ACTi ACM-7411 Power Question

[3RDIGLBL 0]

OK Looking at putting in a number of ACM-7411's (5 to be exact) and considering that we are in a cold area of the country I want to use the heater and blower. The specs state 13.2W at 12V. Trying to find a way of using a PDU to power them but I need one that will put out more than 1.1A per channel. I don't want 5 single channel power supplies.

 

Ideas?

[thewireguys 3]

According to Acti you only need the extra heater and blower if you plan on powering up the cameras when it is very cold out. Also they come with plug in power supply's you can use if you want.

[3RDIGLBL 0]

Really? Only when powering while it's cold?

 

These cameras will be operating in a cold environment. Are you saying that no heater will be needed when it is -40F outside?

 

The cameras also come with a DC power supply? I was not aware of that either. As you can see I've never bought these cams before so this is a first for me.

[thewireguys 3]

Really? Only when powering while it's cold?

 

These cameras will be operating in a cold environment. Are you saying that no heater will be needed when it is -40F outside?

 

The cameras also come with a DC power supply? I was not aware of that either. As you can see I've never bought these cams before so this is a first for me.

 

-40F LOL I would use the heater/blower

[3RDIGLBL 0]

LOL! Thought So.

 

So now back to my original question. What kind of PDU could I use to power these cams? I can't imagine plugging in so many single power supplies.

 

What size is the power supply that comes with the camera? I can't find info on it.

 

Thanks Wireguys for your help. I checked out Altronix and Arm but can't seem to locate the right PDU. I guess I could double up on an output. I could get a 16 camera power supply and double up on the outputs of a 1amp per channel supply to get the required current per camera? I haven't had to do anything like that before but could it work?

[thewireguys 3]

LOL! Thought So.

 

So now back to my original question. What kind of PDU could I use to power these cams? I can't imagine plugging in so many single power supplies.

 

What size is the power supply that comes with the camera? I can't find info on it.

 

Thanks Wireguys for your help. I checked out Altronix and Arm but can't seem to locate the right PDU. I guess I could double up on an output. I could get a 16 camera power supply and double up on the outputs of a 1amp per channel supply to get the required current per camera? I haven't had to do anything like that before but could it work?

 

They come with a 12dc 1.5A power supply

[ando 0]

The simplest way to solve both cabling and power issues is to use the suitable PoE supported Switches, providing 15W per channel.

 

To ensure 15W per channel, I recommend use industrial switches, for example Korenix, Moxa, Cisco, Hp.

 

For economic choice, consider D-Link and other consumer switches, but maybe not so reliable for your purpose.

[thewireguys 3]

The simplest way to solve both cabling and power issues is to use the suitable PoE supported Switches, providing 15W per channel.

 

To ensure 15W per channel, I recommend use industrial switches, for example Korenix, Moxa, Cisco, Hp.

 

For economic choice, consider D-Link and other consumer switches, but maybe not so reliable for your purpose.

 

Acti needs a separate 12vdc power supply for extended temperature ranges. I just can't remember if you need it in addition to the POE or will the 12vdc power the heater/blower and camera.

[3RDIGLBL 0]

Ya from what I was told by the distributor the camera will operate off the 12VDC. So in otherwords 12VDC can operate the camera, heater/blower.

 

I did not know about the power supply that came with the camera. I will have to look into that more. Would you happen to have a picture of the the PS that comes with it? Wonder how much room it takes? I am putting outdoor enclosures and these power supplies need to go in the enclosures along with a switch and POE for a wireless antenna.

[ando 0]

Ya from what I was told by the distributor the camera will operate off the 12VDC. So in otherwords 12VDC can operate the camera, heater/blower.

 

I did not know about the power supply that came with the camera. I will have to look into that more. Would you happen to have a picture of the the PS that comes with it? Wonder how much room it takes? I am putting outdoor enclosures and these power supplies need to go in the enclosures along with a switch and POE for a wireless antenna.

 

Yes, you can use the power adapters that are included to the camera package, or use an appropriate PoE switch - either of the two ways will do the job to keep camera, blower and heater running.

 

The only problem is when you use a low-quality PoE switch, which claims supporting 15W per port, but actually does not. So, if you are going to go for the PoE solution, look for industrial switches.

 

As for using the adapter that comes with camera package - it is always a very reliable solution, however, it is often too troublesome to do the cabling job - in addition to cat5 cable you would also have to pull power cables from the nearest power supply to the camera.

 

With cat5 cable the PoE should work fine within 100 from switch, it uses 4 wires out of 8 to transmit electricity (wires 4+,5+,7-,.

 

So, to use the power adapter for each camera + pull the power cables, or use PoE Switch instead - the choice is yours. It will work either way!

 

The only ACTi cameras that do not have power adapter in the camera package are mini domes ACM-37xx and ACM-36xx - for those cameras you can buy a PoE injector if you are not going to use PoE switch.

[3RDIGLBL 0]

Thanks ando.

 

From what I can see in the specs it appears that the heater/blower are 12VDC and not POE. Can you confirm that the heater and blower will operate off the POE? My distributor says it will not but they don't always know these things accurately.

 

I have to run power to the enclosures anyhow for the internal ethernet switch and the POE for the wireless antenna. I'm going for an L-Com enclosure that is NEMA 3R and has power receptacles built into the enclosure. It's made specifically for wireless setups. I will not have to go far to plug the camera power supplies in.

 

The big question I have in my first post is for one site there will not be any wireless. There is only one building and 5 cameras. Four of the cameras will be outside and one inside. I am looking for a PDU that can deliver the required power for those outside cameras without me having to plug in 5 separate power supplies. If I can use a POE switch to power the heater/blower then that will be an option but I'm not seeing that I can do that. Thanks.

[ando 0]

Hmm. To be honest, there have not been many tests made with ACM-7411 with PoE support under extreme temeratures.

 

Theoretically, if the PoE switch really provides 15W per channel as it promises, then it should be doable. The reason why PoE is not written in ACTi camera spec for 13.2W consumption is the fear that most switches in the market do not provide promised 15W even though their specs claim to be able to do so. So, if you happen to have a switch in hand that can support 15W per port, please test with it first. Put the camera into freezer (-18C) while testing.

 

The second issue is the external temperature. As long as the outside temperature is not too cold (lets say not colder than -10C inside camera), then only a 3W heating system will run in camera. Should the temperature get colder than that, it will automatically run another 9W heater, so the total consuption of those heaters are already 12W. Altogether overall consumption 13.2W. If the temperature does not get that cold, then nothing to worry at all - almost any PoE switch can do the job then.

 

So, to sum up, PoE should be ok for temperatures above -10C, or, with switches that actually provide 15W as promised. I am somewhat concerned about it, because I spoke to one engineer who had bad experience even with some industrial switches which eventually provided less power than in specs.

[3RDIGLBL 0]

Thanks ando

 

OK then we have concluded that POE may not be the right choice here due to the extreme environmental temperatures and the high risk of a POE switch not being able to handle the load.

 

Is there a PDU than can handle the job? I have no issue with running 18/2 to each camera. Been doing it for years with Siamese cable. Just need to find a PDU that can handle the load.

[VST_Man 1]

a poe switch rated to supply the required acti voltage will work fine. the issue of "more cold" does not make the acti use MORE..........once it cuts on it will ONLY use the rated power.

 

is acti rated down to -40???? hum? that's a very cold temp for any camera and I'd worry about that MORE than the power.

 

I use a simple trendnet with (2) acti's here in Idaho.and yes, it gets cold here.

[3RDIGLBL 0]

Well not many cameras are rated that cold. The issue is more of power it up when it is that cold than maintaining operation down to that cold. I have very cheap $35 bullets here that ran without issue through the record -48F we had last winter. As long as it is operating I have not had one single camera fail to operate in the past two winters up here.

 

I will always use heated enclosures with my box cameras. I'm not worried about the ACTi not working during cold weather so long as it is not powered off. The heater will aid the electronics at keeping the camera interior warm enough to operate. I just need enough power through a PDU. I'm still not convinced that POE will operate the heater. The spec seems to point to the need of a separate 12V supply for the heater.

[thewireguys 3]

Thanks ando.

 

From what I can see in the specs it appears that the heater/blower are 12VDC and not POE. Can you confirm that the heater and blower will operate off the POE? My distributor says it will not but they don't always know these things accurately.

 

I have to run power to the enclosures anyhow for the internal ethernet switch and the POE for the wireless antenna. I'm going for an L-Com enclosure that is NEMA 3R and has power receptacles built into the enclosure. It's made specifically for wireless setups. I will not have to go far to plug the camera power supplies in.

 

The big question I have in my first post is for one site there will not be any wireless. There is only one building and 5 cameras. Four of the cameras will be outside and one inside. I am looking for a PDU that can deliver the required power for those outside cameras without me having to plug in 5 separate power supplies. If I can use a POE switch to power the heater/blower then that will be an option but I'm not seeing that I can do that. Thanks.

 

You need the 12vdc power supply for extended temp ranges. Your distributor is correct. I know from installing them and talking to Dave at Acti.

 

and it is also on the spec sheet and in the manual

 

"-30 ºC ~ 50 ºC (-22 ºF ~ 122 ºF) for DC 12 V; -5 ºC ~ 50 ºC (7 ºF ~ 122 ºF) for PoE"

 

3.4w(DC 12V) w/0 Heater & Fan

13.2 (DC 12V) w/heater ON & Fan ON

4.4w (Poe) w/0 heater & fan

[ando 0]

I made a snapshot of 7411 together with its adapter for you, but too bad the forum won't allow me to upload nor use img tags.

[ando 0]

Here it is:

 

[3RDIGLBL 0]

Thanks Wireguys and ando.

 

I located a PDU that will handle the power requirements of 5 of the cameras and my other site I will be using outdoor enclosures from L-Com and will be using the included power supply.

 

Of course the rated lower temps don't go as low as I need but we all know it should run just fine at lower than that as long as the camera is not powered off in that cold of a temp.

 

I'm looking forward to working with the ACTi ACM-7411.

[thewireguys 3]

I would recommend the Arecont 1.3 for outdoor use...... Much better motion detection.

[ando 0]

I never heard that there are any issues with motion detection. I would be happy to know more about it.

 

In ACM-7411 you can set different motion detection regions on the screen, different sensitivity and trigger levels.

 

Furthermore, in next firmware release (easy for customers to upgrade) there will be a powerful event handler - no other camera manufacturer has it yet.

 

Among hundreds of event types and triggers, you can activate and deactivate motion detection system based on either light sensitivity (day/night), schedule, DI trigger, etc.

 

If there are any difficulties with making the motion detection system work perfectly, I will be around to help you.

 

I assure you, you will love ACM-7411. It is one of the best-selling outdoor cameras. Besides, there will also be TCM-7411 with H.264 supported coming soon. Something to wait for.

[thewireguys 3]

I never heard that there are any issues with motion detection. I would be happy to know more about it.

 

In ACM-7411 you can set different motion detection regions on the screen, different sensitivity and trigger levels.

 

Furthermore, in next firmware release (easy for customers to upgrade) there will be a powerful event handler - no other camera manufacturer has it yet.

 

Among hundreds of event types and triggers, you can activate and deactivate motion detection system based on either light sensitivity (day/night), schedule, DI trigger, etc.

 

If there are any difficulties with making the motion detection system work perfectly, I will be around to help you.

 

I assure you, you will love ACM-7411. It is one of the best-selling outdoor cameras. Besides, there will also be TCM-7411 with H.264 supported coming soon. Something to wait for.

 

Ando welcome to the forum you will be a big help for us!!

 

I issue is the window based motion detection that Acit, Axis and others use. It works fine in controlled lighting conditions but when you setup the camera for outdoors it can be difficult to setup for day and night modes. You may get the camera setup to ignore the image noise in B/W mode but then you might miss triggers in the day time. Your event logic (not the only company.... see Mobotix) will help but it will not be as easy as Areconts motion detection.

 

I find with your day/night cameras I have to make 2 trips to my customers to get the motion working correctly. Once doring the install (day time) then I come back at night and adjust it.

 

If you have any tips or tricks for setting up the motion detection for outdoors I am all ears . Other wise ACTI make a great cost effective MP camera.

[ando 0]

I totally agree with this approach - the motion detection should work perfectly in both day and night conditions. Basically, the definition of ideal motion detection is to have maximum possible sensitivity while not producing false alarms. A good camera should meet this ideal criteria in both day and night time without needing to do any manual changes in the meantime.

 

ACTi has seriously studied this and as a result, already this month there will be a release of new firmware 3.11.xx which contains Event Handler system. The event handler can get a trigger from a day/night switch based on lighting conditions (or even time scheduled trigger if you like), and it can send a URL command to itself, to adjust motion detection sensitivity.

 

As a result, you will have a camera that has an idea motion detection system running automatically in day and night mode.

 

Customers can download and install the new firmware for free, as soon as it is available in the website.

[VST_Man 1]

I don't get it..if the switch is rated to handle the 13w or more.......why would you use a seperate dc supply? I can see using CAT6 for a better wire.........

[thewireguys 3]

I don't get it..if the switch is rated to handle the 13w or more.......why would you use a seperate dc supply? I can see using CAT6 for a better wire.........

 

From what I am getting from Ando's posts he is saying the camera's heater and blower can be powered from a POE switch, but it clearly says in the manual you need 12dv to power the heater/blower in low temps and I have talked to Dave A at Acti and he said use the 12dc.

 

The ones that I have installed I just use POE but I don't need the extended temp range.