rory 0 Posted April 12, 2005 I dont think they will go that low though. normally 50% is the norm .. but it would be up to them.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MetzLyov 0 Posted April 13, 2005 Rory, I do not think you understand the true "Brand" value when you state that "none of these brand will pay the bills".. I can also see that you like GE Security DVRs, which in many cases you refer to as "Kalatel" DVRs...Guess what, we have been doing it for over 15 years and so far did not touch any second or third tier manufacturers... Only recently I have been reading about IView and hopefully we will carry them through Herm.... It all depends who your customers are, regardless if they are dealers or end users... I may understand the cheaper products are more accesible to much larger masses, but if you catering a specific group of customers that will never touch anything that is not a major brand, then you do not have much of any choice... Yes, Sanyo has been behind the curve more so than everyone else. The pricing was higher than usual, but they are changing and they want to compete specially with GE DVRs and DVRs from Bosch. We have a good knowledge where their limitations are, but has nothing to do with picture quality, rather overall frame rate available per box.. and this is changing also... Most of the majors already are using 120FPS DVRs, however, if you look around, smaller manufacturers are pushing the overall FPS to 480, thus keep pushing the envelope, therefore all the majors are following... Like in any other industry, if smaller companies do not come up with newer and better technologies, the majors will never change.. Levon Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DataAve 0 Posted April 13, 2005 MetzLyov, Great pricing on those wall/ceiling mounts. Will consider next time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rory 0 Posted April 13, 2005 Rory, I do not think you understand the true "Brand" value when you state that "none of these brand will pay the bills".. None of the brands will pay the bills for most of us installers. Distributors may do okay due to quantity of sales, but most people we deal with just cant afford the brands. I wish they could so that would be all i would need to sell. I dont like the GE Kalatel DVRs, but I sell them for those that can afford them, as they are one of the best stand alone RTOS DVR right now for plug Play and Forget, IMO .. costly, but darn good and strong. I call them Kalatel because thats what they were before GE ruined the game. Rory Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DataAve 0 Posted April 13, 2005 Kalatel use to be a big name in cctv business. We have alot systems we are upgrading still running with Kalatel equipment installed many years ago. There old stuff lasted forever, solid. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MetzLyov 0 Posted April 14, 2005 Rory, Did you read my comments? You made a statement and I gave you my side of the story, which is again, dependent who your customers are. I will never dispute cost effectiveness of any hardware, nor I stated that it is wrong to use them.... Rather, when you are dealing only with major brand manufacturers, then customers that want them will never change. This is called marketing, long term research and experience and specially who you know, rather what you know! Are you telling me that if you are given an opportunity to work on large scale project that uses nothing but major brand product line, that you will decline or are you saying that you know that you will not make enouph money? Rory, experience will be your best guide in life and not only in the business. Always watch and learn and there is nothing wrong to ask questions and belive me there are no stupid questions in the business.... rather not enouph knowledge.... and as for Kalatel (which actually GE Security), make a habit to use the correct manufacturer names and products names... anyone who does not know will be confused as hell.... Levon Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
qman 0 Posted April 14, 2005 He got a good point there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MetzLyov 0 Posted April 14, 2005 Herm, Thanks, Levon Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rory 0 Posted April 14, 2005 (edited) Kalatel Baby... Ahhhh. I can call them whatever I want, thanks. Clients dont know who GE or Kalatel is anyway. LEts call them GE for your sake though. But i Dont see what you are saying. Are you saying if I had the chance to use a GE DVR in a job I wouldnt use it?? Ofcourse I would and I do, and i HAVE, but there are not enough jobs using the big boys stuff, GE, Bosch, etc, whatever, to pay bills, definately not in My country, and I imagine not in most poor areas of the USA. As for the GE cameras, some of the GBC stuff are the worst I have seen, especially for the price, ive used a bunch of them and would never again. I use the best product for the application, not just because it is branded by GE or whoever. If Bosch has the best Low Light Color Id use that, while if say AcmeCCTV came out with the best PTZ id use that. Experience HAS shown me a brand name means very little when it comes to support and quality. Dont believe anything a manufacturer says in a Datasheet, try it yourself first. Rory Edited April 14, 2005 by Guest Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
G22 0 Posted April 14, 2005 no no no, as per my recent dream... it be... Kalatel-Rory, ooh-ahh Kalatel-Rory, ooh-ahh ... Kalatel-Rory, ooh-ahh Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VJD 0 Posted April 14, 2005 Better keep those dreams to yourself. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rory 0 Posted April 14, 2005 Better keep those dreams to yourself. yah know .. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
G22 0 Posted April 14, 2005 Had one bout you to VJD... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
G22 0 Posted April 14, 2005 ... someone was a fiddlin with yer cameras and dongles. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VJD 0 Posted April 14, 2005 Just as long as it wasn't you! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
G22 0 Posted April 14, 2005 No, It was Rory! He was disguised as a Kalatel DVR. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MetzLyov 0 Posted April 14, 2005 Rory, I do not think you are getting my point, but that is ok.... You are a very young and agressive in what you know and belive in and I can respect that. But... Since you do not have a real experience with the majors due to whatever reasons that you face, try to be very curtious when you are commenting on specific products and specially from the majors... If you do not believe the spec sheets published by the majors, then what you are trying to relay is that the majors are playing a some sort of a game and belive me when I tell you - THEY DO NOT! Show me a spec of any product that majors make and give me a technological explanation and engineering reasoning and then I will evaluate it using my background and the engineering experience to confirm! If there is such an evidence that you can come up, you can start a major class action lawsuit against such major manufacturer for misrepresentation of their products and intentional fraud... Can you??? I can bet you whatever you want that you can not... When majors place a new product in the market, is not only that it just a new product, but they have an army of lawyers that make sure that it is and that is why each product they place in the market, it is patented or modified patent that belongs to them... Case and point: only few weeks ago Panasonic came up with SDIII technology that is different and guess what, will you dispute their latest specs??? As for if you like or dislike certain products from such majors, well, we all have our favorites and the ones we hate, but it does not mean that such products were misreprented... It is a good business specially in this forum to call the names of the products correctly and the names of the manufacturers specially. Afterall, there are many members that do not know what you know, thus it can mislead the topic and they can start searching for products or manufacturers that do not exist. Levon Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rory 0 Posted April 14, 2005 (edited) The GE Ultraview is the worse camera I have used to date! And a total waste of money. Trust me they all twist the truth, ALL manufacturers, and even alot of their REPS. In fact most reps and distributors dont even know half of their products as they sell soo many. The GE Ultraview specs say it works in difficult lighting conditions ..well guess what, it only works properly with alot of light. In dim lighting its darker than a normal 1 lux camera, and if you mess with the settings you get a horrible artificial image. Ive put in 3 of them and gave up after the third one. As for Pano, cant say as I havent tried it yet. Sanyo just looks Old and Cheap as far as their DVRs go, I personally would never buy one of them. Their cameras are fine. Edited April 14, 2005 by Guest Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rory 0 Posted April 14, 2005 (edited) When majors place a new product in the market, is not only that it just a new product, but they have an army of lawyers that make sure that it is and that is why each product they place in the market, it is patented or modified patent that belongs to them... Why would I care what they patent or dont patent?? And why would i want to sue them because they twist the truths ..???? I couldnt care less, I just dont buy that product again and I buy another model. Anyway, Im not making money off the "majors" like you guys, and never will down here, ill stick to selling what is value for money for my clients and also the best product in the industry for that particular application, doesnt matter what brand it is, if its good and i have tested it, then I sell it. Edited April 14, 2005 by Guest Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rory 0 Posted April 14, 2005 It is a good business specially in this forum to call the names of the products correctly and the names of the manufacturers specially. Afterall, there are many members that do not know what you know, thus it can mislead the topic and they can start searching for products or manufacturers that do not exist. Actually we are not here to serve anyone, we are just here for fun and information. If we help someone in the time we are here then fine, but im not going out of my way to change my language for someone else who is not paying my bills. Everything that everyone posts on this Forum is just Opinions, not facts, and I am sure the visitors understand that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DataAve 0 Posted April 14, 2005 I just want to know where I can get "one of them" AcmeCCTV PTZ"s Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cooperman 0 Posted April 14, 2005 Hey rory, I think the point MetzLyov is trying to get across is actually quite an interesting one. As this is a global forum, with members of differing abilities spread around the world, the markets and conditions are inevitably going to vary whether they're in the States, Australia, UK or the Bahamas (or indeed anywhere else in between). As a highly respected member of the forum, there is inevitably a degree of responsibility that whatever you (or for that matter any of us) post, is reasonably accurate in content. Sure it's not meant to be hard work, but look at how many people you've helped with your advice and comments thus far. Of course, any posting is inevitably opinion rather than necessarily concrete fact, but for the benefit of those guys who are less clued up on this technology, it doesn't really hurt to try and be accurate when discussing specific makes and models. After all, you've got shed loads of equipment over there which we will never see. Likewise, there is a wide range of products this side of the pond, which will rarely if ever manage to cross the Atlantic. Hands up anyone who knows what a "Metal Mickey" is....? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rory 0 Posted April 14, 2005 I dont think he gets it though, that it is still known world wide as kalatel: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Kalatel&btnG=Google+Search Just like Kalatel calls their premier, value, ultra lines GBC as they bought the GBC name ... before GE bought them. I say GE Kalatel as that identifies that it is their CCTV dept, since the company GE is soo huge. Metal Mickey' was a robot built by young science-boffin Ken Wilberforce Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MetzLyov 0 Posted April 14, 2005 May be only in Bahamas, Rory... In these parts of the world, GE Security is what people know and everyone knows that Kalatel is dead... You still are not getting my point, but then again, you are entitled to your own opinions... I respect the owners of this forum who have done a tremendous job to create it and everyone who participates and this allows a share of very valuable information, which otherwise is not easily attainable... I agree with Cooperman that this is a global forum and that there are much we learn about what is happening in CCTV throughout the world... If all you want to do just push an opinion and not facts, then what are we doing here? You want people to respect your "opinions", you must be direct to the point and be ready to substantiate your position, so that the information flow does not end up elsewhere.... and there is nothing wrong to ask and learn everyday... Heck, after over 25 years in this business, I still learn everyday and I did learn about newer products through this forum, which would not have been available to me personally by other means. And, I thank for everyone who made all the contributions so far to make this forum what it is - A TRUE SOURCE TO GET REAL ANSWERS TO REAL PROBLEMS! Levon Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DataAve 0 Posted April 15, 2005 I am an installer, and we still call them Kalatels. When we talk GE, Kalatel always comes up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
