long range wireless video

[bs953 0]

I have a project I am bidding on, it is on a ranch. Customer has a 'house' that is about 1/2 mile away straight line of sight, they need two cams over there, currently there using two cams there with an outdated wireless transmission setup, it is failing. I have convinced them to go with wireless IP cameras. Two problems present 1) Do I have to use use two antennas for each camera? ergo both of the cams can be directly pointed to the 'receiving antenna', or am I going to have to use four antennas for two cams? (two transmit and two receive) 2) I assume then at the receive antenna(s), that my wireless router will then pick up the signal? That unit being only 30' feet away and in clear line of sight.

 

I was looking at hawking antennas, but am concerned about connecting that antenna to the camera itself. I have emailed them but no response yet.

 

To further complicate matters, they need an additional 4 cams that will be wireless ip also coming in from a different direction. These I can mount high though. I am wondering, is it feasible to hard wire these cams, could I in theroy hard wire the cams to a wireless router, then have that router hooked up to a tranmitting antenna, pointing at the house?

Any suggestions would be very much appreciated. Thank You

[hardwired 0]

There are a number of threads you can search here for tips on this. My suggestion is to never use cameras with built in wireless, or consumer grade routers.

 

Using products from a company like Ubiquiti, www.ubnt.com will give far better results. The stuff is quite a bit cheaper than you'd expect, too.

 

A single access point at the recording location, your two cameras wired into a PoE switch, and then to one wireless remote, and the other four cameras with one PoE switch and wireless remote going back to the access point should be all you need (and, obviously, recording equipment, a PC with NVR software or similar)

 

This is somewhat dependent on bandwidth, standard resolution cameras at a medium frame rate should be fine, high frame rates or megapixel cams may require a little more planning.

[bs953 0]

thank you!

[bs953 0]

Thanx hardwired. However even after over 6 hours of research I am still plumb stuck on stupid.

 

So I am thinking best to just lay it out there. I have a budget of 7k + or -

with the exception of 2 cameras these are line of sight out in the country, no obstructions. I have 120v at all camera locations. I am not allowed to mount anything on the house. They have a pole about 30 feet in front that has the current antennas mounted to it, then hardwired from there to the house. I want to use a wireless router or AP in the house to access those signals. I am attaching hopefully an image of the layout with distances thanx to google earth.

 

 

 

Now as I said this all line of sight, all the signals need to get into the pc somehow, via cat 5 to the AP/Router? I want to get a gigabit router, I will install a gigabit nic in the pc.

Now I can also go with a NVR or something similiar?

The cams all have to be outside cams obviously, I have read so many opinions on using the radio in the cams Vs not using them? I would like to be able to disconnect the out of box antenna and hook up something like a directional, hawking comes to mind?

I am still unclear as to wether or not I need to have a transmitting antenna and a recieving antenna?

What I could really use here folks is a 1,2,3 list of what I need so I can start on pricing. I have sent emails to about 7 companies and nobody has replied. As to the cameras, they need to be either 1.3 megs cams or just a notch under.

 

Thank You

[hardwired 0]

Here's my .02$ worth... Do not ever use cameras with built in WiFi, unless you are a masochist...

 

Quantity (7) Ubiquiti NSM5 radios, 6 will be used as remotes, one as Access Point on pole in front of house, Cat5 into house from there.. ~$700 retail total.

 

6 Phihong PoE injectors, psa16u-480, $27.50 each retail= $165 allows powering remote radio and camera with one supply, cable goes from power injector to radio to PoE camera.

 

6 Acti ACM-7411 domes, $1300 retail each, (but you'll be able to do a lot better than that ) $7800. There are a lot of choices in cams available, dig around on the forum here for ideas... Panasonic Megapixel dome is a great cam, too, but pricey...keep in mind Megapixel cams are going to be somewhat limited in low light performance, compared to standard res...

 

(6) Exacq IP camera licenses, ~$150.00/ channel.+ =$900.00

 

Decent PC to run S/W ~$750 or so ...

 

Assorted hardware, boxes, etc $150 or so...

 

RETAIL 10K or so, but with some creative shopping, you'll get close to your mark.

[bs953 0]

ok thank you. I would only need to run POE if I did not have power? correct? I have power at every camera location.

 

So from your suggestion: Get a "regular" camera and plug that into a radio? Is that what I am getting here?

 

Then if I am not going to wifi into the house, your saying I should cat from the access point into............I assume that I can hook up a cat five to the access point? As you can see I am a little more confused here now. They have a good pc, quad core etc. I don't quite understand why the radio built in makes a difference, if I am going to disconnect the antenna.....but on that I will trust to judgement. What do I use to get the video to the pc? Thanx

[hardwired 0]

ok thank you. I would only need to run POE if I did not have power? correct? I have power at every camera location.

 

So from your suggestion: Get a "regular" camera and plug that into a radio? Is that what I am getting here?

 

Then if I am not going to wifi into the house, your saying I should cat from the access point into............I assume that I can hook up a cat five to the access point? As you can see I am a little more confused here now. They have a good pc, quad core etc. I don't quite understand why the radio built in makes a difference, if I am going to disconnect the antenna.....but on that I will trust to judgement. What do I use to get the video to the pc? Thanx

 

 

Yes, I meant to use a standard IP camera with no wireless, and connect them to the wireless remotes.

 

The PoE injector will allow you to power both the camera, and the radio, from one supply. If you wanted, you could use the power supply that comes with the wireless unit (it powers over the Cat5 cable, but would not power the camera, you'd use a separate transformer for that. Your choice, there.)

 

The Cat5 cable would run between the outdoor access point receiving the remote camera signals, and an interior network switch connected with the PC. The wireless hardware I quoted is not compatible with home wireless networking equipment.

 

If you already have a PC to devote to the task, all the better.

[bs953 0]

ok now I am seeing the light somewhat. The IP cams will plug directly into the radios via cat 5, that then would transmit to the house? where I reverse the process...then try to elaborate on this please:

The Cat5 cable would run between the outdoor access point receiving the remote camera signals, and an interior network switch connected with the PC. The wireless hardware I quoted is not compatible with home wireless networking equipment

 

Thanx

 

Oh do I have to use a PC or can use something else dedicated? like a DSReal Vue Xpress? (I have about 20 of them)

[hardwired 0]

According to the specs on that recorder, you can use IP cameras, but you have to purchase a license for each channel of IP video, not sure how much that is. You'd obviously need to pick a camera model supported by the recorder.

 

All the remote radios would transmit to the access point on the pole outside the house. From there, Cat5 cable will carry the IP camera data to the recorder. You do not need any wireless equipment in the house, just a network switch that will connect the recorder to the wireless receiver outside (and, presumably, a internet connection there, as well, for remote access.)

[bs953 0]

ok so the AP, now is that like for example a DWL2100AP? I wouldn't use that brand just happen to have one sitting on the bench. I am still a little foggy on the AP part. A single "rec" antenna for the two cams across the street? Another for the two down at the gate. Although all four of those are generally pointing in the same direction. I would definetly need another "rec" antenna for the far side of the house.

 

As to the AP, I would have to build a 'bird house' for the AP so it is under cover? Also I am not sure I can run cat 5 in the exsisting conduit that they have going out to the pole. I am almost postive that it isnt feasible. That is why I was hoping to be able to have a wifi AP in the house with a directional pointing at the 'pole' and then from that to the pc/dvr via cat 5.

[thewireguys 3]

ok so the AP, now is that like for example a DWL2100AP? I wouldn't use that brand just happen to have one sitting on the bench. I am still a little foggy on the AP part. A single "rec" antenna for the two cams across the street? Another for the two down at the gate. Although all four of those are generally pointing in the same direction. I would definetly need another "rec" antenna for the far side of the house.

 

As to the AP, I would have to build a 'bird house' for the AP so it is under cover? Also I am not sure I can run cat 5 in the exsisting conduit that they have going out to the pole. I am almost postive that it isnt feasible. That is why I was hoping to be able to have a wifi AP in the house with a directional pointing at the 'pole' and then from that to the pc/dvr via cat 5.

 

You will need one access point per camera and one to receive the signal from the all of the cameras. So 6 for the cameras and 1 to receive. The Ubiquiti's are outdoor rated so you don't have to cover or protect them.

 

If you can't run a wire I would get 2 more access points to create a back bone link from the pole to the house but a cat5 would be best. Hardwired do you agree?

Edited November 15, 2009 by Guest

[hardwired 0]

The Ubiquiti stuff is kind of like that DWL2100AP on steroids, close to five times the throughput capability, the unit I'm describing can work as an access point, or remote, and connect to dozens, or more, of remote units...It is equipment used by wireless internet providers to get connectivity to many subscribers, over many miles, to a single access point.

 

The access point I'm describing IS directional, over about a thirty degree angle... but even aimed at the units away from the barns, I think it will work for the barn, at that distance. You could also use the Ubiquiti BulletM5, with a omnidirectional antenna, as the AP unit on the pole.

 

You could use a secondary pair of these units, on a different channel, to relay the signal inside, or you could use something like the Veracity highwire, http://www.veracityusa.com/products/hwpoe/hwpoe.php ,to send the Ethernet signal, and power, for the access point into the house on existing coax.

[VST_Man 1]

I just installed a system that had the following;

- Engenious with Omni as the Access Point with a wireless router inside the house.

- (3) outlying buildings with routers connected to Engenious directional. All line-of-site. furthest distance was 800ft. All works great without any issues.

- installed a 4 channel DVR (avermedia) with 4 cams on the longest 800ft. link. This connects to a Aver 6480e quad at the house providing backup recordings.

- all other links are JUST internet access.

- main internet acces is a microwave link at 8 miles. 3000 down & 1.7 up.

 

I would suggest that you go omni and then directional back to the main building.

 

call http://www.wirelessnetworkproducts.com/index.asp?PageAction=MFGSEARCH&ManfID=1139&Page=1 and tell them your distances and they will match it with the right equipment.

 

- you can eliminate the wireless routers if you add a switch, but, for da money get a wireless router, turn off dhcp on the outying rouyters, ect.

- wireless cams work but like stated before, go wire over wireless if you can

- acti has a nice small dome out, the acti acm-3701....got one here testing it. same pic as the 7411.........small as everything.

 

- go with 2.4 considering your distances.....

[hardwired 0]

I just installed a system that had the following;

- Engenious with Omni as the Access Point with a wireless router inside the house.

- (3) outlying buildings with routers connected to Engenious directional. All line-of-site. furthest distance was 800ft. All works great without any issues.

- installed a 4 channel DVR (avermedia) with 4 cams on the longest 800ft. link. This connects to a Aver 6480e quad at the house providing backup recordings.

- all other links are JUST internet access.

- main internet acces is a microwave link at 8 miles. 3000 down & 1.7 up.

 

I would suggest that you go omni and then directional back to the main building.

 

call http://www.wirelessnetworkproducts.com/index.asp?PageAction=MFGSEARCH&ManfID=1139&Page=1 and tell them your distances and they will match it with the right equipment.

 

- you can eliminate the wireless routers if you add a switch, but, for da money get a wireless router, turn off dhcp on the outying rouyters, ect.

- wireless cams work but like stated before, go wire over wireless if you can

- acti has a nice small dome out, the acti acm-3701....got one here testing it. same pic as the 7411.........small as everything.

 

- go with 2.4 considering your distances.....

 

The 3701 is a nice cam, I've used a few... but it's only a fixed lens, not varifocal, and no mechanical IR cut filter for night...really small, and tough, though.. They had a video at ISC where they were beating it with a fire extinguisher!

 

The Engenius is nice stuff, but they don't have "N" rate stuff down like Ubiquiti.. And why not use 5.8 GHz stuff, same price, less interference?

[VST_Man 1]

like I said, call and let them spec it.that way it's done right. One other reason why we used 2.4 is so they can get any standard wireless device on the network...........

[bs953 0]

OK wow now I feel like I am coming out of the stone age! let me see if I can get all the cut and paste quotes down here.

 

I looked at this product:

HD26912-5

EOC-2610

Outdoor AP/Client Bridge

This is a 5 pack of radios. EOC-2610 is a Long Range outdoor wireless Access Point/Client Bridge that operates seamlessly in the 2.4GHz frequency spectrum and provides high bandwidth up to 108Mbps with SuperG. EOC-2610 features high transmit output power and high receive sensitivity. High output power and high sensitivity can extend range and coverage to reduce the roaming between Access Points and to deliver a more stable wireless connection. It also reduces deployment expenses on the equipments.

 

EOC-2610 supports distance control by 1km to 30km and RSSI indicator, which enable the best transmit and receive signals for superior wireless performance. This outdoor device comes with a PoE injector (24V) for easy outdoor deployment.

 

They are claiming a 30 KM distance at max, am i to assume that is 18 miles? givr or take an inch?

This unit also claims to have 5 radios, IF I am learning fast here (thanx to all of you) I can infer from that staement, then that I can jam four cameras for sure at this unit? or five if I am feeling froggy! One concern I guess would be the throughput? at approx 102 Mpbs (less in reality) runiing 4 cams at this thing, conservatly would give me about 25Mbps per cam. One would think that is plenty of bandwidth. I would have to go crunch the numbers. The other thing I like about this deal is that I can access wirelessly...NO wires involved. YEAH. Plus unlike the NSM5, I have the data I need right now to make an informed choice including prices. So i don't have to go clicking and farting around. With the 26912 I even have intelligible antenna patterns. I don't feel that 2.4 Ghz out in the coontry is going to be an issue, H-plane co polarization in a vertical mount looks to be the ticket! Also for $367.00, I get five in one! yeah sign me up. Now I have to keep looking at the transmitting antennas.

Ok so any opinions on me just sticking with these guys for the wireless portion of this job?

I MUST get this 'beta' finalized tonight, when I do I will post my line item (lol) parts list. Then make an informed phone call tomorrow to see what the deal is all the way around. Again I want to thank everybody, this "do it right" wireless is a first for me, done tons of others but not like this. And of course pixs will be posted once it is up and running, so everybody can see the system they helped build!

[VST_Man 1]

the Acess Point will require a Omni external antenna. All 5 have a internal directional built in.......so the outlying radio's will be pointed towards the Omni. If you can, go with a High Power output on the Omni and/or all 5...that way you'll be able to install with confidence that you'll have plenty of db/gain...........if you cut it close you'll be sorry

 

the actual distances are directly dependant on distance + power/db = bandwidth. other factors such as trees....can kill a signal and/or shorten the distance & bandwidth.

 

25meg between all is fine but your actual "sharing" of the bandwidth will be dependant on actual usage at the time.

 

like I stated, I already have this same type system installed and running with ZERO problems or bandwidth issues. Runnin 4 IP cams over one link and then sharing the internet access to 2 other buildings. clean link. Main house has a PTZ, Engenious, Omni, all on one 1" 1/4 TV antenna pole.........works great.

[bs953 0]

I am working through this and getting places. Does anybody know what the dealio is FOR SURE 100% positive on the DS Xpress series if I am going to need a lisc for each non Pelco IP camera or will the single lisc that came with the unit cover all 16? Or if I use Pelco IP cams I only need the single lisc?

 

Also any clues as to pricing on lisc if any for that particular unit? Thanx

 

just about got the equipment list together......I am trying to decide if I wanna use the DS Xpress or just build the customer a quad core unit I7 based....all within the budget on that.

[bs953 0]

How about these specs for cams, I can get these for #### a pop:

 

Model Number - IP7330

•System - CPU: VVTK-1000 SoC. Flash: 8MB. RAM: 32MB. Embedded OS: Linux 2.4.

•Lens - Board lens, dual-band, f= 4.0 mm, F1.8, Fixed. IR corrected.

•Angle of View - 56 deg (horizontal). 42 deg (vertical). 71 deg (diagonal)

•Shutter Time - 1/5 sec. to 1/15000 sec.

•Image Sensor - 1/4" CMOS sensor in VGA resolution

•Minimum Illumination - 0 Lux / F1.8 (IR LED on)

•IR Illuminators - IR LED x 12 (850 nm). Effective up to 10 meters.

•Video - Compression: MJPEG & MPEG-4. Streaming: Simultaneous dual-stream. MPEG-4 streaming over UDP, TCP, HTTP, or HTTPS. MPEG-4 multicast streaming. MJPEG streaming over HTTP or HTTPS. Supports 3GPP mobile surveillance. Frame rates: MPEG-4: 640x480 up to 30/25fps. MJPEG: 640x480 up to 30/25fps.

[thewireguys 3]

How about these specs for cams, I can get these for xxx a pop:

 

Model Number - IP7330

•System - CPU: VVTK-1000 SoC. Flash: 8MB. RAM: 32MB. Embedded OS: Linux 2.4.

•Lens - Board lens, dual-band, f= 4.0 mm, F1.8, Fixed. IR corrected.

•Angle of View - 56 deg (horizontal). 42 deg (vertical). 71 deg (diagonal)

•Shutter Time - 1/5 sec. to 1/15000 sec.

•Image Sensor - 1/4" CMOS sensor in VGA resolution

•Minimum Illumination - 0 Lux / F1.8 (IR LED on)

•IR Illuminators - IR LED x 12 (850 nm). Effective up to 10 meters.

•Video - Compression: MJPEG & MPEG-4. Streaming: Simultaneous dual-stream. MPEG-4 streaming over UDP, TCP, HTTP, or HTTPS. MPEG-4 multicast streaming. MJPEG streaming over HTTP or HTTPS. Supports 3GPP mobile surveillance. Frame rates: MPEG-4: 640x480 up to 30/25fps. MJPEG: 640x480 up to 30/25fps.

 

MSRP on that camera is not xxx$

Edited November 16, 2009 by Guest

[bs953 0]

no that is my account price and that is what I can buy them for. Just wondering about the specs

[thewireguys 3]

no that is my account price and that is what I can buy them for. Just wondering about the specs

 

Please don't post dealer pricing.

[bs953 0]

oh ok I don't recall mentioning dealer pricing? I just tossed a number in there. I was only replying to the response. I was advised to do 'diligent' shopping and following that sage advice, that is what I am doing. I assume then that it is ok for the other guys to post prices? There has been plenty of prices tossed about on this particular project. I have no intention of stepping across that invisible unknown line.

[thewireguys 3]

oh ok I don't recall mentioning dealer pricing? I just tossed a number in there. I was only replying to the response. I was advised to do 'diligent' shopping and following that sage advice, that is what I am doing. I assume then that it is ok for the other guys to post prices? There has been plenty of prices tossed about on this particular project. I have no intention of stepping across that invisible unknown line.

 

You can post prices but it must be MSRP not dealer or "account prices".

 

"Please refrain from posting special prices available only to dealers or installers in our forums. When in doubt, post the MSRP. "

[bs953 0]

got it