bpzle 0 Posted October 11, 2009 I run a small CCTV install business that so far specializes in residential and small mom and pop businesses. I would like to branch out and try to get into higher end enterprise level systems. So far I've checked out stuff from Nuuo, VideoInsight, and Exacq. I was hoping to hear from someone who has experience with all, and maybe others. What are your opinions of the strengths, weaknesses of each? What's your favorite, and why? Right now I don't have any requirements for enterprise level systems but I would like to educate myself as much as possible on what's out there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thewireguys 3 Posted October 11, 2009 It all depends on your customers needs I like Exacq because it works and great price point. You can also look into IPconfigure ONSSI Aimetis Mobotix And there is a lot more. My recommendation is use/demo them. Buy or build a server and get some IP cameras test it out BEFORE you think about selling any of it. You will save your self a lot of embarrassment this way. My only complaint with Exacq is they don't support Mobotix cameras. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michelangelo 0 Posted October 12, 2009 My personal favourite is Omnicast from Genetec. But it is also priced at the enterprise level. There are other good softwares that are cheaper. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hardwired 0 Posted October 12, 2009 Milestone is my current "enterprise" level solution... But Exacq runs a close second, at a third to a quarter of the price..... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Soundy 1 Posted October 13, 2009 Depends on how you define "enterprise-level", but our big customers are pretty much all Vigil. That includes two of Canada's largest oil companies that have standardized on it, as well as a major Western Canada upscale restaurant chain (we've been gradually upgrading them from GeoVision). In fact, we do corporate jobs almost exclusively, we've largely moved away from "mom & pop" stores and have never done residential, and we're pretty much exclusively Vigil (with the rare Video Insight for lower-cost PC-based systems, and Digital Watchdog for the budget-conscious). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Erron S. 0 Posted October 13, 2009 Thanks Soundy, appreciate the plug for our Vigil software. For Enterprise type or level of install, I'd say there are a few major players in that arena. 3xLogic (Vigil) Exacq Milestone ONSSI At least on the larger multi-chain retail, but shoot, I've seen these go into just about anything now-a-days from small convience stores to a number of high level military installs. I'd also say Avigilon, but is probably the most expensive in the group. Great gear though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Soundy 1 Posted October 13, 2009 Thanks Soundy, appreciate the plug for our Vigil software. Heheh, you bet - I use the systems and I love'em I'd also say Avigilon, but is probably the most expensive in the group. Great gear though. Avigilon is the freakin' Lambourghini of this industry. (where's that :drool: emoticon??) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
robert 0 Posted October 23, 2009 Avigilon, but you should stop dreaming NOW, because like said - its kind of Lamborgini and does cost like it But you get what you pay - top top top. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CCTV_Suppliers 0 Posted October 30, 2009 Anyone care to talk about costs of these software packages?? Someone calls a software Lamborghini and an expensive brand to compare top notch software product - I take it such statement quantifies price and not a quality, as Lamborghini is not a quality driven product - rather status quo if someone can afford it... Best of the best of anything comes in price and not reachable to 99% of public... which is fine only if that is the audience that these companies target. The main question, how many people actually use it... Lets do some basic analysis on costs lets say 4 cameras solution and then lets do the same with 128 cameras and see who is the leader of this pack and then lets look at how many customers actually use them. I think this is an interesting challenge, don't you? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thewireguys 3 Posted October 30, 2009 Anyone care to talk about costs of these software packages?? Someone calls a software Lamborghini and an expensive brand to compare top notch software product - I take it such statement quantifies price and not a quality, as Lamborghini is not a quality driven product - rather status quo if someone can afford it... Best of the best of anything comes in price and not reachable to 99% of public... which is fine only if that is the audience that these companies target. The main question, how many people actually use it... Lets do some basic analysis on costs lets say 4 cameras solution and then lets do the same with 128 cameras and see who is the leader of this pack and then lets look at how many customers actually use them. I think this is an interesting challenge, don't you? CCTV_Suppliers I am gonna assume you don't know anything about Avigilon. Their cameras are what make the system so great and they only work with there software. They are the only ip cameras that use 35 mm sensors and SLK lens. Their cameras are the best and most expensive. I did hear there entry level stuff is reasonably priced Here is an image from one of there cameras: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
megapixel man 0 Posted October 30, 2009 First up. What do most here define as "Enterprise Class"? This will limit the field a bit. For example I dont see sticking capture cards and a peice of software into a domestic or commercial grade PC as an Enterprise Class solution. Nor DVR's networked together. To me an Enterprise Class solution is NVR Server Based (rated as an Enterprise class server by the manufacturer), End to End engineered from cameras to client software. Support for its own cameras, analog, and third party IP cameras, such as those as members of ONVIF, (MPEG4, MJPEG, H.264, JPEG2000 compression support), HLI integration to Access Control and Alarm Systems, IP Intercoms, BMS and Fire Systems, a .NET SDK or similar to provide this type of integration at a high level. Can handle 1 to 100;s to 1000's of cameras connected via Lan and Wan, Has mirror redundant and fail over recording capabilities. Can be run up in a VM enviro as well as dedicated server. Graphic mapping interfaces. etc etc.. And most of all, run day in day out without the need for high maintenance. What are your thoughts? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
megapixel man 0 Posted October 30, 2009 Anyone care to talk about costs of these software packages?? Someone calls a software Lamborghini and an expensive brand to compare top notch software product - I take it such statement quantifies price and not a quality, as Lamborghini is not a quality driven product - rather status quo if someone can afford it... Best of the best of anything comes in price and not reachable to 99% of public... which is fine only if that is the audience that these companies target. The main question, how many people actually use it... Lets do some basic analysis on costs lets say 4 cameras solution and then lets do the same with 128 cameras and see who is the leader of this pack and then lets look at how many customers actually use them. I think this is an interesting challenge, don't you? CCTV_Suppliers I am gonna assume you don't know anything about Avigilon. Their cameras are what make the system so great and they only work with there software. They are the only ip cameras that use 35 mm sensors and SLK lens. Their cameras are the best and most expensive. I did hear there entry level stuff is reasonably priced Yep, Avigilon will do all the features I mentioned in my post prior to this. And your spot on Wireguy, excluding the PRO Camera range the rest of the product line up is very competitive. As no one else does cameras like the Avigilon PRO range what is there to compare it to anyway! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
robert 0 Posted October 30, 2009 Anyone care to talk about costs of these software packages?? Someone calls a software Lamborghini and an expensive brand to compare top notch software product - I take it such statement quantifies price and not a quality, as Lamborghini is not a quality driven product - rather status quo if someone can afford it... Best of the best of anything comes in price and not reachable to 99% of public... which is fine only if that is the audience that these companies target. The main question, how many people actually use it... Lets do some basic analysis on costs lets say 4 cameras solution and then lets do the same with 128 cameras and see who is the leader of this pack and then lets look at how many customers actually use them. I think this is an interesting challenge, don't you? Anyone care to talk about costs of these software packages?? Someone calls a software Lamborghini and an expensive brand to compare top notch software product - I take it such statement quantifies price and not a quality, as Lamborghini is not a quality driven product - rather status quo if someone can afford it... Best of the best of anything comes in price and not reachable to 99% of public... which is fine only if that is the audience that these companies target. The main question, how many people actually use it... Lets do some basic analysis on costs lets say 4 cameras solution and then lets do the same with 128 cameras and see who is the leader of this pack and then lets look at how many customers actually use them. I think this is an interesting challenge, don't you? About software: it reminds me an apple iPhone software - its easy to use, easy to understand, made for human beings, really nice to work with. Actual software is expensive, compared to something like Luxriot. Avigilon makes cameras, software, all accessories themselves - thats HUGE benefit. You get a-z from one company(like apple), so you know it will work 100%. They even sell Dell hardware, so you can get perfect kit, plug & play with guaranteed peace of mind. The way to build system - they have their own online system builder which is far best I have ever seen. Just dream tool for building your set up - from lense calculation with model suggestions to NVR storage space tool etc. Lenses. If you have seen their price list, they have tested dozens of lenses available on market and matched to their cameras. SO, you dont have to guess if this lense is any good with this camera. Also every lense has their comment about its performance and you know its real, not marketing bla bla bla from lense manufacturer. I do agree with some of your statements. CMOS cameras are not very good at night, but they dont cost like their CCD pro range, about the same as Arecont. So, on CMOS camera quality I cannot say Avigilon is Lamborgini, but just best between other manufacturers. I doubt you will be able to build 100 camera system, as for example single CMOS 5mpix DN dome camera on visually loseless video recording gives out 81 Mbps - you just dont have such a computer power in these days yet. Of course you can lower image quality, but then whats the point of buying Avigilon then? Their CCD camera range - thats best stuff you can find and it is Lamborgini. I can carry on for long, but you have to see all demo videos, check cameras, spec etc, to realise that this is nice stuff Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
megapixel man 0 Posted October 30, 2009 Anyone care to talk about costs of these software packages?? Someone calls a software Lamborghini and an expensive brand to compare top notch software product - I take it such statement quantifies price and not a quality, as Lamborghini is not a quality driven product - rather status quo if someone can afford it... Best of the best of anything comes in price and not reachable to 99% of public... which is fine only if that is the audience that these companies target. The main question, how many people actually use it... Lets do some basic analysis on costs lets say 4 cameras solution and then lets do the same with 128 cameras and see who is the leader of this pack and then lets look at how many customers actually use them. I think this is an interesting challenge, don't you? Anyone care to talk about costs of these software packages?? Someone calls a software Lamborghini and an expensive brand to compare top notch software product - I take it such statement quantifies price and not a quality, as Lamborghini is not a quality driven product - rather status quo if someone can afford it... Best of the best of anything comes in price and not reachable to 99% of public... which is fine only if that is the audience that these companies target. The main question, how many people actually use it... Lets do some basic analysis on costs lets say 4 cameras solution and then lets do the same with 128 cameras and see who is the leader of this pack and then lets look at how many customers actually use them. I think this is an interesting challenge, don't you? About software: it reminds me an apple iPhone software - its easy to use, easy to understand, made for human beings, really nice to work with. Actual software is expensive, compared to something like Luxriot. Avigilon makes cameras, software, all accessories themselves - thats HUGE benefit. You get a-z from one company(like apple), so you know it will work 100%. They even sell Dell hardware, so you can get perfect kit, plug & play with guaranteed peace of mind. The way to build system - they have their own online system builder which is far best I have ever seen. Just dream tool for building your set up - from lense calculation with model suggestions to NVR storage space tool etc. Lenses. If you have seen their price list, they have tested dozens of lenses available on market and matched to their cameras. SO, you dont have to guess if this lense is any good with this camera. Also every lense has their comment about its performance and you know its real, not marketing bla bla bla from lense manufacturer. I do agree with some of your statements. CMOS cameras are not very good at night, but they dont cost like their CCD pro range, about the same as Arecont. So, on CMOS camera quality I cannot say Avigilon is Lamborgini, but just best between other manufacturers. I doubt you will be able to build 100 camera system, as for example single CMOS 5mpix DN dome camera on visually loseless video recording gives out 81 Mbps - you just dont have such a computer power in these days yet. Of course you can lower image quality, but then whats the point of buying Avigilon then? Their CCD camera range - thats best stuff you can find and it is Lamborgini. I can carry on for long, but you have to see all demo videos, check cameras, spec etc, to realise that this is nice stuff Hi Robert, In actual fact you can run 100's of Avigilon 1 thru to 16MP on a client machine, unlike many others that limit you to how many cams can be displayed at one time in the high megapixel range. Avigilon does this with HDSM (High Definition Stream Management), basic description of this is that if your viewing 36x 16mp cameras on one monitor, your not actually sending 36x 16MP streams to the client monitor, it basically adjusts to the resolution of the monitor, and only send the required image packets for viewing, and then there are quality layers that can be zoomed in on, and even then it only sends those packets required for viewing that part of the image. A bit like a straw into a cube if that make sense. The bandwidths you mentioned are from camera to server, and it would be rare to run at "visually lossles" the Avigilon default is Level 6 compression so a 5MP cam at 12 images per second Level 6 will run from camera to server at 34.6Mbits, Level 9 is comparable to others and this would be 24.2Mbits at 12 images per second. Most available NVR's on the market are suggested to run no more than 256Mbits. However thsi depend on the servers. For example a Blade with a 10GIG back plane can run ALOT more. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
megapixel man 0 Posted October 30, 2009 Just for fun, since "thewireguys" posted a native res day shot from an Avigilon 16MP PRO Camera, heres a night time image from the same camera. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
megapixel man 0 Posted October 30, 2009 (edited) try that again! [/img] Dosnt look like i can post the native size from Photobucket In the Avigilon client software I can zoom in and read every plate on those cars at the traffic lights. Also note, no motion blur on the moving cars. Edited October 30, 2009 by Guest Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
robert 0 Posted October 30, 2009 16mp camera at night. I doubt any other camera on planet can do this Day: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CCTV_Suppliers 0 Posted October 31, 2009 CCTV_Suppliers I am gonna assume you don't know anything about Avigilon. Their cameras are what make the system so great and they only work with there software. They are the only ip cameras that use 35 mm sensors and SLK lens. Their cameras are the best and most expensive. I did hear there entry level stuff is reasonably priced thewireguys, you assumed wrong! Obviously you did not read my comments and take a stand (or assume) that when someone asks a question, obviously they do not know what they are talking about... By the way, if you read my comments, do you see any mention of the IP camera hardware?? I am sure if you do read comments, then you do not have to "assume" yourself on people's capabilities. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CCTV_Suppliers 0 Posted October 31, 2009 Guys, all are great pictures from various camera vendors... Going back to by basic questions on earlier post in this thread... Anyone care to talk about costs of these software packages?? Someone calls a software Lamborghini and an expensive brand to compare top notch software product - I take it such statement quantifies price and not a quality, as Lamborghini is not a quality driven product - rather status quo if someone can afford it... Best of the best of anything comes in price and not reachable to 99% of public... which is fine only if that is the audience that these companies target. The main question, how many people actually use it... Idea Lets do some basic analysis on costs lets say 4 cameras solution and then lets do the same with 128 cameras and see who is the leader of this pack and then lets look at how many customers actually use them. I think this is an interesting challenge, don't you? Based on these simple questions, my friend "thewireguys" "assumes" that I am not familiar with Avigilon product line... Interestingly enough, there is no mention of Avigilon cameras or their software or any comments on any other software in my post? Curious, how do you "assume" that someone has or does not have knowledge on Avigilon product line based on a simple questions that are addressed above? May be you should revisit your own "knowledge base" and stop "assuming" your answers! If I am reading the header of this thread, it states "Enterprise level systems. What's your favorite?"... Lets stay with what header is about and not go tangent on "assumptions" or "interpretations". Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thewireguys 3 Posted October 31, 2009 (edited) CCTV_Suppliers I am gonna assume you don't know anything about Avigilon. Their cameras are what make the system so great and they only work with there software. They are the only ip cameras that use 35 mm sensors and SLK lens. Their cameras are the best and most expensive. I did hear there entry level stuff is reasonably priced thewireguys, you assumed wrong! Obviously you did not read my comments and take a stand (or assume) that when someone asks a question, obviously they do not know what they are talking about... By the way, if you read my comments, do you see any mention of the IP camera hardware?? I am sure if you do read comments, then you do not have to "assume" yourself on people's capabilities dude..... I never said you don't know what your taking about . I was simply explaining if you want the best image quality on the market right now Avigilon is the only option and that their cameras only work with their software. Edited October 31, 2009 by Guest Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thewireguys 3 Posted October 31, 2009 Guys, all are great pictures from various camera vendors... All of the images are from Avigilon cameras. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bpzle 0 Posted October 31, 2009 Just curious... anyone know retail on that 16mp camera? I realize you have to also have the infrastructure to support the beast, but just curious what the msrp is for the thing by itself. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bpzle 0 Posted October 31, 2009 The "HDSM" technology from Avigilon is the first I've heard with these capabilities. Ingenious for saving bandwith and CPU power... Probably helps out tremendously for remote internet clients. Anyone know of other companies with similar technology? The stuff I'm experienced with only allows for throttleing of the entire systems remote connection quality and network bandwidth. This makes playing with megapixels over the internet no fun. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
robert 0 Posted October 31, 2009 Just curious... anyone know retail on that 16mp camera? I realize you have to also have the infrastructure to support the beast, but just curious what the msrp is for the thing by itself. I am not allowed to tell you the price. But I can tell you one thing - its reasonably priced for this kind of product. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
