below is so poor ?

 

Please... I really need a working solution for night time.

 

 

I forgot to mention it doesn't look like the camera is switching to B/W..

 

Any and all help would be appreciated...

[kaysadeya 0]

I have a low-light ProVideo HEAT bullet that's great for low-light situations, but totally useless with IR. Looks like you might have a similar type of camera. If the seller mislead you on the specs, I'd return the camera and get a true day/night, or just go with B&W.

[rory 0]

Their Specs do say Infrared Sensitive, as an OPTION, at least thats what I thought they meant. The camera I posted has no IR as it has a permanent IR Filter to block the IR. It does switch to Monochrome though, for a little more sensivity. Actually it just removes the Chroma that is used to produce Color, but the IR Cut Filter is permanent.

 

Check with them, if they have the same bullet, but with an IR option.

 

Also, what IR Spectrum is the IR LED? (nm)

 

If you point the Infrared at the camera, do you see the light?

 

Rory

[VST_Man 1]

the ir the camera the lower the reflect.....sorry. i noticed that you mounted that camera way up on the peak of the house. I've made that mistake. Seems that ir needs to reflect and if you are 30ft up and 40 ft. out you won't get much reflect on anything. i think the camera specs say 30ft.? and you are asking for 60 plus ft. specs on ir are always inflated.

 

i always recommend mounting a ir camera as low as feasible because of the above. and any camera as low as possible so "we" can clean it, work it, play with it.

 

I have 2 of the 7706DNV's and they work pretty darn good. I did have to play with the "red" video adjustment (lowered it) to get the camera to stop sparkling at night. I guess I was overdriving it a bit? And, I did send in a video to ProVideo and I am awaiting an answer on it as I think the color adjustments should have zero effect at night anyway, right? Can you PM me me your thoughts on the 7706? Great camera, but, like all other camera's, a few weird things in setting them up. thanks.

[rory 0]

I havent used it, but the specs are the best camera Provideo has.

 

It claims a machanical IR cut Filter, so your Day images are great?

 

When you say red, was this when it was in BW mode, with other color cameras on the same system, or just the one camera byitself? Also what DVR were you using?

 

For real though, IR cameras need to be mounted low as possible to reflect or you wont see much. If you had a UF500 you could get away with it being higher up, but then .. the cost, and 30-40 feet is still very high and hard to get at to clean it, which can be needed at least once a week, depeding on weather.

 

Rory

[baywatch 1]

Hi

Why don't you contact the seller by phone & find out if they have tested the camera that they sent you with I.R.

I have had some dealings with this company & they are very helpful.

Ask to speak to Roy or Billy.

[VST_Man 1]

was in b/w mode, other cameras on the system. it works fine after I adjust the red video......i back it off until the video produced is clean. the day picture is fine, but, i'm pretty sure i should not have to do this adjustment "at night"? my cheaper camera's require no adjustments, but, they are not the low light special either.

 

on the cleaning issue. do you find that domes require less maintenance, from a spider web & dirt perspective? i've fouind they are because of the curved globe that makes it hard for a spider to weave and dirt can't collect as easy.

 

thanks,

[Basil 0]

Well I've had a little email correspondence with Roy and it appears that the camera I bought is as stated in the PDF is IR sensitive as an option, and rfconcepts only order as a special when they have an order for a large number. Got to say I am hopeful for an outcome, but they way they respond to emails etc. I am becoming both doubtful and despondent.

 

The advice from rfconcepts was to either return the IR illuminator I bought from them, and buy a BW camera.. So it looks like I will have spend some more money.

 

I have emailed them numerous times but only had 3 replies, last of which was 6 days ago, at present if I decide to spend anymore it is unlikely to be with rfconcepts.

 

Word of warning to people, be careful when you order something and do not believe all that you read, as this camera stated it was night and day and I don't mean the IR optional bit either.

[Cooperman 0]

Hey Basil,

 

The camera has to do what it says "on the tin"; if it's not "fit for purpose" and you have been mislead either verbally or by advertised claims, you have a right to demand a refund.

 

If they get funny about sorting your problem or refunding, you could always mention 'trading standards" and see what happens!