How to avoid "smart" customers?

[robert 0]

Guy walks into the door with drawing and photos of his house wanting a detailed quote for CCTV system. I do lense calculation, suggest cameras, PC spec and storage space amount etc. Then he walks away with "I have to compare with few other quotes and then I`ll get back to you". Never hearing from him again you drive past his house and see there is a CCTV already installed. What happened - when he knows every single piece of kit he needs, he just buys everything himself and gets somebody to install it.

 

How to avoid that? You cannot just put "CCTV camera" or "lense" in qoute, customer wont take that, you must put "CCTV camera Samsung AA-555" etc.

 

Whats your experience?

[scorpion 0]

It is a slippery slope.

 

I tell them that I would have to go out to the house, and I would have to see it to make a quote.

 

(This would not work if they are just buying equipment)

 

I tell them that I charge $100.00 for a site survey, and they get the $100.00 value back when they purchased equipment.

 

 

I try to prequalify clients to the best that I can.

 

I see what you mean. People question you about minute details, and then they leave your shop, and go to the Walton Warehouse, and buy a kit.

 

The deeper the questions become, the more I say "This is why you are hiring me. I will take care of everything for you".

 

I use fake model numbers so that they cannot google them, and to throw off their research.

 

I may abbreviate ECL-599 to just 599.

 

The more someone is pushing me for brand names, and model numbers the more I push "How much is your budget". Those type are more likely to tell you what you want to hear.

 

You can try phrases such as "If I get you twice the quality at a really great price would you buy it right now"?

 

Watch the body language.

 

If they start pressuring you about product specifics I then give them a line such as "I do not know product specific as I deal with 20 vendors, and I am going to contact each one to strike a deal as they owe me one".

 

"I may have a sales person at that company who may win a Caribbean Cruise for selling 20 units, and they may be sitting on number 19, and they maybe willing to lose a commision to win the prize, and I can probably get you a really great deal"!

 

I will also call some of the other CCTV companies, and forwarn them of extremely difficult customers. I pass on vehicle type, and what questions they were asking, and what products I quoted.

 

This only works if you have a working relationship with the other companies.

 

I have great communications with other CCTV companies, and we help each other when in need such as a delivery that did not meet a deadline, and someone needs to borrow wire, connectors, power supplys, or what have you.

 

I will even call other companies, and give them heads up on jobs that are right up their alley, and they send me info on jobs that are more suited for me that they would not have an interest in.

 

What do you think?

[robert 0]

I use fake model numbers so that they cannot google them, and to throw off their research.

 

I may abbreviate ECL-599 to just 599.

 

But what if they ask "Could you please print me leaflet for this camera from manufacturers website" ?

[scorpion 0]

You will have to use the "tools" that best suite your situation.

 

Perhaps I might say. That one is $highprice from my main vendor, but I have a vendor who gets them factory direct with better pricing, but I need to get in contact with them for my pricing.

 

What is your email, and I will send it to you.

 

Those who are "shopping", and buying elsewhere will find every excuse not to give you their email.

 

I do not know about your area, but where I am getting emails so I can send out a quote is very exeptable by customers with no problems. They may only ask "I am not going to be sold on a list am I"? I tell them, and asure them that I do not sell the information.

 

You will pretty much have to come up with your own solutions to each situations.

 

I can spot those customers that I would not rather deal with as soon as they walk in the door.

 

I may direct them to a display while I attend to the next customer, and bounce back and forth while I keep them occupied with displays.

[scorpion 0]

I use fake model numbers so that they cannot google them, and to throw off their research.

 

I may abbreviate ECL-599 to just 599.

 

But what if they ask "Could you please print me leaflet for this camera from manufacturers website" ?

 

Is this one from another vendor, or is this your product?

I would say you will have to have cut sheets. You can post prices if you want, but you can tell them the price is MSRP, but I can get you better pricing once I talk to my vendor.

 

I have an auto dialer that I press a button to make my phone ring, and I tell them to hold on while I put "customers on hold".

 

I back up three lines, and go back to him. Hopefully this will put the customer in a frame of mind that you are in demand, and that he should go with you, or you are too busy for him to "play games" with you.

 

I do not need the auto dialer as much as when I first opened up, but it comes in handy to get rid of the truely crazy as well.

[buellwinkle 0]

Being on the customer side where I'm brought in as a consultant to review bids, I have to see all the specifics and I tell them up front, I don't want you to bid generic cameras with generic specs, I want detail like it was going into a contract. I have to see what they are going to install, it's part of the SOW. I had projects go bad when they vendor spec'ed Sony cameras and installed chinese crap with Sony sensors. So all the stuff is pulled, vendor loses money on labor, customer loses a month of no cameras.

 

So it's a fine line between giving them too much info where they can shop your quote and making it too vague where it leads to dissatisfaction. I never shop quotes, but that doesn't mean others don't, just part of life.

[scorpion 0]

Being on the customer side where I'm brought in as a consultant to review bids, I have to see all the specifics and I tell them up front, I don't want you to bid generic cameras with generic specs, I want detail like it was going into a contract. I have to see what they are going to install, it's part of the SOW. I had projects go bad when they vendor spec'ed Sony cameras and installed chinese crap with Sony sensors. So all the stuff is pulled, vendor loses money on labor, customer loses a month of no cameras.

 

So it's a fine line between giving them too much info where they can shop your quote and making it too vague where it leads to dissatisfaction. I never shop quotes, but that doesn't mean others don't, just part of life.

 

This does not sound right to me. I have worked with several "consultants".

 

It is usually the other way around. They make up the spec, and send it out to everyone for bid, and the one whose bid is excepted is the winner.

 

If the consultant is asking for product specs then I may be apt to think they do not know what they are doing, and they are collecting a paycheck without providing a service to the paying customer.

 

I would have to avoid this bid as the customer may have a failure. The consultant is going to blame me, and I am going to blame the consultant. I am not going to eat something unless there is a large mark up. There is not much of a mark up because the consultant should be protecting his client. You might have a wrong lens selection for a view.

 

Who is to blame?

 

I know this is not the case with you, but you can have fun here in Fl with all of the wanna be's.

[tweak'e 0]

Guy walks into the door with drawing and photos of his house wanting a detailed quote for CCTV system. I do lense calculation, suggest cameras, PC spec and storage space amount etc. Then he walks away with "I have to compare with few other quotes and then I`ll get back to you". Never hearing from him again you drive past his house and see there is a CCTV already installed. What happened - when he knows every single piece of kit he needs, he just buys everything himself and gets somebody to install it.

 

 

Whats your experience?

 

if he can buy the gear cheaper elsewhere and get labour cheaper then your charging to much. thats the whole idea of getting quotes.

if they have bought cheap nasty gear and cheap know nothing labour then the job will reflect that and odds are you will get a repair job out of it later on.

 

DIY's i have no problem with and will help out as much as i can. you where never going to get the job out of them anyway but if you ignore them you will get no work from anyone.

 

the only ones that piss me right off is the pro's who do that. ie a sparky that wants you to design it all so they can install it and make themselves the $$$. worse is the ones that install it all then when it doesn't work tell the customer to get a professional in to fix it !

i've even had the cheaky buggers wanting me to teach them how to do my job ! ! ! FFS !

[Sawbones 0]

I had my first CCTV system (four analog cameras, on an Axis server) professionally installed as part of a larger bid (rewiring my home's coax, running multiple cat5 drops all over the house, doing central home audio, etc). It was a pretty extensive job... and I could have done it all myself, but I was in the process of moving, working full-time, and just didn't have the extra hours in the day to do it.

 

I put out feelers for/to about six different alarm and security companies (that also advertised networking and audio) for bids. A couple of them never returned phone calls, two didn't even bother to show up, and two actually did show up.

 

I went with the lower of the bids, and they did a pretty decent job (he beat the other guy by about 2k).

 

I don't feel like I wasted anybody's time... in fact, a bunch of people wasted MY time, considering I was the guy laying out the big bucks for a multi-thousand-dollar job. To not even show up? That's just rude.

 

For my own part, I deal with people honestly in my profession... and I've have been plenty pissed if somebody gave me bogus model numbers, or colluded with a bunch of their buddies to charge me a higher price. That's called price-fixing; it's illegal under anti-trust laws. You can be sued for triple damages AND attorneys fees.

[patto 0]

Don't be serious with smart customers. It's normal case that sometimes we meet nice customers and sometimes we meet smart customers.

[alanjh1965 0]

I have an auto dialer that I press a button to make my phone ring, and I tell them to hold on while I put "customers on hold".

I must try that when the Wife wants me to help out with the Chores ''Sorry Dear just got a Callout to go to''

[Sawbones 0]

I don't know why you WOULDN'T want an educated consumer. It's one thing if they're grifters who are trying to chisel you out of your knowledge and not compensate you. On the other hand, if they educated consumers who know what to expect, and understand the capabilities of CCTV (and are realistic about what kind of pictures can be had at a certain price-point), you're more likely to be able to work with them, and get a satisfied customer.

 

Smaller systems are one thing... you're going to have a hard time beating the Sam's Club and Costco system-in-a-box stuff. Higher-end CCTV is a luxury item for most people. At the kind of price-point where good CCTV systems sit, there aren't that many people who can lay out that kind of scratch.. and given that those types of individuals probably run in similar social circles, word-of-mouth can generate referrals that you'd otherwise never see.

 

If Steve the Maxillofacial Surgeon asks Joe the Orthopedic Surgeon where he got his great CCTV system, do you really want him to tell a harrowing tale of the installer that tried to BS him, fix prices with his buddies, and install something that didn't meet his expectations... or would you rather have him hand the Plastic Surgeon your business card with the recommendation that "these guys did a good job, and they'll take care of you?"

[rory 0]

the educated ones are fine, they know what they want which makes it easier. if they dont know but are just smart azzes and are annoying then i walk away.

[scorpion 0]

If Steve the Maxillofacial Surgeon asks Joe the Orthopedic Surgeon where he got his great CCTV system, do you really want him to tell a harrowing tale of the installer that tried to BS him, fix prices with his buddies, and install something that didn't meet his expectations... or would you rather have him hand the Plastic Surgeon your business card with the recommendation that "these guys did a good job, and they'll take care of you?"

 

You said it perfectly! Well said. No one here on this post ever complained of a smart customer that I am aware of. I think everyone on this post would agree a "smart customer" IS the best customer.

 

Smart customers do not ask intensive questions to learn a system. They will hire you for your expertise instead.

 

Smart customers are not rude, and take up three hours of your time while three potential customer come in, and never get the opportunity to ask questions, and they leave empty handed except for picking up a business card.

 

Smart customers make appointments because they want you to see their house before a design is issued.

 

Smart customers ask smart questions that can be answered because they need knowledge to compare models, brands, and "put in the latest technology hype".

 

Smart customers do not ask questions in a manner that you have to whip out your professor hat, and provide a full course in IR cameras, lens selection, compression methods, hard disk drive capacity selection, wireless vs wired.

 

I see that you are offended by price fixing. I must of missed that thread as I never seen anyone talking about price fixing. I would think that it would be impossible to do so, and pay for a brick and mortar store. I do believe an online website might be able to do so, but search engine study would preclude that site from the selection.

 

If you think someone is price fixing then it should be acted on. I think you should report it to the state attorney of the one that you are accusing.

 

If you do not then you are part of the problem, and not the solution?

 

I think the post below your post where you have accused someone of price fixing should have a request to the Admin to remove said person/company from the forum. I do not think anyone on the forum would want someone, or a company to be doing that as it would give all of us a black eye. It is bad enough that trunk thumpers give our business a bad name let alone a "supposed" respected dealer.

 

It's one thing if they're grifters who are trying to chisel you out of your knowledge and not compensate you.

 

I thought that this was the complaint of most dealers, and the subject of the post?

 

_________________________________________________________

 

OK everyone! Lets hear your favorite story about a grifter who tried to chisel you out of your knowledge.

[zmxtech 0]

I just quoted a 16 cam hi res IP system, they knocked it back and said we can get 32 analogs for the same price ... aghh!

 

The same people who complained about their blurry pictures to me.

 

i`ll have my 16 Porches they can have their 32 volkswagons !

 

shyte.....

[ben_indo 0]

I just quoted a 16 cam hi res IP system, they knocked it back and said we can get 32 analogs for the same price ... aghh!

 

The same people who complained about their blurry pictures to me.

 

i`ll have my 16 Porches they can have their 32 volkswagons !

 

shyte.....

 

happen all the time

[Scruit 0]

So wait... Customer comes in for a quote, and tells you he's comparing quotes... And at some later time you see he has CCTV installed...

 

You are saying that he used your expertise that you put in your quote to purchase the gear you specified and install it himself, right?

 

How you you know he didn't just find a cheaper quote, like he said he was looking for?

[WRS_Mark 0]

So wait... Customer comes in for a quote, and tells you he's comparing quotes... And at some later time you see he has CCTV installed...

 

You are saying that he used your expertise that you put in your quote to purchase the gear you specified and install it himself, right?

 

How you you know he didn't just find a cheaper quote, like he said he was looking for?

 

Exactly. I had that happen to me a while back as well. Customer told me he was looking for a system which will meet certain specifications, I put together a quote after visiting his business, called him back for feedback, was told he is still "thinking about it", drove by a couple weeks later and he had cameras up. Big deal. It happens all the time for one reason or another and all I can do is make sure the people who pay me for the equipment I sell and install are happy with what they get then maybe they will pass on my name. Next!

[Bruce jimmy 0]

I had my first CCTV system (four analog cameras, on an Axis server) professionally installed as part of a larger bid (rewiring my home's coax, running multiple cat5 drops all over the house, doing central home audio, etc). It was a pretty extensive job... and I could have done it all myself, but I was in the process of moving, working full-time, and just didn't have the extra hours in the day to do it.

 

I put out feelers for/to about six different alarm and security companies (that also advertised networking and audio) for bids. A couple of them never returned phone calls, two didn't even bother to show up, and two actually did show up.

 

I went with the lower of the bids, and they did a pretty decent job (he beat the other guy by about 2k).

 

I don't feel like I wasted anybody's time... in fact, a bunch of people wasted MY time, considering I was the guy laying out the big bucks for a multi-thousand-dollar job. To not even show up? That's just rude.

 

For my own part, I deal with people honestly in my profession... and I've have been plenty pissed if somebody gave me bogus model numbers, or colluded with a bunch of their buddies to charge me a higher price. That's called price-fixing; it's illegal under anti-trust laws. You can be sued for triple damages AND attorneys fees.

so smart that fox

[Soundy 1]

So wait... Customer comes in for a quote, and tells you he's comparing quotes... And at some later time you see he has CCTV installed...

 

You are saying that he used your expertise that you put in your quote to purchase the gear you specified and install it himself, right?

 

How you you know he didn't just find a cheaper quote, like he said he was looking for?

 

Exactly. I had that happen to me a while back as well. Customer told me he was looking for a system which will meet certain specifications, I put together a quote after visiting his business, called him back for feedback, was told he is still "thinking about it", drove by a couple weeks later and he had cameras up. Big deal. It happens all the time for one reason or another and all I can do is make sure the people who pay me for the equipment I sell and install are happy with what they get then maybe they will pass on my name. Next!

 

The problem is more the ones who DON'T tell you they're getting multiple quotes, but instead get you to jump through all sorts of hoops and go to extreme lengths, wanting all the fine details, only to take that and buy everything themselves from eBay or something... basically making you do all their legwork while doing nothing to discourage the impression that they actually want to give you the business.

[tweak'e 0]

 

The problem is more the ones who DON'T tell you they're getting multiple quotes, but instead get you to jump through all sorts of hoops and go to extreme lengths, wanting all the fine details, only to take that and buy everything themselves from eBay or something... basically making you do all their legwork while doing nothing to discourage the impression that they actually want to give you the business.

 

simply don't give them the fine detail.

 

for another business we never used to put to much detail into the quotes. not because of reasons above but rather due to the fact the jobs always changed when you actually got into it.

if you spec things to hard in the quote can get you into crap when you have to use different gear to fix a problem.

[WRS_Mark 0]

The problem is more the ones who DON'T tell you they're getting multiple quotes, but instead get you to jump through all sorts of hoops and go to extreme lengths, wanting all the fine details, only to take that and buy everything themselves from eBay or something... basically making you do all their legwork while doing nothing to discourage the impression that they actually want to give you the business.

 

It's the nature of the business though. Fortunately, I am pretty lucky to have a customer base that is pretty decent about all that -probably due to my geographical location a hour away from Edmonton. But regardless, the way I look at it is that characters like that usually end up being more of a pain in the long run than the amount of money I would have made on the job would justify. One thing I am noticing more and more of is that I am getting calls for system repairs and replacements of the junk sold at certain sites and at certain "Big Box" stores which makes it easier to convince business owners that going for the cheapest price isn't the best practice.

[securitycamera 0]

CCTV systems are just perfect and they are mostly required, according to the security point it is always in demand so it is always better to find some good quality security system that solves your purpose.

 

Thanks!

[Sawbones 0]

It's the nature of the business though. Fortunately, I am pretty lucky to have a customer base that is pretty decent about all that -probably due to my geographical location a hour away from Edmonton. But regardless, the way I look at it is that characters like that usually end up being more of a pain in the long run than the amount of money I would have made on the job would justify. One thing I am noticing more and more of is that I am getting calls for system repairs and replacements of the junk sold at certain sites and at certain "Big Box" stores which makes it easier to convince business owners that going for the cheapest price isn't the best practice.

 

Oh yes.

 

I think anyone who has ever worked in customer service, or any type of job where they interact with the public knows EXACTLY the kind of customer you're talking about. High-maintenence, often manipulative, and never happy with anything you do. Even when you lean forward to do them a favor, or go the extra mile, it's never enough to make them happy.

 

Know the type... know them well.

[dejota 0]

I love hearing stuff like this. The same customer won't pull this same crap with Wal-Mart. Why? Becuase there's no middle men. The CCTV market is saturated with middle men/distributors/whatever you want to call them that each put their own markups in place.

 

If the market wasn't full of pit falls, traps and mark-ups maybe our customers wouldn't feel obligated to play that card. I have a really hard time feeling bad for this situation when the first person to jump on the posters bandwagon BRAGS about how his sales style is deceiving and tricky and is ADVISING other dealers/distributors/stores to do the same.

 

You can dish it but you can't take it? That's the story with most every middle man in the security industry I've come across. They want to mark up a product, pass on their customer service/tech-support and not fully educate themselves on the products they sell...all at a 50%-500% markup depending on what you dishonest dealers think you can get...yet can't handle a customer that doesn't want to pay more than he has too...Yes, it's somehow the customers fault for wanting the best price or for learning all he can, no matter how he does it. Many distributors want to sell their stuff for the most amount of money even if they don't "discourage the impression" that it doesn't get any cheaper. When you know the prices aren't the lowest you can't get pissed at the customer for playing poker with you...you did it to him before he walked in the door hypocrite!

 

This post turned out a bit different than I originally intended it, but looking through the eyes of a manufacturer the hypocritical nature of the responses to this post were getting over the top LOL!