Misleading Camera Specs

[nifter53 0]

As this is my 1st post, I'd like to say hi to all. I'm very new to the industry and this message board has been a great place for me to learn. So thanks to all that share their knowledge here.

 

So, after much reading about different security cameras, I find myself confused about the camera specs & features vs. price. For example 2 different manufactures will list identical specs but one is 1/2 the price.

 

Aesthetics, durability and longevity aside, will the image quality from a $200 1/4" Sony CCD 470TVL (ie. Bosch LTC1423-20 Flexidome) camera be roughly the same as a $50 1/4" Generic Chinese Sony CCD 470TVL camera.

 

Being new to the industry, I will not be offered corporate or government contracts that have big budgets. Instead, I will be out there doing coffee shops and small clothing boutiques (I’ve got to start somewhere). I'm looking for sound advice about what to look for and what to avoid when looking at different camera manufactures.

 

Thanks very much!

[Soundy 1]

Welcome aboard!

 

This really is an industry where "you get what you pay for", and when you pay more for a camera, there's a lot more to it than the sensor.

 

For example, there's the processing circuitry - the stuff that adds features like extended/wide dynamic range, low-light noise reduction, digital slow shutter, day/night mode switching, backlight compensation, bloom suppression, digital zoom, and so on (this is a generic list, btw, and not all features apply to the cameras you listed).

 

There's the "accessory" support, like auto-iris lens drivers, user-adjustable shutter speeds, serial-controlled onscreen menus, etc.

 

There's the quality of the housing - metal vs. plastic, Lexan vs. glass vs. plastic domes, weather sealing, etc.

 

There's the lens, if one is included (as it is with most bullet or dome cameras) - varifocal vs. fixed, auto-iris vs. not, and just the quality of the optics (particularly glass vs. plastic elements).

 

And there's the sensor itself: with the cheap camera, you don't know what sort of manufacturing quality you're getting. They may be using "factory-second" chips (those that didn't pass the manufacturer's initial QC checks). They may simply be made to lower standards, or with looser tolerances. Or they may be just fine... but that's the chance you're taking.

 

And of course, if you're sourcing from eBay suppliers, there's the standard cautions there - are you actually getting what you think you're ordering? What if you get a bad camera that needs to be returned under warranty? Will you need to pay your own shipping? So many ifs that you don't have when paying more at a local supplier or reputable online seller.

 

So yes, you can set your customers up with the $50 cameras and they'll PROBABLY work fine for them... just make sure to "manage their expectations" so they don't come back later wondering why they can't zoom in on the reflection from a dine-and-dash customer's spoon to see the name on their driver's license, like they'd do on CSI (which you won't get with the $200 Bosch either, BTW).

[tsd 0]

Hi There Welcome to CCTV Business

 

Yes there is always a difference in quality and price when comparing Branded to Unbranded

Branded make sure what they mention on specs do deliver in the product with good customer support and warranty

Unbranded there is less than 10% chance of getting specs to be true and price is surely lower.

Learning between branded and unbranded and again under branded which brand is a learning process

Keeping in mind what project you have what are the expectation of the buyer budget wise and what he wants to see via CCCTV System, than how much you want to make and how much time it will take to complete the job all this will lead to make informed decision and you will get better job after job.

It’s always good to start with small jobs and in your case I would recommend compare price within branded camera and look that is close to the price with unbranded camera and buy branded least you know what you are proposing to your clients.

[Soundy 1]

Unbranded there is less than 10% chance of getting specs to be true

 

Yeah, that's an important point too - no-name stuff, the specs they list may not necessarily be accurate or truthful.

[rory 0]

What they said, plus there can be a huge diff between a small brand's specs and a big brand's specs and their accuracy. Although I use specs in general to decide what kind of camera it is, I still dont trust it unless Ive tested it, even the big brands dont always have it right, and even the big brands buy OEM in many cases.

[nifter53 0]

Thanks for the feedback!

 

It seems to me that this industry (like so many others) have been infiltrated by knock-offs and false claims. It would be great to see a section where we could post up screenshots of actual setups/actual camera images:

 

1) the cameras in action (mabe at different times of the day)- blur faces or empty rooms

2) the DVR interface (i know there is already a sction for this one)

3) a camera layout diagram (showing coverage and strategy)

 

Then post what products that were used and any pros/cons/costs

 

I know I'd like to be able to post my 1st few simple setups to get some professional feedback. I'd proably have to get written permission from the store owner(s). I'm also not sure about other potential liabilities. Has this been brought up before?

 

Thoughts?

[zmxtech 0]

youbuy youbuy my camera work really-long-time 100000Watts of power

infa-wed many kilometers

 

[Soundy 1]

Thanks for the feedback!

 

It seems to me that this industry (like so many others) have been infiltrated by knock-offs and false claims.

 

Ain't that the truth! Same goes for DVRs as well.

 

It would be great to see a section where we could post up screenshots of actual setups/actual camera images:

 

1) the cameras in action (mabe at different times of the day)- blur faces or empty rooms

 

There's a thread for this as well, at least for megapixel cameras, as well as numerous samples of different cameras in various individual threads.

 

Part of the problem is, there are SO many different types of cameras and their performance is affected by SO many different things... add in that most better cameras allow at least some level of user-adjustment than can significantly affect the image quality... you could compare some generalities, but it's difficult to really quantify a lot of what you're showing.

 

I know I'd like to be able to post my 1st few simple setups to get some professional feedback. I'd proably have to get written permission from the store owner(s). I'm also not sure about other potential liabilities. Has this been brought up before?

 

Thoughts?

 

People do this from time to time... usually posting diagrams and asking for camera positioning advice.

 

As long as you don't post any store ID info (name, address, etc.), I don't see that the owners would have any problem with you sharing diagrams of your setups. Blur out any faces or other identifying info on any camera stills, too, of course.

[nifter53 0]

I've gone and done just as you suggested. But...seems I need a minimum of 5 posts to be able to link to the images.

 

so... here's post 3

[nifter53 0]

Finally,

 

Here's the images and layout. The store is about 25'x35', 3 cameras were used with a PC based DVR. I'm hoping to get some critical views on (1) Image Quality, (2) System Design (I know it's a very basic design).

 

Thanks for your comments!

 

CAM 2&3

1/3" SONY Super HAD CCD

Lens: 3.6mm

420 TVL

24 IR LED

0Lux/F1.2 (IR ON)

 

TILL CAM

1/3" SONY Super HAD CCD

520 TVL

4mm~9mm Vari-focul, Auto Iris Lens

S/N Ratio:More than 48dB

IR LED Unit:36 IR LED

Synchronous System:Internal, Negative sync.

Auto Electronic Shutter:NTSC: 1/60s~1/100,000s

Gamma:R=0.45

Video Output:1Vpp, 75Ω

 

 

DVR CARD

frame rate: 120 fps

H.264

resolution(s): 640 X 480, 352 X 288, 320 X 240

Compression ratio: average 150M/C/H

 

 

And Some ScreenShots

 

330AM

 

730AM

 

330PM

 

450PM

 

Layout

[Biphase 0]

Each manufacturer has their "OWN" specs on the datasheets....

 

but you have to look at when you buy a camera - what comes along with it - support, the warranty....etc.

[IRCCTV 0]

Not all CCTV equipment is created equal, in fact there are many options that offer varying performance much like the automobile industry. In the world of CCTV you can find the equivalent of a $2,000 golf cart and a $350,000 Ferrari and everything in between. Both have 4 wheels but that's where the similarities end, it’s under the hood that counts.

 

Just like any other consumer electronic in the end you get what you pay for. Most retailers and sellers make about a 40-80% profit margin, this is after costs like shipping and overhead. That means when you buy a product that costs $100.00 the manufacturer usually has only spent $30 to build it which simply means it’s not a good product and will probably have a working life of about 2 months. There is a reason these products are 1/10 of the price of good and reliable DVR brand names. The type of seller these products attract are online sellers (ebay) and will make profits margins as low as 4% which means they can’t afford to offer good service or allow for RMAs (returns). Cheap products are like disposable razors they are NOT designed to last for a long time and you will end up replacing them every 2 months.

 

Now some products can be made cheaply like ipod cases, screen protectors, and other simple products with no moving parts or electronics. DVRs need to be good quality as they run 24/7 (20X more than the average electronic device) and process anywhere from 30-480 frames per second which in a year is over 15 billion images, and a good DVR should last 4-5 years.

 

 

also Most cheap produxts are made in China and Taiwan and there specs are to say the least not always accurate.

 

Stick to good name brands.

 

Also as far as night vision or IR cameras go most do not give good images in the dark. Many companies claim good night vision but there are only a handful of brands who give night vision over 30 feet out doors. normally if a cameras is rated 150 feet of IR it will give you ok images at 30 feet at night and good images at about 20 if rated for 60 feet you might get 15 indoors and will be useless outdoors.

 

Some good CCTV brands that I recommend are Bosch, Pelco, Honeywell and Ascendent.

 

 

I would post links to there website but cant.

 

Economical DVR's

Two good economical DVRs I would recommend are Ascendent's AVP-4120 DVR or Pelco's DX-4000. They will allow you to view all your cameras instantly from anywhere in the world using either IE, or a client software. The AVP-4120 uses the latest H.264 codec to improve streaming and recording time, and will allow PCs and Apple computers to remotely view cameras. These are the DVRs I would recommend that are good quality and affordable from companies who stand behind there products.

 

Again if you are going to buy cheap CCTV products save money and get dummy cameras they are just as affective and you will be less disappointed.

 

Best Regads