Camera UL listing

[thewireguys 3]

I just got off the phone with my Panasonic Rep and he was telling me that there cameras are UL listed. Then he told me a story that the was an install with non UL listed cameras that had to be removed (because of the inspector) and they replaced them with Panasonic equipment.

 

So I went and looked at my cameras setting on my work bench and none of them have a UL listing.

 

Feedback?

[buellwinkle 0]

Does it have the CE mark on the back? That's the equivalent of UL, different certification company and accepted more worldwide.

[survtech 0]

UL listing basically means nothing for low voltage equipment. Perhaps in a very few places (NYC?), but I've never heard of an inspector requiring UL listing for either 12VDC or 24VAC equipment.

 

Don't believe everything your rep tells you!

[cglaeser 0]

I just got off the phone with my Panasonic Rep and he was telling me that there cameras are UL listed. Then he told me a story that the was an install with non UL listed cameras that had to be removed (because of the inspector) and they replaced them with Panasonic equipment.

 

Was the failed equipment line voltage or low voltage?

 

Best,

Christopher

[zmxtech 0]

your cameras have failed my BS rating you will have to replace them all.....

[Soundy 1]

UL listing MIGHT be required by some areas' electrical codes, or by certain industries (like, if you were putting them in a lab or gas-processing facility or something, I dunno) but I've never run across an instance that required it. We do new installs for two of Canada's largest oil companies, both in-store and at the pumps, and they've never asked for or spec'd UL listing on their cameras. We've installed some equipment that requires UL certification, usually as a component of the building code, but it's never been an issue with the cameras.

 

I don't doubt the Panasonic rep's story, but I'd certainly ask for more specifics as to the exact situation surrounding it.

[rory 0]

Ahh. More BS from the reps... love it .. those guys rock man ...

[survtech 0]

Was the failed equipment line voltage or low voltage?

 

Best,

Christopher

Read it again. No equipment failed; just some inspector required UL listing. BTW, who was your rep?

[cglaeser 0]

Was the failed equipment line voltage or low voltage?

 

Best,

Christopher

Read it again. No equipment failed; just some inspector required UL listing.

 

In California, we say this or that "failed" to pass inspection, or simply "failed" inspection. Regarding the equipment that, pick one of the following:

 

1) failed inspection, or

2) did not pass inspection or

3) the inspector did not get paid enough, or

4) whatever you call it in your neck of the woods,

 

was it low voltage?

 

Best,

Christopher

[Voipmodo 0]

for low voltage stuff, if the poe switch or injector is ul listed, does that make the ip cameras then covered?

[survtech 0]

for low voltage stuff, if the poe switch or injector is ul listed, does that make the ip cameras then covered?

I don't believe that is the case. I believe the UL wants every separate piece of the system, including cable, listed. Here's an example:

 

UL warns of communication cable with unauthorized UL Marks

Northbrook, Ill., USA -- November 5, 2009 -- Underwriters Laboratories (UL) is notifying consumers, manufacturers, regulatory agencies and authorities having jurisdiction that the Communication Cable, identified below, bears an unauthorized UL Mark for the United States and Canada. This product has not been evaluated by UL to the appropriate standards for safety for the United States and Canada, and is not authorized to bear the UL Mark. It is unknown if this product complies with the United States or Canadian safety requirements.

 

Name of product: Siamese CCTY Coax Cable - CM 2/18 AWG + RG59/U

[Soundy 1]

My understanding is that UL listing means only that the specific component has passed certain test specific to that equipment... sort of a "quality control" designation. Meanwhile, UL requirements for installations are only as required by electrical or building codes and generally only apply to specific pieces of equipment. It doesn't automatically mean that every piece of an installation has to be listed, only if it's specifically called for by the code.

 

Case in point, when we used to do analog cameras for gas pumps, some sites required the use of video-loss detectors (so if a particular camera went down, the pump it was monitoring would shut off). By building code, those detectors had to be UL-listed; however, NOTHING else in the system required the UL mark (most of it HAD it, but none of it REQUIRED it).

 

Interestingly, as far as the detectors went, the UL testing only applied to the power supply, nothing else in it. Rather than submit their units to an extensive certification process, the designers simply used an external, off-the-shelf, UL-listed wall-wart power supply... and that's all that was required.

[survtech 0]

Soundy, technically you are correct.

 

But in actuality, the Panasonic installer may have run into two issues: some inspectors tend to go overboard, depending on who they work for and their degree of a_holiness; and UL would prefer that everything under the sun be submitted to them for testing.

 

A good case in point is rope lights. Many are manufactured with indicators that designate where to cut them to length. They can be cut at intervals determined by where the short strings are connected to the main power wires in the rope. Electrical contractors supposedly can buy them at electrical supply stores but the consumer can not.

 

The NEC allows trimming and splicing but the UL does not. Since hardware stores don't want to take a chance, they only carry UL listed rope lights.

[thewireguys 3]

Interesting discussion on UL camera requirements on Linkedin

 

http://www.linkedin.com/groupAnswers?discussionID=8341115&viewQuestionAndAnswers=&gid=1300007

 

Also Mobotix M cameras are now UL listed

[Soundy 1]

Interesting discussion on UL camera requirements on Linkedin

 

http://www.linkedin.com/groupAnswers?discussionID=8341115&viewQuestionAndAnswers=&gid=1300007

 

Also Mobotix M cameras are now UL listed

 

"Sorry you are not a member of the group you are trying to access." - but it doesn't tell me what group that actually is!

[thewireguys 3]

Interesting discussion on UL camera requirements on Linkedin

 

http://www.linkedin.com/groupAnswers?discussionID=8341115&viewQuestionAndAnswers=&gid=1300007

 

Also Mobotix M cameras are now UL listed

 

"Sorry you are not a member of the group you are trying to access." - but it doesn't tell me what group that actually is!

 

Yea I know....... http://www.linkedin.com

[Soundy 1]

I know the URL for LinkedIn, I have a profile there... this still doesn't tell me the name of the particular group. There are a few dozen that come up on a search for "CCTV"...

[thewireguys 3]

I know the URL for LinkedIn, I have a profile there... this still doesn't tell me the name of the particular group. There are a few dozen that come up on a search for "CCTV"...

 

sorry it's IPvideomarket.info

[survtech 0]

Actually, it's the "IP Video Market Info" group.

[sinbad 0]

Don't know if his rep BS or not but it happened to us once.

I was failed inspection because of non UL cameras. that's in Sunrise Florida but they known as bi&%^ with inspections.

 

We used Nuvico's CV-S and the EV4000 DVR. very neat install. the inspector wanted to see a UL label on the cameras and the DVR too, the sticker on the DVR transformer was good for the transformer only in his opinion.

he even called his boss and checked if that DVR is on the UL listed list he have somewhere online and confirmed with him that it must be UL.

 

but that's happened only once and only in Sunrise, other cities here are easier and not looking to fail you for BS, just looking to see that your installation is up to code and you good to go.

 

from what I understand the whole UL thing on electronics is more about the fee UL charge the mfg per each model they want to get listed, and if that's true than demanding it as part of code is no no.

[photonz89 0]

Newbie here, but spent awhile today looking into this exact issue, but with 12V LED strips. I believe this is essentially the same issue. We had an install in Chicago that got rejected on the grounds that the 12V devices, even though they were on Class 2 circuits, needed to have certification. I did more digging and the best I could find was a couple of blogs such as this one https://www.led-strip.lighting/do-led-strips-require-ul-listing that touch on this but no real answer. Anyone here find a definitive answer from any UL reps or AHJs?

[Compliance Engineer 0]

DC products do require NRTL certification in the USA and Canada.  There are lesser requirements for products that are supplied by SELV or ES1 low voltage and current limited sources vs. AC Mains products, but “UL” (NRTL listing or recognition) does apply.  For example, a SELV/ES1 powered product may be able to use a plastic enclosure with a UL 94 flame class of HB vs. the V-1 required for an enclosure that must meet the requirements of a Fire Enclosure.  Products powered solely by ordinary alkaline or carbon batteries do not require NRTL listing.

On the subject of CE marking, this mark is not the equivalent of an NRTL mark.  That is a common misconception.  CE is a self-declaration meaning the manufacture certifies the equipment meets the safety and EMC requirements for Europe.  It only has weight in Europe and unlike with NRTL Listed products, the European safety mark does not require regular factory inspections to ensure the marked product is still being manufactured with the same critical components that led to a safety approval in the first place.