Panasonic WV-CW484 Dome vs Cheap LTC Dome w/ 36 IR LED's

[rory 0]

I think the point is simply that a slow shutter isn't an issue in this situation, since what they're actually looking at doesn't change much in the course of two seconds (or two minutes, for that matter... or even two hours, most days). There'd be no point in paying big money for advanced low-light technologies when all you want to see is how the snow looks... and thermal would be particularly useless in that instance.

 

alpine0000, forgive rory - he's in the Bahamas, he doesn't know what snow is

 

True .. i wouldnt mind snow right now though .. its like summer will never end its sooo hot!!

[Sawbones 0]

That Panasonic dome really shines at night. Here is a before-and-after shot. First pic is from an IR-equipped bullet cam... water spots on the lens, spider webs, etc.

 

The second pic is from a Pano 484S dome, with a separate illuminator:

 

all Day Night cameras (bullets included) are supposed to look at least as good as that second image, there is nothing special about it, except it was done correctly

 

Oh... but I've encountered so many that didn't.

 

I'd agree with your statement if you qualified it with "all quality day/night cameras with separate illuminators." Few consumer-grade IR-integrated domes and bullets throw out IR well enough and wide enough to illuminate a scene without blooming it out, or leaving it too dim to recognize anything. I think the WDR of the panasonic helps in this regard.

[rory 0]

Oh... but I've encountered so many that didn't.

 

I'd agree with your statement if you qualified it with "all quality day/night cameras with separate illuminators." Few consumer-grade IR-integrated domes and bullets throw out IR well enough and wide enough to illuminate a scene without blooming it out, or leaving it too dim to recognize anything. I think the WDR of the panasonic helps in this regard.

 

Most True Day Night bullets I have used generally give a good image, the internal IR should be approx 30 degrees and most will go out to at least 50', ofcourse in many instances seperate IR will help alot. But there is always a lemon from some brand here and there as well and then there are the incorrect specs pushed from rebadged cameras. It just has to have the right specs.

 

Color IR cameras, which "some" call Day Night Cameras, will be where you will definitely have issues. In fact I spoke with a sales guy on the phone for a client the other day, he wasnt sure what cameras he had in stock so I told him just pick a True Day Night bullet following the same specs as the CNB bullet I originally wanted, and it MUST have an IR Cut Filter. Then he quotes the client a Color IR 1/4 " Bullet for crying out loud, and it even cost more!! I didnt even think that he would pick a 1/4" and it doesnt even say CCD!! Even the sales guys now adays just dont know what they are selling .. it really makes me mad sometimes. On that note check out CNB they have some decent TRUE day night bullets, stay away from their DSS models thats all. You really cannot depend on sales guys alone these days, you have to check out the specs and stuff as well. CNB was one that impressed me though, and at a much lower cost. Im sure there are others out there also. Even Eclipse's True Day Night bullet is decent as I have used them for years as well. USAG is pushing some now also, just havent used them yet.

 

BTW Domes with Integrated IR are usually crap as far as IR goes, but bullets are totally different "in most cases".

 

Nah, Ive used many Day Night bullets that give as good or a better image that that in a pitch dark setting. Now adays they ARE rare though, seems the manufacturers are just pushing out crap on us to save money now, and there are so many guys selling junk that dont even know its junk.

 

Problem with just about all Bullets, and most domes, they just cant handle light that great, especially direct glare from bright sources. I dont think the location in the image above has that problem though. But thats where the WDR will come in.

[alpine0000 0]

Well, the ski resorts around here have cameras mounted at the top of the mountain just to monitor snow conditions, and the probably dont care if the people skiing are a little blurry in the picture. I guess they use a slower lens, or slower shutter speed, but I dont know?

 

How would that help?

Or does snow look better with a slower shutter?

 

Hello Rory,

 

Admittedly, I am still new to cctv (just got into it about a year and a half ago), and am not 'hip' with setting up shutter speeds yet, so I dont know how that would help. I was just making a guess at why a ski resort 'might' do that, as somebody else had suggested the whole ski resort thing.

 

Snow and weather conditions at a ski resort are one such example

 

Excuse my ignorance sometimes when it comes to shutter speeds and focal stops. But hey, thats why I hang out here with you guys! I am still learning a lot about cameras each day

[Soundy 1]

Well, the ski resorts around here have cameras mounted at the top of the mountain just to monitor snow conditions, and the probably dont care if the people skiing are a little blurry in the picture. I guess they use a slower lens, or slower shutter speed, but I dont know?

 

How would that help?

Or does snow look better with a slower shutter?

 

Hello Rory,

 

Admittedly, I am still new to cctv (just got into it about a year and a half ago), and am not 'hip' with setting up shutter speeds yet, so I dont know how that would help. I was just making a guess at why a ski resort 'might' do that, as somebody else had suggested the whole ski resort thing.

 

Snow and weather conditions at a ski resort are one such example

 

Excuse my ignorance sometimes when it comes to shutter speeds and focal stops. But hey, thats why I hang out here with you guys! I am still learning a lot about cameras each day

 

Quick primer on exposure:

 

Exposure is a balance of three things: imager sensitivity (whether film or an electronic sensor), lens aperture (the size of the iris opening), and shutter speed (how long it remains open). Assuming the sensitivity is fixed (and ignoring things like AGC and other methods of boosting the signal, just for the sake of illustration), as it gets darker, you need to either increase the aperture to allow more light, or leave the shutter open longer to allow the sensor more time to collect light.

 

Now assume that the iris has reached its maximum aperture, and the camera has reached the limit of its AGC and signal boosting ability, and it's still too dark - the only way to get more light is to increase the time the shutter is open.

 

As long as the shutter is open, it's constantly collecting light from the image it's looking at. If something is moving through the image while the shutter is open, that movement will be captured as blur across the image. The shorter the shutter time, the less movement will occur during it, and the less blur you get.

 

Other ways to get around this are to use a lens with a larger maximum aperture, or a camera with a more sensitive imager, or better gain-boosting circuitry.

[Soundy 1]

Oops, hit Submit too soon.

 

So, where this would apply here, is if you were monitoring snow conditions, those aren't going to change much in the matter to a few seconds, assuming you use really long shutter speeds. Now in "standard" CCTV uses, you might want to limit the camera to NOT use longer shutter speeds, to avoid blurring of moving objects. However, this could potentially reduce the camera's low-light response in very dark conditions. In an instance where blur is not a concern, such as monitoring snow conditions, it might be acceptable or even desirable to allow the longer shutter times in order to improve image quality.

[rory 0]

I think you guys are confusing CCTV and IP cameras.

Ive NEVER used Slow shutter and ALL my jobs for the past 10 years have been low light and pitch dark apps.

[Soundy 1]

I think you guys are confusing CCTV and IP cameras.

Ive NEVER used Slow shutter and ALL my jobs for the past 10 years have been low light and pitch dark apps.

 

Exposure basics are the same regardless of what kind of camera you're talking about, film or digital, analog or IP, photo or CCTV.

[zmxtech 0]

the real test is to walk-run past both cameras at night and see which one can ID a face !

 

I bet you will need to crank the shutter up !