looking to upgrade my system !

[volito 0]

Ok bought and set up my cctv system 2 years ago and was never happy with its performance. I needed it many times and was never able to get anything useful out of recordings. I think its time to upgrade because system is pretty useless. I don't want to call online store like last time because I can explain what I want but they never recommend the right stuff. Anyway here is my system:

 

Geovisions GV- 650 capture card in a XP machine 2.8 ghz cpu decent vidoe card and 2gigs of RAM...

 

Cameras are 4 KPC-S50NV1 2 are 6mm and 2 are 3.6 lenses

 

Now I tried different lenses as per salesman and this is the setup they requested.... I cannot even see a face without burr.. forget about zoom nothing...

 

This setup is in front of my home and I need it to see the street which is about 50 to 60 feet long and 50 to 60 feet wide- one camera covering this with a 6mm lens "I believe not sure I would have to double check"...It is also black and white. "would love to get pate numbers also, right know I can hardly make out the car make"

 

camera 2 and 3 are 3.6mm for close ups and to get descriptions of people and faces. Also right now almost impossible to make out faces night or day.

 

 

Basically I need a system that is high in quality day and night able to see plates and faces from say 10 to 30 yards max. I asked the salesperson this last time and obviously he was way off. I told him I wanted to be able to pull an object out of someones hand. Zoom does absolutely nothing right now.

 

thanks in advance! sorry if this is not actually a good post but not really good at cctv systems I can post pic shots of cameras if that will help more....

[bpzle 0]

I'm not familiar with GeoVision systems... BUT just judging by the specs, it appears that the card should be capable of decent analog recording. As I've mentioned before, I don't like going by specs but sometimes that's all you get for troubleshooting and initial purchase...

 

It sounds like your cameras are the weakest link here. What is the lighting like at night? Are there any street lights, driveway lights that stay on, motion lights on the house?

 

What is your budget? Can you afford to go megapixel IP? A couple of these in the front of your house would certain get the detail your looking for...

 

Post some pics of all 4 cams both at day and night. This should help us get an idea of the area to be covered. This site makes it kind of difficult to post pics so if you can't figure it out, PM your link.

[bpzle 0]

Oh, what type of processor is in your PC? The PC may be usable for an upgraded system...

 

Also, are you using the PC for anything else or is this a dedicated DVR?

[volito 0]

thanks for the quick replies !

 

PC is dedicated for cctv only.

 

There is a street light at night I will work on getting pics up as soon as possible. "should have them up by tomorrow"

 

CPU is a Pentium 4 - 2.8ghz with 1 gig of ram

 

Also wires are all ran in walls as I did a reconstruction at the time. BNC connectors with very skinny "mistake" wire !

 

Megapixal IP not even sure what that is _ assuming it is an IP network cam !

should be able to afford it not really sure what budget is right now ! Guess it depends on which way I go...

[bpzle 0]

Yes, IP megapixel cameras are network cameras. Like HD for CCTV. Best part is, AFTER an event is recorded, you can digitally zoom in on areas of interest and see quite a bit of deail. Unlike analog where if you digitally zoom in the picture pixelates and is worthless. Check this out

 

www.cctvforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=17732&highlight=

[Soundy 1]

Cameras are 4 KPC-S50NV1 2 are 6mm and 2 are 3.6 lenses

 

Now I tried different lenses as per salesman and this is the setup they requested.... I cannot even see a face without burr.. forget about zoom nothing...

 

Sounds like there are two problems at play here.

 

First, "blur", especially at night, is generally motion blur caused by a too-slow shutter speed. Unfortunately, you won't be able to adjust that with this camera, so your only solution there, short of replacing the camera, is more light. From what I was able to find about these cameras, they only have 12 LEDs and are rated to *maybe* 30 ft. illumination, so for viewing your street , the IR is all but useless.

 

This setup is in front of my home and I need it to see the street which is about 50 to 60 feet long and 50 to 60 feet wide- one camera covering this with a 6mm lens "I believe not sure I would have to double check"...It is also black and white. "would love to get pate numbers also, right know I can hardly make out the car make"

 

camera 2 and 3 are 3.6mm for close ups and to get descriptions of people and faces. Also right now almost impossible to make out faces night or day.

 

I think you have that backward - the 3.6mm lens would be the wider view, and the 6mm a tighter shot for more detail.

 

Looks like these cameras come with a 3.6mm lens, so you must have switched the 6mm ones yourself - are you sure they're properly focused?

 

There's no way you'll get plates at that range with that coverage, especially not if your trying to capture moving cars. The resolution of analog is just too low.

 

Basically I need a system that is high in quality day and night able to see plates and faces from say 10 to 30 yards max. I asked the salesperson this last time and obviously he was way off. I told him I wanted to be able to pull an object out of someones hand. Zoom does absolutely nothing right now.

 

Well, the Geovision is a decent entry-level PC-based system; that isn't where your problem lies (not most of it, anyway - you might check your record resolution settings, make sure they're as high as possible). The problem here is entirely in your cameras - you need something higher-quality with better low-light performance and/or better illumination. Unfortunately, that won't be particularly cheap.

 

Your skinny "mistake" wire could be part of the problem as well - can you tell us exactly what type of cable it is? If it's not the right type, it could be causing distorted or noisy video that's also reducing your quality.

[volito 0]

Ok hope this post works as I am on my blackberry had to go to work !

 

I am going to post some pics tonight so all can see. Wire is smallest coax possible if I pull it wire will rip. It is giving good live feeds and decent recordings. I believe it is like all is saying cameras are biggest problem. I been looking at the IP cameras as stated above and they look very nice. I really don't have any ethernet wires located near cameras and almost impossible to get a run in that area without tearing walls apart.

 

I guess when I post some pics you all will know my best options quickly.

 

Thanks again for all your help.

[Soundy 1]

You can use devices like HiWires to run ethernet over coax, which would allow you to put in IP cameras, although they aren't particularly cheap, either.

[volito 0]

Interesting that sounds interesting can I also use existing electric wiring. I never actually tried it but I know they have devices to use electrical wiring also. Only asking because of the gauge of coaxial I used is very thin and I like to do this write this time. Also does IP cameras use a dedicated PC as server for viewing recordings. I think my PC might need upgrading as video card is ok. And I also get a dirct draw error now with existing setup. I have another PC that I use for daily use but I guess multitasking with security system is a no no.

[bpzle 0]

Soundy's right. Ethernet over coax is an option but I would make if your absolute last resort in this application. I doubt there's been much testing done on the cheap premade "coax" cables your referring to. Split those open and their more like 22awg/4 stranded wire. I think it would probably be more headaches than its worth. I know you say pulling new wire isn't an option... but I pull wire for a living and believe me, I can put it almost anywhere. Maybe with a little more info and some good faith direction from some pros we can open a few doors that maybe you hadn't thought about..

[bpzle 0]

For example, you may be able to use the old wire to fish the new... First, cut off any connectors on the old cable. Next, get some pull string from home depot. Its made specifically for pulling wire. Its thin, lightweight, and has a high tensile strength. The pull string should not create any resistance pulling the old cable so the old crap cable shouldn't break. Then use high strength pull string to pull the new wire in place. For situations with lots of bends, use some wire lube to greese up the new wire real good. I've used this method before in fishing wires through impossible vaulted ceilings using old CATV coax. It obviously won't work if the old wire was fished through small diameter holes and the new wire won't fit or were it was stapled to studs in the wall.

[volito 0]

Pulling wire will be kinda difficult but not impossible I guess. Remember I ran wire when walls where open. I guess if I have 3 cameras in front of house 2nd floor window. I would have to run one cat6 from first floor office up from router and add another switch upstairs "window" for cameras.

 

How does wireless IP cameras work. I know wired is always more stable but is it an option. Also any comments on running packets over exisiting electrical wire?

[bpzle 0]

I'm afraid I don't have any all in one wireless IP camera experience. I think Axis makes some good ones but I'm sure others could shed more light on what's out there and what to avoid. Another possibility is adding wireless "gaming adapters" to talk to your existing wireless router. Make sure you get one with adequate bandwidth and have a good solid signal strength to your router as signal strength is everything when it comes to speed.

 

As far as ethernet over power adapters... I did look into them one time for a client but to attain the necessary bandwidth requirments we needed, it wasn't going to be cost effective. The cheaper ones less than $100 were really slow... maybe they've improved since then? I believe they are also limited to comunicating on the same phase. Most residential homes have at least 2 and it can be difficult figuring out if the camera will be on the same phase as where your router is. Difficult without the proper tools anyway...

 

Your not the first to try and fight this battle. Lol It seems every other thread on this site is about people trying to avoid pulling new wire... I hear ya it is a PITA but its usually the cheapest and best solution.

[volito 0]

Ok thanks for all the great advise ! I am a true believer of wired is more stable than wireless also. I would start looking at a run of one cat 6 from router to window this weekend. I am also going to pst some pics of camera or just actually put system online so you all can look at it. I believe there is a webpage feature "server". I would look into that tonight and tomorrow morning and hopefully have that ready. Just to double check I would need one cat6 from router to window than just add a switch correct. It would be 100 speed not gigabit as my network is not a up to gig yet.

[bpzle 0]

Cat6 will work, but its more expensive and not necessay. Cat5 would work just fine but if you already have bulk cat6 laying around, why not.

Keep in mind if you do go to IP cameras, some use POE for power and you'll need to buy POE injectors or upgrade your switch to POE, which ever is more cost effective. If you plan on having more than 3 POE IP cameras, I'd recomend upgrading your switch. It's a lot cleaner of a setup, less stuff to go wrong.

[thewireguys 3]

Also any comments on running packets over exisiting electrical wire?

 

 

http://www.aboundi.com/Product/PLC/APL4100-200.html

 

 

This product works very well. I have tried them in every outlet in my house and it always works. Also I have use it to stream 4 1.3 megapixel cameras over powerline and it worked great.

[rory 0]

Post some snapshots of your existing system if you can, perhaps you are doing something wrong.

[volito 0]

Ill have to research some on that.

! off the top off my head gonna assume that is power over ethernet. Ill do some studying of POE and thanks for the info.

[bpzle 0]

Also any comments on running packets over exisiting electrical wire?

 

 

http://www.aboundi.com/Product/PLC/APL4100-200.html

 

 

This product works very well. I have tried them in every outlet in my house and it always works. Also I have use it to stream 4 1.3 megapixel cameras over powerline and it worked great.

 

Sweet! What's the MSRP on that baby?

[thewireguys 3]

Also any comments on running packets over exisiting electrical wire?

 

 

http://www.aboundi.com/Product/PLC/APL4100-200.html

 

 

This product works very well. I have tried them in every outlet in my house and it always works. Also I have use it to stream 4 1.3 megapixel cameras over powerline and it worked great.

 

Sweet! What's the MSRP on that baby?

 

I don't remember..... I only wish it had POE output I have the owners info I talked to him for awhile and I order a demo kit from him to test.

[Soundy 1]

Ok thanks for all the great advise ! I am a true believer of wired is more stable than wireless also. I would start looking at a run of one cat 6 from router to window this weekend. I am also going to pst some pics of camera or just actually put system online so you all can look at it. I believe there is a webpage feature "server". I would look into that tonight and tomorrow morning and hopefully have that ready.

 

Remember, one of the benefits of IP is that you don't have to home-run every camera. If, say, all four cameras are on one side of the third floor of the house, and the DVR is on the opposite side of the basement, you can put a switch on the third floor, connect all the cameras to that, then just drop a single cable to the basement for the DVR.

 

Just to double check I would need one cat6 from router to window than just add a switch correct.

 

The cameras can plug directly into the router, if it has enough ports available. This should suffice for initial testing.

 

It would be 100 speed not gigabit as my network is not a up to gig yet.

 

Most cameras have only 10/100 ports on them anyway. Where gigabit comes in handy is between the switch and the DVR, especially with more cameras running higher res or framerates, because that's where you're funneling all the data from the cameras.

 

Gigabit isn't a burning necessity right off the top. Neither is Cat6, for that matter - Cat5e should do just fine at a lot lower cost (unless you already have the Cat6).

[volito 0]

Yes getting all this thanks.

 

As for dvr can I use existing pc and get a new capture card. Right now I have two pcs and use a kvm switch to go back and forth from main pc to dedicated cctv pc. Or do I have to get a dvr unit ?

[Soundy 1]

You can add a DVR card and software to pretty much any existing PC, as long as it's powerful enough for what you're trying to do with it. Some cards are also fussy about the motherboard, chipset, or processor type you try to run them with. As long as your "spare" PC meets the spec for the card you get, you should be fine.

[blake 0]

Remember, one of the benefits of IP is that you don't have to home-run every camera. If, say, all four cameras are on one side of the third floor of the house, and the DVR is on the opposite side of the basement, you can put a switch on the third floor, connect all the cameras to that, then just drop a single cable to the basement for the DVR.

 

Can't you do the same thing with analog cams by using a UTP transciever? Camera all plug into one transceiver,RJ45 from one transceiver to the other,than coax from that transceiver into dvr.

[volito 0]

http://www.nymetrofishing.com/cctv/cctv.htm

 

here goes some pics at night hope this works!

 

"notice pic on bottom with person running - pretty useless cannot get a face or nothing...

 

I would love to cover this whole area with the three angles shown in pic. Would be great to see what type of car is passing possibly get a plate at right angle

 

see whose in car also

 

See peoples faces walking by and possibility see what is even in there hands.

 

don't even know if this is all possible ! that's why i am here to learn about this so I don't waste more money !

Edited November 6, 2009 by Guest